| Author | Message | ||
     PETER DIXON Frequent User Username: petenlinid Post Number: 63 Registered: 8-2003 |
Probably obvious to everybody but me, but is there any problem with using copper washers between the brass sump plug and the alloy sump, and the steel block coolant plugs and the block. Thanks Peter | ||
| Jan Forrest Grand Master Username: got_one Post Number: 356 Registered: 1-2008 |
Apart from the obvious electrochemical reactions that would occur, which would be over such a long timescale as to be ignorable, nothing deleterious comes to mind. Even so I would be more inclined to source softer alloy washers if you're that concerned as they should seal better, although they would have to be replaced after a single use - which you're supposed to do anyway. | ||
| Peter Talbot Prolific User Username: squerryes Post Number: 111 Registered: 7-2010 |
I agree with Jan on his first point: the mis-match of several different metals is unlikely to be of concern either short or long term. As regards his second point - I disagree:"softer alloy washers" maybe of an unknown quantity and, by their very nature, prone to fail if over tightened. I would go for copper washers, which have a defined characteristic. There is however a problem: the copper washers available to you are of unknown date of manufacture and over time the molecular structure of copper changes, resulting not in a soft washer able to effect an efficeient seal but an intractable hard washer of no use to anyone. This problem is easily sorted by annealing the copper washer prior to use - I'll post directions later. Peter | ||
| Peter Talbot Prolific User Username: squerryes Post Number: 112 Registered: 7-2010 |
Copper Annealing: this is a real simple process -go to: http://steamshed.com/annealing%20process.html Peter} | ||
| Bill Coburn Moderator Username: bill_coburn Post Number: 1404 Registered: 4-2003 |
The washers supplied by the Factory for the sump plug are annealed aluminium. The idea is that they readily crush and form a seal. That is why you always use a fresh new washer! If you cannot get them, get aluminium washers of the right size and anneal them yourself google will explain how. Copper, even annealed, does not do the job satisfactorily! | ||
| Brian Vogel Frequent User Username: guyslp Post Number: 85 Registered: 6-2009 |
There are a couple of thing's I'll add to the link that Peter posted for copper annealing: 1. If you're unconcerned about the appearance of the washer then thorough removal of surface oxides isn't really necessary. 2. The easiest way to see if you've reached the correct annealing temperature is to do this when it's relatively dark where you're working. The washer should glow "cherry red" when it's hit the correct annealing temperature. 3. For copper, quenching in water is not necessary, though it won't hurt anything, either. There are some metals that must be quenched and others that must not, but copper and brass both can be either air cooled or quenched. 4. If you've got something you can hold the washer with you can actually anneal smaller ones using the flame on a gas stove burner. I typically use either a propane torch or an acetylene-air torch. [Oxy-acetylene is way too hot and tends to result in much unintended melting.] I've got jeweler's mesh that I use as the heating surface, but you can use a brick or some other heat resistant object just as well. Brian | ||
| Peter Talbot Prolific User Username: squerryes Post Number: 113 Registered: 7-2010 |
Brian I agree - it is not necessary to water quench copper, air cooling is fine. Peter | ||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 1107 Registered: 4-2003 |
Gentlemen, Emeritus Ph.Ds to you all for your contributions on this topic. Some of you also qualify for the Diploma of Bush Mechanics for your annealing techniques  . Bill, with regard to the Copper washers, you are correct about problems getting them to seal however my experience suggests this is due to the fact that the commercial "off-the-shelf" producst are too thin in cross-section to plastically deform sufficiently to give a full seal. I found using 2 washers instead of one and tightening normally will give a full seal and I haven't experienced problems with loss of tension over time for the sump plug on my Toyota diesel which just loves to vibrate. | ||
| PETER DIXON Frequent User Username: petenlinid Post Number: 64 Registered: 8-2003 |
Gentlemen, again I am in awe of the combined wisdom of the members of this forum. Many thanks for your considered responses to my request. Peter | ||
| Peter Talbot Prolific User Username: squerryes Post Number: 115 Registered: 7-2010 |
David A mere Emeritus Ph.D. !!! You must do better. Peter Emeritus Professor of Biotechnology Emeritus Professor of Computing Science | ||
| Peter Talbot Prolific User Username: squerryes Post Number: 116 Registered: 7-2010 |
On a more serious note: I quite agree with David that many commercial copper washers are of thin cross section. It is just so easy to cut them yourself from 1.5mm to 2.00mm thick copper sheet (anneal it first !!) and bore a central hole to suit the required diameter. Peter (Ph.D.,D.Sc.,Sc.D.,D.M.,D.S.,DBA.,etc.) !! Only included the above to get David going. | ||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 1108 Registered: 4-2003 |
Peter, That was the best I could think of at the time and one which hopefully would not antagonise the worthy recipients of the title Emeritus Professor such as your good self. Such titles are not bestowed lightly and reflect a lifetime of contributions and achievements in advancing our knowledge. My real objective was to have some fun with our bush mechanics and their ingenuity in finding multiple solutions to a common problem through the award of a Diploma ...... | ||
| Peter Talbot Prolific User Username: squerryes Post Number: 118 Registered: 7-2010 |
David Ease up, sit back, open a tinnie !! You should by now be able to see a deliberate Wind-Up when presented in such an overt manner. Query: when do I get my Diploma? and will it come with a significant cash bursary ?? We "Poms" have a rather fine sense of ridicule. Peter | ||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 1109 Registered: 4-2003 |
Peter, I was smiling with every word - just my aussie sense of humour at play.... I knew it was a wind-up and tried to respond in kind however, out of respect for those granted Emeritus status, I tried to avoid possible misinterpretation of my use of the Emeritus honorific. Of course, a bursary is available payable in brass razoos......... More information for those who are not aware of this currency is on the following link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brass_razoo | ||
| Peter Talbot Prolific User Username: squerryes Post Number: 119 Registered: 7-2010 |
David It's real good to have friends who like a joke!! I must inform you, with regret, that brass razoos are a restricted currency of no convertible or external value. On quite another subject: I presume you are following Rod's emails as regards his 1984 Spirit - "Echo". Rod is paying out just too much money with no tangible result - I've suggested he call it Quits, scrap "Echo", and buy something else. Regards Peter | ||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 1110 Registered: 4-2003 |
Peter, So have I and while the old adage "in for a penny; in for a pound" always applies in cases such as this; my opinion is that it is a little early to consider scrapping the car. This appears to be the consequence of one of the gremlins that take up residence in certain R-R/B vehicles from time to time to ensure their custodians embark on a fast-track introduction to ownership. I think the car needs to be checked by a number of specialists as a fresh approach by someone who has not previously worked on the car might turn up something that has been overlooked. I wonder if anyone has tried removing the HT leads from the covers, separating them and positioning them away from the engine block then testing the car - these leads are prone to breakdown and arcing as they age. Something as basic as this might be the problem; the simplest causes may be the hardest to find as it is in our nature to assume a complex problem is the cause and investigate accordingly without properly testing the basics first. |
