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Robert Howlett
Prolific User
Username: bobhowlett

Post Number: 104
Registered: 9-2010
Posted on Monday, 21 October, 2013 - 08:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi gents and ladies got to be politics correct these day I cant spell the right word for the females. But anyway I have a noisy lifter in pot 7,I changed the oil today with Fuchs full syndetic from Fuchs mineral oil and the lifter pumped up and quiet down not like the rest though.D0 you guys think the spring inside is weak or broken
or gum deposits
cheers
rob
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Ernest Carty
Experienced User
Username: edcarty

Post Number: 28
Registered: 12-2012
Posted on Monday, 21 October, 2013 - 08:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

It is possibly only a weak lifter that coiuld be clogged up but BEWARE as this is at the rear of the Engine it could be a sign of OIL starvation to the CAMSHAFT,DID you give the Engine a good flushing out before you changed to fully Synthetic?hope this helps
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Jan Forrest
Grand Master
Username: got_one

Post Number: 513
Registered: 1-2008
Posted on Tuesday, 22 October, 2013 - 09:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I appreciate how many would want the 'best' available lubricants for their pride & joy RR/B, but I've never seen the need for an expensive fully synthetic oil in an old car. Some have even found these modern oils to be counterproductive in pre-2000 engines! You can't beat the overall effect of using a much cheaper semi-synthetic and changing it often. I'm an 'old school' self-trained mechanic so I change the oil in all my cars at 3K miles (5K klicks) intervals or 6 months - whichever comes sooner - with a full flush and filter change. Any 10W40 or 15W40 s/s oil should be more than adequate.

As for the noisy hydraulic follower (tappet): Yes, there is a spring inside which might lose its temper or break, but a more likely cause of just one becoming noisy (especially just after an oil change) is a blocked gallery inside the assembly preventing a full flow of oil. The manual advises removing the assembly, stripping it down and washing it thoroughly in paraffin/kerosene before reassembling and refitting it. As this is a mammoth task overall compared to the actual work required I would advise trying to flush out any offending gunge first. Drain off a couple of litres of the oil and replace it with diesel fuel. Run the engine at idle for a couple of minutes with several blips of the throttle to make the oil pressure 'kick' up a bit. Now drain the sump and refill with fresh oil. If the blockage wasn't too bad it should have been flushed away. Job done.
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Richard Treacy
Grand Master
Username: richard_treacy

Post Number: 2932
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Tuesday, 22 October, 2013 - 11:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Robert,

Does it go dead quiet after the motor warms, maybe 3-5 minutes at worst ? If so, forget it. It will clear itself. One day. Suddenly. Unnoticed. Like a wart on a child’s hand. Crewe states that a 15 minute duration is OK, but that would be annoying albeit safe.

A couple of years ago my Turbo R had a tappet-lifter-follower cracking noise for around 2 minutes on starting when cold overnight and I was worried, but about a week later it went completely quiet and has been so ever since. I put the clearance of the temporary annoyance clearing itself down to using synthetic engine oil. Tappet noise is also random depending on which valve is open when the motor is stopped and let to go cold, and I have never seen a correlation between noisy lifters and which one (front, rear, A-Bank, B-Bank). Just a temporary little crud in any lifter will cause cold stickiness.

BTW, synthetic oil prices have crashed so low these days that cost is not really an issue. In Australia, Penrite has a full range at less than $10/litre compared to Mobil 1 at $20 retail. I have moved away from Mobil 1 0W30 or 5W50 with a guilty conscience as the other brands of synthetic oils are so much cheaper. 5W40 is good, and I now use it in my R, T, Turbo R and Conti R. Change the filter at 10,000km and the oil at 30,000km and you are overdoing it. A Crewe V8 is good for 40,000km oil changes if used as a daily driver with synthetic oil, whilst semi-synthetics are just bad news all round. Mineral oil needs changing at 10k max. Mineral oil is OK for an occasional car, but not great for engine life when it comes to km driven. In the 1950s Crewe prided itself in 100,000 miles between overhauls, but synthetic oils make that a very lame target. The same applies to transmissions: the Elf G3 SYN synthetic I always use will extend the transmission life enormously, but at $300 for a fill not too many owners take it up and use Dexron III instead.

RT.
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David Gore
Moderator
Username: david_gore

Post Number: 1344
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Wednesday, 23 October, 2013 - 08:36 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Richard,

If you think the Elf G3 SYN is expensive, have a look at the cost of the oil used in the VW, Audi and Bugatti Veyron DSG transmissions.

