| Author | Message | ||
     Serge PONTES Frequent User Username: serrgio Post Number: 20 Registered: 1-2004 |
Hi everybody, that's me again...with my shadow 1975 (SRH22789) from Paris. I've bought brake's hoses in USA. But on them (lucas), reference are not the same as worksbooks (wich are CD6242, 6243, etc)!; so I don't know wich fit the right place... Can somebody help me, telling the equivalence ? I have 3 hoses with "2306032" and 1 with "4104036" (wich seams to be the same as the 3 previous; may the four CD6242 for the fronts calipers ?) - 40,5cm long (15" 9/16) with same long connexion at both end two "9707035", one "9205035", one "7503031" wich seams the sames, 24,5cm long (9" 5/8) with différent connexion at end (one long, one short) one "1705035", 28,5cm long (11" 2/8) with different connexion at end one "2612021", 30cm long (11" 9/16) with same connexion at both end and one "3912028", 26cm long (10" 2/8), with same connexion at end. for for any king of help.... seRRgio | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 216 Registered: 4-2003 |
I can't be of much help with lengths and Lucas part numbers, but they sound about correct. You will need to measure the old ones to see if the lenghts are OK, and of course the fittings must at least look the same from the outside before removing an old one. Provided the hoses fit, have no concerns. Apart from the two braided high pressure hoses, the hydraulic hoses are nothing special. They are standard automotive grade brake hoses. There is no issue with hoses concerning RR363 compatability, unlike the system seals which are arguably a little more special. When I replaced all the hoses on our '72 in 2002 I was delivered one hose short. Our local brake shop in Canberra, Australia, stocks them in all lengths, and they are widely used on many cars. He sold me an identical hose: I showed him the old one and he matched it. Strangely, the prices are almost the same from Bentley, but the factor was convenience. Across the street is a hydraulics shop which will make up any hose to pattern to save time on waiting for a hose from Sydney. They made a power steering hose up for me once in an emergency when it exploded, and a bonus was that it cost a fraction of a genuine one or pre-made one. They can also make up braided hoses without any problems. Before you start, why don't you visit your local brake shop with new samples in hand to see whether they stock them too ? Maybe also a visit an industrial hydraulics shop would be worthwhile. If you run into trouble doing the job it would be good to know whether they can help out. | ||
| Serge PONTES Frequent User Username: serrgio Post Number: 21 Registered: 1-2004 |
Hi richard, thanks for advoice. that's right that the best is going under the car and compare the olds and the news... I'll probably have to do that because even in paris, we didn't have spécial hydraulics shops. RR and B garage are very rare and each french type cars wich do have hydraulics have spécials parts....and so, specifics gagrages... thanks for all by seRRgio | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 218 Registered: 4-2003 |
Serge, You may be surprised. You probably have all the correct hoses, but the following French companies spring to mind. http://www.centrale-hydro-partners.com/flexibles_hydrauliques.php http://www.achp.fr/ ând there are thousands of others. Incidentally, why did you buy hoses from the USA ? These things are normally much less expensive from the UK, and Brabo in the Netherlands are competitive too. | ||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 265 Registered: 4-2003 |
Hi SeRRgio, Sorry for my lack of involvement with your requests however I wish to take issue with one comment of Richard's regarding hose suitability - whilst standard hoses work fine 99% of the time on RR hydraulics; I have serious reservations about their suitability for a full-bore emergency stop when the pedal is flat to the floor and the distribution valves are applying the full system pressure of 2000+psi to the calipers. This pressure is way above the SAE burst pressure for standard hoses and the consequences of a burst hose in this situation are frightening. I stand corrected on this but it is my understanding the Crewe replacement hoses are aircraft hydraulic hoses with burst pressures above 2500psi hence the cost. While you are at it; I suggest you should also replace the flexible hoses connecting the auto transmission to the lines to the oil cooler - I had one of these burst due to old age and cooked the transmission trying to get the car up our drive and into the garage to fix it!! | ||
| Serge PONTES Frequent User Username: serrgio Post Number: 22 Registered: 1-2004 |
Hi Richard, Hi David, thanks for all advoices. don't worry about the transmission: I take care of it with great attention because I know that it always need max fresh oil, very sensitive mechanism and NEVER should drive if some problem appear with oil quality or quantity...I check oil level each time I take the car or each 100/150km when I drive !!!! Yes, sure, I should have bought the hoses in England..but I've bought them in USA because it was a lot sell quiet for nothing.... about the links you send me, the second is for very specific industrial matérial (big), not for hoses...the first may could be good, but I think only in case off complete disparition off RR parts !! if I understand correctly how they work, you have to give the reference of the hoses you need, according with the machine for wich you need it (and I guess they didn't include RR in this kind of thinks...) or describe with hight précision each hoses... by the way, how have you to prociede to change the hoses ? I mean, to screw on and up the end ? when you turn the hoses, you screw on one side, but screw up the other....and the rubber is very rigid. what's the solution ? thanks by serge | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 220 Registered: 4-2003 |
