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Bradley van Ree
Experienced User
Username: bradbase

Post Number: 11
Registered: 5-2012
Posted on Sunday, 23 December, 2012 - 02:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hello Everyone,

I'm looking to get some help with my central locking solenoids. The front ones have been sticking.

I've taken the door linings off for some other work (replacing window lifter relays) and have decided to attempt to work on the central locking while I'm there.

I found some good advice on some aspects of this work here;
http://au.rrforums.net/forum/messages/17001/8879.html

I'm not looking to replace the solenoids. I'm happy to look at re-vamping them. With this, two struggles are becoming apparent;
-- The rubber dust boots on both front solenoids are perished. A well known website for spares says these aren't made anymore and all their second-hand stock are also perished.
-- There's no 'kit' to recondition the solenoids. In fact it's as though these parts have never existed. Internet searching the Lucas part number (76562F) doesn't bring back anything useful in relation to these things nor does "central locking silver shadow" (unless you want to hear how troublesome they are).

At the moment I'm looking for a replacement dust boot to fit square 3.5 X 5 cm and a 1cm diameter centre for the rod.
OR
a round dust boot to fit 5.5cm diameter and a 1cm diameter centre for the rod.

The local rubber products store apparently doesn't stock shaped rubber like this. Although they do sell things I could make something from. I'd prefer to put my time onto something else like celebrating some working and dust protected central locking solenoids. :-)

Thanks in advance.

Brad
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Paul Yorke
Grand Master
Username: paul_yorke

Post Number: 908
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Monday, 24 December, 2012 - 08:07 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Brad,

If they are sticking occasionally then you have picked the right time to do it. Removing and cleaning the mechanism thoroughly with WD40 whilst operating and rotating the actuator by hand will usually free it out and give it a new lease of life.

Regarding the dust covers - Over here dust is probably the least of it's problems, water ingress is a bigger killer here.

A simple cover made out of silicone rubber sheet or the finger of a rubber glove will give enough protection and be flexible enough to allow the movement needed. A bit of sealant and cable ties should provide a seal that is as good as the original dust covers.
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Brian Vogel
Prolific User
Username: guyslp

Post Number: 171
Registered: 6-2009
Posted on Monday, 24 December, 2012 - 08:51 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Brad,

I second Mr. Yorke's "soak 'em and hand work 'em" using penetrating oil of your choice. I have revived sticky solenoids of various sorts this way.

One thing to be aware of, though, particularly in reference to the rear doors, is that there are "positioning issues" that can make these solenoids less functional that they might be. Certain slight adjustments to the angling of the various linkages and the solenoid itself can sometimes make a world of difference.

I can also recommend Glad Press n' Seal as an excellent medium for creating "tents" that keep out crud and/or water. I used this to waterproof the main window/mirror control module in the driver's door of my 1999 Jag which had died two previous deaths from unanticipated exposure to water. Using a part of a vinyl, nitrile, or latex exam glove arranged as a tent and secured to the linkage far enough above the solenoid to prevent interference should work well, too. My memory is a bit hazy for the front door solenoid at the moment, but I think it's wide enough that a glove finger might not be able to stretch over the top, but I could be wrong. My guess is you'll end up using the palm part and sealing up the large opening where the fingers were after gathering it together.

The original boots were nothing special, that's for sure.

Brian
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Bradley van Ree
Experienced User
Username: bradbase

Post Number: 14
Registered: 5-2012
Posted on Wednesday, 26 December, 2012 - 07:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Paul and Brian,

Thanks for the input.

The soak 'em and work 'em seems to have worked. While playing around I found one of the solenoids had a bung connector (it fell off in my hand while re-plugging). I'd soaked and worked for 12 hours or so and still had an intermittent result. I thought for a moment it was due to dirt, water and wear (mud came out of the solenoid when I started with silicone spray). It came good when the connection was fixed with a new spade connector and now it works a treat. I am currently convinced if the solenoids are even vaguely near serviceable condition the biggest issue with their function is ensuring they have enough current. At the moment I suspect this is the major unexplored avenue of why they don't work properly on the whole. eg; "I lubricated them to death and they still don't work properly..." the wiring remains forty years old with connectors (and often connections) the same age.