I think it is between $50/100 per litre depending on the dealer, 6 litres are required and has to be changed every 30,000Km.
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Robert Howlett
Prolific User
Username: bobhowlett

Post Number: 105
Registered: 9-2010
Posted on Wednesday, 23 October, 2013 - 06:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi guys
I took your advice .I came home from work drained the oil and made a 50/50 mix of clean oil and diesel and run for 5 mins.I must say the sludge was quite thick and black I drifted a super strong magnet over the sludge and no metal partials where found PHEW. It must have been gum build up. The lifter is quiet as a church mouse now.Its much quieter than my coin balance stunt where you can here the tick on a hot motor.

many thanks for the advice
cheers
rob
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Jan Forrest
Grand Master
Username: got_one

Post Number: 514
Registered: 1-2008
Posted on Wednesday, 23 October, 2013 - 07:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Glad it's worked out well for you - and so quickly. We've been having quite a contentious argument recently on another car forum about the pros and cons of flushing an engine. Especially with diesel fuel. On there I'm pretty much a lone voice shouting at the wind. There's even one member who claims that a single flush with a proprietary flushing agent trashed the engine in his Ford Capri! The most irritating part of it is that most of the cars owned on that site are old-style diesels which produce massive quantities of sump oil contaminants. Since they're only available outside Japan as 'grey imports' they tend to be 15+ years old with almost intergalactic mileages on the clock. As such many owners scrimp on oil changes or just don't know that a 12,000 mile oil won't last more than a 3,000 mile oil and just leave it in the sump far too long. Incidentally the perceived wisdom on there is that a 10W40 is the oil of choice for these engines. When I ran my first iteration of one of these vehicles I found after a series of high speed runs covering ~650 klicks in 24 hours that the level in the sump had dropped below the 'MIN' mark on the dipstick. I topped up with a litre each of 15W40 and 20W50 as that was all that was available and changed to 15W40 as soon as I got home again. The car never used a single drop of oil after that even on 1,000 klick high speed runs.

No matter how 'clean' an engine may be there will always be some combustion byproducts which will worm their way past the piton rings and into the sump oil. That's why all oils contain a certain amount of surfactant (detergent): To keep the particulate matter in suspension so that it doesn't form a sludge at the bottom of the sump. Unfortunately it doesn't always work as well as it might and not only does a sludge build up, but it can become viscous enough to defy being brought back into suspension when the engine is running and/or being flushed. This is why I flush a 'new' second hand motor through at least twice on the first service after buying it - and maybe more if I don't like the colour of the second flush! After that I flush once every subsequent oil change and usually the new oil will stay looking clean all the way to the next change. Not, however, in my diesel car which can turn the oil black in a couple of hundred klicks!
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Robert Howlett
Prolific User
Username: bobhowlett

Post Number: 106
Registered: 9-2010
Posted on Wednesday, 23 October, 2013 - 08:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Jan
I totally agree with you when it comes to dirty Oil. My brother has a fleet of pretty new twin cab turbo diesel's for his mining business. Its mandatory to have them serviced at ridiculous short intervals and the oil is always black and sludgy.The workers have to do a walk around at every start up and log the condition of the engine fluids. Most report black condition of engine oil even though it was changed 200ks ago.

Richards take on the noisy lifter was great too. For a little while I thought something was broken like he describes a sharp cracking noise on start up exactly the same as he described with his car but after 10 nail biting minuets she would quiet down run lumpy then smooth out. Always worried about bending a push rod or something.Their a tough old "DONK" and maybe I don't need to be so anal about rattles and ticks ..Your opinion on upper cylinder eg' morleys or redx firezone and such am I wasting money?

cheers
rob
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richard george yeaman
Prolific User
Username: richyrich

Post Number: 135
Registered: 4-2012
Posted on Wednesday, 23 October, 2013 - 08:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi All.
I am about to do an oil change having read all the above has left me less confident in how to do this job correctly.
1. What ratio of flushing agent to oil.
2.Whether to use Fully synthetic, Semi synthetic. Or Mineral oil bearing in mind that SRH19529 has 110+ thousand miles on His clock although apart from the Clicks and Taps it runs very well.
I also have new oil to change the final drive (diff) and would like your views on flushing and going about this job correctly and safely.

Richard.
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Richard Treacy
Grand Master
Username: richard_treacy

Post Number: 2933
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Wednesday, 23 October, 2013 - 09:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Flushing ? This is 2013 not 1933. Flushing is a bit like cleaning oil off a white shirt with cold water.

Leave well alone. Stable sludge will stay that way. Like a sleeping dog, don't tread on its tail.

These are real cars and don't need magic treatment. If you are worried about sludge, take care or you will have a large job to do. Easiest is to remove the sump and to scrape it out. Better is to dismantle the motor and clean everything while rebuilding it. Simply loosening the sludge with a flushing agent will allow a small fraction to exit upon draining and the rest of the sludge to propagate through the rest of the system over the coming months. At that point the motor will stillbe worse off medium-term than before the flushing programme commenced. Bad news.

Change the oil hot and, as with any motor, if concerned run the motor for 10 seconds after the oil has drained to clear the galleries. Then replace the filter and refill with your oil of choice.

