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Geoff Wootton
Frequent User
Username: dounraey

Post Number: 86
Registered: 5-2012
Posted on Saturday, 23 February, 2013 - 08:05 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I am trying to remove heater duct that runs from the heater blower unit to the central plenum. The manual says to peel back the vinyl and pull the duct free. However, since it is now 40 years old it is very brittle. I tried Dave Puttock's method of removing the blower fan and then the blower housing, however the wiring loom gets in the way on my car and prevents the withdrawal of the fan.

Not sure where to go from here. Has anyone else had this problem.
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Geoff Wootton
Frequent User
Username: dounraey

Post Number: 87
Registered: 5-2012
Posted on Saturday, 23 February, 2013 - 08:12 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I'm thinking of simply cutting it off and making a new one.
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Geoff Wootton
Frequent User
Username: dounraey

Post Number: 93
Registered: 5-2012
Posted on Wednesday, 27 February, 2013 - 06:58 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Folks

Thought I'd give my solution to the above problem for any future readers.

The heater duct is a rubber moulding that is covered by the familiar vinyl sleeve. The problem on my car was that the rubber moulding had become very hard, with age. The solution was to heat it up with a hairdryer for 20 mins which softened up the rubber moulding, thus making it flexible enough for it to be pulled clear. I guess when the RR engineers originally used this flexible moulding they did not envisiage someone trying to pull it off 40 years later.
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Brian Vogel
Prolific User
Username: guyslp

Post Number: 264
Registered: 6-2009
Posted on Wednesday, 27 February, 2013 - 08:42 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Geoff, thanks for posting this.

I often wonder whether those posting questions have ever found solutions. Would that anyone in the same sort of situation would be as generous with sharing what they actually found and did.

Brian
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Geoff Wootton
Frequent User
Username: dounraey

Post Number: 94
Registered: 5-2012
Posted on Wednesday, 27 February, 2013 - 09:29 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Thanks Brian.

To be precise, I should have said plastic moulding, rather than rubber moulding. The principle is the same though, heating it gave it just enough "give" to pull it out.
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Bill Coburn
Moderator
Username: bill_coburn

Post Number: 1490
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Wednesday, 27 February, 2013 - 09:42 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hmm Brian/ I have been doing just that for the last 10 years in some 1300 pages but judging by some of the questioins we get here not many notice!!

Geoff's treatment is very relevant today with fuel injected cars' engines which use this new-fangled shiny thick moulded hard rubber piping to direct whatever it is to wherever it has to go via the most circuitous routes. Try bending that stuff and it will break. The solution is the hot air gun which can toast bread if required (gives it a funny taste though!).
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Brian Vogel
Prolific User
Username: guyslp

Post Number: 265
Registered: 6-2009
Posted on Wednesday, 27 February, 2013 - 10:18 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Bill,

As you well know, many have taken notice of Tee-One Topics and bless you, if not daily, then quite frequently for your labor of love [and the technical expertise contained therein].

That being said, they're in "a different medium" than these forums and knowledge of one does not necessarily mean knowledge of the other.

My attempt to remedy that is by posting direct links, such as the one above, when opportunities present themselves. You have no idea how many people I've directed to Tee-One Topics, most frequently to specific issues and articles, in response to questions so as to increase worship at the Temple of Bill Coburn and to make sure another devotee is born.

Brian (who's really not being ironic, either)
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Geoff Wootton
Frequent User
Username: dounraey

Post Number: 95
Registered: 5-2012
Posted on Wednesday, 27 February, 2013 - 02:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Bill,

Tee-one topics is an absolute treasure trove of information. I suspect it is far more widely read than you think. A search of another RR forum, http://www.rollsroyceforums.com/, keyword tee-one, throws out 58 matches alone. As long as RR cars exist then tee-one topics will be relevent and read. In that regard your work is timeless. It is also very much appreciated.