To everyone with respect to dust covers;
I've assessed all sorts of solutions for the dust covers (gloves of various materials, rubber sheeting, heat-shrink, silicone tubing, leather, oiled cotton, condoms, ad nauseam, etc...) and came to the conclusion making some is not a terrible approach. I have made a mould and successfully created two purpose built latex dust covers for my central locking units. The design needs a little tweaking but the result is a definite success. My appraisal is that latex may not be close to the original material however it does come with some significant advantages;
It is
-- durable enough
-- waterproof (and so resistant to dust)
-- affordable
-- repairable

Although at this stage I don't know how long they'll actually last I do know that without something the solenoids are likely to break in less than ten years and even if the covers only last three years I feel they are well worth it. The door trim is likely to come off more regularly than every three years to service other things so they can be monitored and very easily replaced.

On the by-and-by if anyone is interested in dust covers for their central locking that are a drop-in replacement to the originals I'm happy to come to an arrangement. I can't claim they look as professional as those made by Lucas but from my experience so far they appear to be able to do the job.
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Brian Vogel
Prolific User
Username: guyslp

Post Number: 173
Registered: 6-2009
Posted on Thursday, 27 December, 2012 - 01:28 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Brad,

I presume that your "wiring theory" is probably correct simply because the same issue exists for the windows on the majority of these cars (see: Richard Treacy's Window Lift Improvement Article). By extension, this is entirely plausible.

The sorts of cost-cutting resorted to during Crewe's "darker days" never ceases to amaze me. You'll never convince me that this wiring was chosen due to weight considerations.

I'm also frequently in wonder when I see grossly overengineered/overbuilt components that could easily be flimsy with no negative effect but things that should have been "built for the ages" that are constructed such that they break if a gnat lands on 'em in these cars.

Brian
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Paul Yorke
Grand Master
Username: paul_yorke

Post Number: 910
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Thursday, 27 December, 2012 - 09:33 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Brad, Good news then. Definitely getting them early is the way to go.

Other than the terminals getting 'dry joints' there is a link between the two earth sides of the coils which becomes open circuit and needs re-soldering.

The cables from the loom suffer from the copper inside the insulation corroding away leaving the connector clipped to the plastic. The cables are thick enough but degradation takes it's toll and they don't have much reserve capacity.

The door should be treated as a 'wet area' so your dust covers are a must. Also a membrane must run all the way down to the bottom of the door pads.

Regarding electric windows and their wiring. The problem with 95% of them causing a slow action (especially in the up direction) is a mechanical problem regarding poor assembly in the factory. Although rewiring and relays will speed up the motors to an acceptable level, it is not curing the problem. A bit like finding your headlights are getting dim so you put brighter bulbs in and thicker wires , when it's actually the reflector that are dirty.

Will try to remember to post it on FB next time I do one.
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Jeffrey McCarthy
Grand Master
Username: jefmac2003

Post Number: 355
Registered: 5-2007
Posted on Friday, 28 December, 2012 - 02:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Paul -I'm intrigued by the mechanical problem you mention. Is it in the window motor itself or in the various linkages?

Also I'd been led to believe that WD40 was a fire hazard around electrical connections. In this case obviously wrong.

There was a thread many moons ago about plastic washers inside the solenoids crumbling and causing sticking - but the solution sounded so difficult I never disassembled one to try it.
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Paul Yorke
Grand Master
Username: paul_yorke

Post Number: 911
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Friday, 28 December, 2012 - 06:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Jeffrey ,

The windows are almost always a gear box / coupling / lubrication problem. Am on my mobile atm so can't go into details.

WD40 or any oil and electricity sounds like a bad mix but has been used for years on all sorts of electrical connections, devices, circuit boards etc applied to complete engines especially HT leads distributors , coils , ballast resistors and relays without any problems.

I Advise nothing thicker because the temptation to use a thick oil, silicone, or thin grease in the unit is great and seems like a good idea to help lubricate the plunger inside and keep moisture out. I have have found that you can end up with a kind of hydraulic lock inside so the plunger can not pick up speed and operate the lock. In effect it acts like a shock damper .

I have never taken one apart either, labour cost v part cost hasn't made that viable yet.I would say 90% of stiff ones are great for years to come when caught early. Probably only 10% of completely seized ones can be freed out and give a long lasting repair.