If you must use a flushing slurry, safest is to drain the slurry after about 10 minutes fitting a new filter and refilling with oil. Change the oil and filter again after about 20km and again after 1000km, but as you guess I would avoid flushing. Tedious, expensive and a waste of effort overall.

The final drive is simplest. Just drain and refill it.

Flushing agents, degreasers and fuels, petrol or diesel, are very unkind to the multitude of seals in your motor, especially the cylinder liner seals. Maybe OK on a 20-25 which has no liners and few oil seals, but certainly not on a Crewe V8.

RT.
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richard george yeaman
Prolific User
Username: richyrich

Post Number: 137
Registered: 4-2012
Posted on Wednesday, 23 October, 2013 - 10:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Thanks for that Richard. Certainly no ifs or buts in that statement, I think I will try a fully synthetic 10W40 and change it again in the spring and see how that goes.

Richard.
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Richard Treacy
Grand Master
Username: richard_treacy

Post Number: 2935
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Thursday, 24 October, 2013 - 12:39 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

David,


Your post on transmission fluids-oils is well noted. $300 for a transmission fill with synthetic G3 is not expensive at all. My brother just had the DSG Direkt-Schalt-Getriebe (Direct Shift Gearbox, Dual Shift Gearbox, DCT Dual Clutch Transmission etc) fluid changed as a small part of the service on his Audi. Mind you, the cost of the 7 litres of fluid was almost trivial in the bill for that regular service. Thank goodness spares and maintenance are so reasonable on our SY and SZ cars.

Arnage T ? Try $14,500 for a set of new tappets. That is the VW group influence on our Crewe V8s. Thanks VW. Take a marvellous Crewe v8 und ve kann vake eet besser, gell.


RT.
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Jan Forrest
Grand Master
Username: got_one

Post Number: 515
Registered: 1-2008
Posted on Thursday, 24 October, 2013 - 09:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I should have mentioned in my original response that when I flush the engine I remove the filter and drain it while the sump is draining. I then replace it along with the sump plug - finger tight is good enough for the moment - and add the flushing agent which these days is most likely to be filtered waste vegetable oil that would have otherwise been destined for the fuel tank of my diesel car. This is run around the engine for a couple of minutes before being drained. Obviously my home-made sump drainer is much larger than a standard 10 litre one since the Shadow takes almost that to fill the sump. I merely cut most of one side out of a heavy duty plastic 25 litre oil drum so that it has an effective volume of 20 litres before it becomes likely to slop over the top when being moved. If I don't like the colour of the flush as it drains I will repeat the process - including draining the filter - before I replace & torque up the sump plug, refill with oil and slap a new filter element in the housing. 2 flushes of 5 litres each means that the oil catcher is still not too full to move it and empty it into another drum for disposal.

Incidentally I am about to erect a 3.5 metre X 8 metre garage on my back garden to house the Shadow and form a decent workshop area for me to work on her protected from the worst of the elements. In the first instance I will be heating it with LPG which I have left over from converting my folding camper from 13 kilo (nett) bottles to the much lighter 4 kilos (gross) 'Camping Gaz" ones plus a huge 47 kilo bottle someone gave me with a little gas still left in it. When the gas runs out I'm in 2 minds as to how I will heat the garage. I have the plans, tools and (if I do say so myself) the skills to convert the larger bottle into either a wood-burner or a waste oil burner. Maybe both ... With 3 cars all needing oil changes twice per year (80 litres per year) plus the flushing oil I should have around 120 litres of oil which might last all Winter. On the other hand I have a virtually unlimited supply of free dead wood at hand just by wandering into a nearby small wooded area with my chainsaw.

NOTE: Anyone thinking along the same lines should note that turning an old gas bottle into anything else can be fraught with danger if not carried out correctly. In short once the bottle is 'empty' the valve must be completely removed and the bottle inverted and left to its own devices for at least a week! This is because both butane and propane are heavier than air and have little affinity for mixing with air unless encouraged to do so. It is also claimed that propane especially can migrate into the metal of the bottle so that any cutting, drilling or welding should only start with the bottle filled with water after being thoroughly drained of any remaining gas.
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richard george yeaman
Prolific User
Username: richyrich

Post Number: 139
Registered: 4-2012
Posted on Saturday, 26 October, 2013 - 10:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi got the oil changed I did the 50% oil & kerosene mix, Ran the car for about 5 or 6 minutes then drained it changed the filter and oil Castrol GTX 10wx40 SS running like a dream the oil is so clean you cant see it on the dip stick (All usual Disclaimers apply)

Richard.
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Robert Howlett
Prolific User
Username: bobhowlett

Post Number: 109
Registered: 9-2010
Posted on Sunday, 27 October, 2013 - 06:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

"Good Onya mate"sounds like it worked for you too. I don't recon its a good thing to do all the time but 3 or 4 times every ten years or so might be a good idea..

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