On a related note, i.e. level of readership, I believe a lot of new owners do not realise that RROCA have opened their forums to non-members. When I bought my SY1 about 10 months ago I searched the web for RR forums. The first page I came across relating to the Australian RR Owners Club contained in it's wording "The RROCA uses this site for "Members Only" ...." I was genuinely under the impression that these forums were for RROCA members only. I often see David inserts entries on behalf of guest users. He must wonder why these people do not just register. How many have just superficially scanned the splash page (click "Australian RR Forums" above) and seen the words "The RROCA uses this site for "Members Only" and assumed they are not eligible to use these forums. Just a thought.
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David Gore
Moderator
Username: david_gore

Post Number: 1227
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Wednesday, 27 February, 2013 - 04:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Geoff, you may have a point but I personally think the first sentence says everything that needs to be said:

"A site provided by Australian enthusiasts for Rolls Royce and Bentley owners, enthusiasts and admirers to share their appreciation and knowledge of 100 years of motoring excellence no matter where they live in the world."

There is no mention of a need to be a member of the RROC[Australia] or any other Club to use the forum. The only restriction is that certain sections are exclusively for RROC[Australia] use to communicate with members.
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Geoff Wootton
Prolific User
Username: dounraey

Post Number: 101
Registered: 5-2012
Posted on Wednesday, 06 March, 2013 - 08:56 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I need to replace the rubber gasket that goes between the heater fan assembly and it's housing. I'm looking for sheet rubber about 1/8" thick. Can anyone advise me of a supplier or of the type of rubber that would be suitable for such a purpose.
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Brian Vogel
Prolific User
Username: guyslp

Post Number: 274
Registered: 6-2009
Posted on Wednesday, 06 March, 2013 - 10:09 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Geoff,

If you have a large tire outfit near you stop by and see if they have any large truck inner tubes. You can cut these open to create large sheets, the thickness is about what you need, and this stuff wears like iron (yet is still remarkably pliable).

Brian, who's used inner tube rubber for many applications
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Geoff Wootton
Prolific User
Username: dounraey

Post Number: 102
Registered: 5-2012
Posted on Wednesday, 06 March, 2013 - 02:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Brian

That's a great idea; it hadn't occured to me. However, in my search I have come across a local company that supplies sheet rubber in various non-industrial sizes at low price.

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/ecatalog/N-1z0dtti

I know that you have done some work on different rubber compounds, re: your research into O rings. I am thinking of Buna-n nitrile for this application - what do you think?
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Geoff Wootton
Prolific User
Username: dounraey

Post Number: 103
Registered: 5-2012
Posted on Wednesday, 06 March, 2013 - 03:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I've just found the misc technical library:

http://rrtechnical.info/miscellaneous/miscellaneoust.html

All is covered in there. Apologies for not checking first. A definite rtfm moment on my part.
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Brian Vogel
Prolific User
Username: guyslp

Post Number: 275
Registered: 6-2009
Posted on Thursday, 07 March, 2013 - 12:54 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Geoff,

Another excellent source for virtually any part you can think of is McMaster-Carr. They definitely have sheet rubber in myriad types and configurations.

I bought stainless mesh from them when I was remaking my hydraulic reservoir filters.

Brian
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Geoff Wootton
Prolific User
Username: dounraey

Post Number: 105
Registered: 5-2012
Posted on Thursday, 07 March, 2013 - 02:43 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Brian

Thanks for the link - another for my suppliers list.
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Randy Roberson
Frequent User
Username: wascator

Post Number: 96
Registered: 5-2009
Posted on Thursday, 07 March, 2013 - 11:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I remember these two plastic ducts as among the worst parts of my heater core repair. I had a seamstress replace the sewn vinyl covers; they were just tough to get back in place correctly because the rectangular end was sort of warped so I could not get it correctly in place and sealed. Finally I cut a wooden dowel, used it to prop the rectangular end open where it attaches to the steel housing, and when it was in place and secured, I had attached a wire to the dowel so I pulled it out. It was another one of those jobs which seems like it will be so simple, and yet it completely ruins your day.
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Geoff Wootton
Prolific User
Username: dounraey

Post Number: 106
Registered: 5-2012
Posted on Friday, 08 March, 2013 - 04:13 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Here's a photo of the part Randy refers to:

heater duct

The sides of the rectangular end, shown, should be straight, but end up concave. The reason for this is the strap that holds the duct to the heater plenum stretches/loses it's elasticity and the duct comes away the plenum leaving a small gap. Since the edges are no longer supported by the flanges on the plenum, they relax to form the concave shape. Noxious gases from the engine bay can then be sucked directly into the passenger compartment, so overhauling the heater ducts is a job well worth doing. Additionally, the rubber seals perish, also allowing unwanted gases and noise from the engine a route into the passenger compartment.

