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Chris Miller
New User
Username: cjm51213

Post Number: 7
Registered: 5-2013
Posted on Tuesday, 18 June, 2013 - 09:04 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Folks,

The Paintball market has almost exactly the right gear to charge the accumulators. 48 cubic inch tanks @ 3,000 psi hold about 4 1/2 charges @ 1,000 psu, and you have to leave 1 1/2 charges in the tank, so there is a production of three charges, and that is pretty good. This equipment is not expensive, however, there is a problem.

The regulators output either 800 psi or 1,100 psi. Both are going to fall into equilibrium where the diaphragm is not in the design position, in one case reducing the volume of hydraulic fluid and in the other case reducing pressure response.

Obviously, 1,000 psi is best, but that doesn't seem to be an option. Please discuss.

Thanks for the help,

Chris.
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Brian Vogel
Grand Master
Username: guyslp

Post Number: 438
Registered: 6-2009
Posted on Tuesday, 18 June, 2013 - 09:17 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Chris,

Go for 1100. With the original ball bearing valve configuration you can always count on losing at least some pressure before you get the PTFE sphere and cap on.

Since the perpetual problem is that they slowly deplete of nitrogen charge I'd rather start 100 PSI high than 200 PSI low.

However, I'll note that our local paintball outfit is now using compressed, filtered, dried air, not nitrogen. Many welding supply places sell compressed nitrogen. Another option is checking with your local aircraft mechanics. They tend to work on accumulators for aircraft, all of which take nitrogen charge, and can probably point you to your local sources to get your bottle refilled.

Here's a document I put together based upon another person's recharging setup, which I've now "fallen heir" to since he's no longer doing his own work. And here's one on building your own hydraulic pressure gauge.

Brian
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Geoff Wootton
Prolific User
Username: dounraey

Post Number: 216
Registered: 5-2012
Posted on Tuesday, 18 June, 2013 - 10:21 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Chris

My vote is for 1100 psi also.

When you have decided which paintball tank to buy, if you have not already done so, could you post a link to it. I am interested in setting up this type of charging station myself.

Geoff.
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Chris Miller
New User
Username: cjm51213

Post Number: 8
Registered: 5-2013
Posted on Tuesday, 18 June, 2013 - 11:04 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Geoff,

I am having a problem getting a clear answer. I'll try again tomorrow. A "48 cu in" tank is a pretty good size, but for half the price I can get a "20 oz" or a "24 oz" tank. I haven't gotten a clear answer yet from anybody, but I'm pretty sure that these are geometrically very close in size to each other. So this question of the tank is still open.



Tank: (48 cu in) http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0068I2E3E/ref=ox_sc_act_title_3?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A2UD7Z77KCRU5Q

Tank: (20/24 oz) http://www.amazon.com/Empire-Paintball-24oz-CO2-Tank/dp/B007XKFQCM/ref=sr_1_1?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1371516796&sr=1-1&keywords=paintball+tanks+24oz

http://www.amazon.com/Pure-Energy-40020-Empire-20oz/dp/B0008G2WAW/ref=sr_1_2?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1371516796&sr=1-2&keywords=paintball+tanks+24oz

The tanks come with an 800 psi valve, which apparently can't be reliably modified to produce 1,000 psi, but if it could then the regulator would be unnecessary.



Regulator: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007P5AQMU/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A2UD7Z77KCRU5Q

This is apparently the only regulator with an output pressure greater than the "standard" 800-ish psi.



Hose: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002OJPTQ/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A11SS3M8QH3W0T




You will need to design a quick release adapter, similar to the adapter you find on air tools, that attaches to the accumulator input valve.

Chris.
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Geoff Wootton
Prolific User
Username: dounraey

Post Number: 217
Registered: 5-2012
Posted on Tuesday, 18 June, 2013 - 11:11 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Chris

Many thanks for the links.

If you end up using the Watts A762 coupler as part of your quick release adapter be aware that the datasheet rates it at 1000 psi. I am sure the tolerances are not so close that it will not handle 1100 psi, but thought I'd mention it.

I note that the regulator comes at 950 or 1100 psi. 950 is very close, but I still think I'd go with 1100 psi.
Geoff.
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Bill Coburn
Moderator
Username: bill_coburn

Post Number: 1511
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Tuesday, 18 June, 2013 - 11:48 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

For the past 20 years I have used a 'D' size dry nitrogen cylinder from the local BOC depot. Many tool shops are sub agents and can supply refills. Among other users, pubs use the gas to pressurise their kegs in the basement so that the drinkers at ground level get their beer out of the tap!

What is unavoidable but annoying is that once the cylinder has done about 8 spheres the pressure drops to under 1000 psi so you have to take it back and get another one. There is no refund for unused gas.
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Brian Vogel
Grand Master
Username: guyslp

Post Number: 439
Registered: 6-2009
Posted on Tuesday, 18 June, 2013 - 11:57 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

OK, Bill, what's a BOC depot?

Brian, having one of those "separated by a common language" (or uncommon acronym) moments
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Geoff Wootton
Prolific User
Username: dounraey

Post Number: 218
Registered: 5-2012
Posted on Tuesday, 18 June, 2013 - 12:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Brian

The company was originally known as the British Oxygen Company and I believe dated back to around 1900. It relatively recently changed it's name to BOC gases. It is obviously a large multinational now - not sure if it is still based in the UK or who owns it now.

Geoff
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Bill Coburn
Moderator
Username: bill_coburn

Post Number: 1512
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Tuesday, 18 June, 2013 - 12:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Ah Brian/ I forget that we have you aliens on the web!!!! When I lived in your country, I used to slightly convulse to be called an alien like as if I was a bloody Martian. Here we call 'aliens' much more sophisticated names like wogs or refo's or pommes or yanks. I apologise!

BOC is the British Oxygen Company. That won't help you I realise and you are unlikely to find an alien oxgen company in your country.

What I didn't mention as a supplier was the welding industry. If you approach any welding shop or welder they should tell you where they get their oxygen and acetylene. Those places, at least in this country sell a variety of gases for special purposes and as the supplier has equipment to extract, compress and store nitrogen, they would seem to be the best bet. As has already been mentioned I think, the maintenance people at any airport would surely have nitrogen in their tool kit so to speak.

As to the underlying reference to language, I happen to be a rare defender of many words in 'your' language including aluminum and side walk and route (which we pronounce 'root and which can cause the most incredible reactions with strangers) but I cavil at dove rather than dived and gotten as samples.

Bill, to plagiarise Brian and considers himself so completely confused in this world he chooses to ignore the lot!
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Chris Miller
New User
Username: cjm51213

Post Number: 9
Registered: 5-2013
Posted on Tuesday, 18 June, 2013 - 12:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Bill,

Trade the residual gas to the pub for beers!!! Then exchange the empty tank...

Chris.
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Geoff Wootton
Prolific User
Username: dounraey

Post Number: 219
Registered: 5-2012
Posted on Tuesday, 18 June, 2013 - 12:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Bill

When I moved to the US my visa card refered to me as a "Legal Alien". I really liked it. So delightfully non-pc. My current card is entitled the much soppier "Permanent Resident".

Geoff
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Brian Vogel
Grand Master
Username: guyslp

Post Number: 440
Registered: 6-2009
Posted on Tuesday, 18 June, 2013 - 12:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Geoff,

I refer you to the lyrics of Sting's Englishman in New York, specifically the chorus.

Brian, who hastens to point out to Bill that we Yanks have plenty of parallel "terms of endearment" for foreign nationals (like anyplace doesn't?)
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Geoff Wootton
Prolific User
Username: dounraey

Post Number: 220
Registered: 5-2012
Posted on Tuesday, 18 June, 2013 - 01:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Brian

Interesting lyrics. There's a lot of English snobbery hidden in there; a trait Americans definitely do not like about the English.

Geoff
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Brian Vogel
Grand Master
Username: guyslp

Post Number: 441
Registered: 6-2009
Posted on Tuesday, 18 June, 2013 - 01:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Geoff,

While we may not like the English class system that's all "forgiven" when one hears an English accent. I'm almost certain one could make terrorist threats in the USA with an English accent and still be thought of as "cultured and charming."

My partner and I have several friends who are English, and one of them once said, after seeing my first Rolls-Royce, "You've committed the worst offense, seeking to be above your station." This was, of course, said kindly and in jest, but one can't get the jest unless one has some sense of the truth that's having fun poked at it.

Brian
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Chris Miller
New User
Username: cjm51213

Post Number: 10
Registered: 5-2013
Posted on Wednesday, 19 June, 2013 - 02:25 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Geoff,

I deleted my post from Tuesday, 18 June, 2013 - 11:04 am for misleading and possibly dangerous implications. I stated that I had questions about the geometry of 20/24 oz CO2 tanks with respect to 48 cubic inch tanks and I believed that they were equivalent and I have learned that they are GEOMETRICALLY equivalent. However, CO2 tanks WILL NOT HOLD 3,000 psi. Consequently, I have reposted without the misleading CO2 references.



Tank: (48 cu in) http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0068I2E3E/ref=ox_sc_act_title_3?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A2UD7Z77KCRU5Q

The tanks come with an 800 psi valve, which apparently can't be reliably modified to produce 1,000 psi, but if it could then the regulator would be unnecessary.



Regulator: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007P5AQMU/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A2UD7Z77KCRU5Q

This is apparently the only regulator with an output pressure greater than the "standard" 800-ish psi.



Hose: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002OJPTQ/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A11SS3M8QH3W0T




You will need to design a quick release adapter, similar to the adapter you find on air tools, that attaches to the accumulator input valve.

Chris.

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