Incidentally, my current bit of restoration started when I was trying to access the relay box that sits directly below the heater duct. The manual says to remove the front cover of the relay box, remove the four setscrews, pull the box forward and rotate it up to gain access to the relays and scintilla switch. On my car (SY1, SRX18501) this is physically impossible as the relay box cannot be pulled far enough forward to clear the heater duct. The main obstructions are the mounting plate for the accelerator linkage and the cruise control bellows. I figured, perhaps erroneously, that it would be easier to access the relay box from the top by removing the heater duct. I am curious as to how other owners access the relay box.
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Randy Roberson
Frequent User
Username: wascator

Post Number: 97
Registered: 5-2009
Posted on Friday, 08 March, 2013 - 05:43 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

That's it exactly! It seemed to stay in place as intended, once I got it there with the dowel holding the long sides parallel. I am not certain but I seem to recall there is a lip on the heater box opening that, once you get the duct in place correctly, will hold it. In any case I was satisfied it was in place correctly when I proceeded.
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Geoff Wootton
Prolific User
Username: dounraey

Post Number: 111
Registered: 5-2012
Posted on Friday, 08 March, 2013 - 06:38 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Randy: I'll check that out when I refit the duct. Do you know whether the strap is meant to be elasticated. Mine is rigid and I'm assuming it has just gone hard with age.

I also had a new vinyl cover made up. The only foam rubber I could easily find to replace the old lining was the type used for furniture upholstery. It is much less dense than the original. What did you use?
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Randy Roberson
Frequent User
Username: wascator

Post Number: 98
Registered: 5-2009
Posted on Friday, 08 March, 2013 - 07:10 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

That's pretty-much what I used. I bought it at an upholstery and fabric shop in Memphis, Tennessee. It was approximately the same as the old material, normal foam about 3/4 inch thick, and it became somewhat compressed due to the sewing and fitting and so was about right.
I think I know what your material was: was it white and dense, with almost invisible cells? My car is a 1970; there could have been differences. When my covers were completed and installed, they looked exactly as the originals and I was pleased. A lady charged me $100 for the two duct covers and a complete set of bonnet pads (I provided all the material).
My straps seemed to be made of rubber-covered or impregnated fabric, and they were not elastic at all. I looked around for a replacement, and thought at first of black nylon strapping as used in inexpensive straps for backpacks and such: readily available at sporting-goods stores and online. One of my brothers happened along: he has some material he makes dog collars from, and it was perfect, with the only difference being it was gloss black, not matte. He even had stainless buckles which were exactly as the originals, and the rivets and tool to apply them. He made a pair using my old ones as a pattern and they worked great. You have to get them tight enough to hold the ducts in place, yet if too tight you can't assemble it, so it takes some judgement. If they were somewhat elastic they would be easier to fit but might not withstand the under-bonnet temperatures. I hope this helps you!
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Geoff Wootton
Prolific User
Username: dounraey

Post Number: 113
Registered: 5-2012
Posted on Friday, 08 March, 2013 - 08:00 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Randy - that really does help. I'm awaiting delivery of a sheet of rubber to remake the gaskets. I was thinking of making the straps from this rubber. Now I'm not so sure. It seems that the straps are non-elastic and rely on the elasticity of the foam rubber/vinyl cover to allow some give, so that they can be fitted. As you say, it will take some judgement to get them at their optimum lengths. Looks like this is the way to go.

Thanks for the info.
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Geoff Wootton
Prolific User
Username: dounraey

Post Number: 114
Registered: 5-2012
Posted on Friday, 08 March, 2013 - 08:10 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Thinking about it, if the straps were elastic, the elasticity would soon go. They must be inelastic.

Regards the foam rubber I agree with you. The new lining is thicker than the original but when fitted it will compress down which will increase it's density. I checked the foam was fire retardant (with a torch) so all is good to go.
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Paul Yorke
Grand Master
Username: paul_yorke

Post Number: 975
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Friday, 08 March, 2013 - 10:40 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I have the feeling that the straps are made of the same elastic rubber that the straps that hold the battery cover and the jack in place in the boot. (trunk :-) )

You could try an upholstery / furniture for webbing that goes under seats/chairs.

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