David, The first thing I checked with the one non-Crewe brake hose (actually it was the low pressure return from the rear rams anyhow, and is hardly critical) was the SAE pressure rating. The Crewe items are of exactly the same rating as indicated by the mandatory codes stamped on the hose. Afterall, the 2500 psi maximum is strictly limited to the high pressure side in the accumulator circuit, hence the braided high pressure hoses there only. The braking side actually operates at pressures below those of conventional cars anyhow. Remember, there are 16 wheel cylinders compared to 8 on most cars. Their diameters are not exactly small, so a little pressure does a lot of braking even on these heavy cars. You cannot get full pressure into the brakes in any situation, otherwise all the hoses would need to be braided. | ||
| William H. Trovinger II Grand Master Username: bill_trovinger Post Number: 118 Registered: 8-2003 |
Serge: On your comment regarding the transmission being a very sensitive mechanism do not be that concern the GM TH400 is a very tough transmission. It can take a lot more abuse than most transmissions used today. That is why GM used this transmission in their trucks (Chevy and GMC) for decades. On fitting your hoses you may have to loosen some attachment points to get hoses fitted. Most important get the correct die and tap so you can clean the treads before attaching your new hoses. This will make things much easier. If I remember correctly the tread (at least on the rear height control system) is 10mm with 1mm pitch. Regards, Bill | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 222 Registered: 4-2003 |
I have never had a problem replacing hoses. The sequence is common sense: remove the hoses from a group one by one until any hidden behind another is made accessable. Of course, undo the end with the threaded cap first, then loosen the other end and wind the hose off. As Bill T says, sometimes it helps to loosen a housing to gain a bit more spanner access. Just a backup on Bill T. The GM400 is bulletproof: probably the most robust transmission ever fitted to a motor car. Provided the oil and filter are changed every 3 years, or even longer using synthetic Transmax Z, they last enormous mileages regarless of how you treat them. Turbo R's used them until 1992 with up to 400 HP and 750 KN of torque, with only a slightly beefed up coverter compared to yours. There has been no detectable reduction in life in the much more powerful and hugely torquey Turbos. Drag racers in the US regularly pump 2,500 HP and more through these boxes. The later 4L80 4 speed transmission is a GM400 with an overdrive in the extension housing and electronic controls. The only things to watch are ruptured oil coolers, especially the cars with the heat exchanger under the bellhousing (cooland leaks into the transmission) and leaks (the most common reason for overhaul is a grooved torque converter neck and leaky front seal) leading to a low oil level. | ||
| Serge PONTES Frequent User Username: serrgio Post Number: 23 Registered: 1-2004 |
Hi everybody, thanks to Richard and Bill for answer. I'll have a look again on my car to try to understand how to remove old hoses and to fit news easy even the end's screw are opposite. in case of it will help someone, I've found the answer at the hose's reference problem....there are the correspondance I've asked for: CD6243 rh rear outer caliper hose is 2612021 -it is 11 1/2" long overall and has 1" domed ends CD6244 lh rear outer caliper hose is 3902128 - it is 10" long overall and has 1" domed ends CD6247 rh rear inner caliper hose is 1705035 - it is 11 1/4" long overall and has 1 end 1" domed and the other 1/2" flat. CD6248 rh rear outer caliper hose is 9205035 or 7503031 - it is 9 3/4" long overall and has 1/2" flat ends The CD6248 hoses on the "rat trap" at the middle of the car are 9707035- see measurements above. The 4 front hoses CD6242 are 2306032 or 4104036 - all 15 9/16" overall with 1" domed ends by and thanks again serge | ||
| Bill Coburn Grand Master Username: bill_coburn Post Number: 200 Registered: 4-2003 |
Well you guys using that funny salad oil to work your brakes - all very interesting. I called our local brake hose manufacturer in Canberra after reading David's concern. He is actually formally licensed to make the things to order and confirmed Richard's remarks but now I wonder about we superior people who use LHM which use different hoses. Are there after market hoses for these cars? The other night I made a split second decision not to fillet a kangaroo whilst doing a comfortable 80 mph in the Spur and slammed on the stoppers. Only the upholstery and the dog in the back seat suffered damage - very impressive! But the hoses are original and twenty years old with 84K miles on the clock. Bob Chapman who does an awful lot of work with these things tells me he asked an owner to stamp on the brake pedal while the car was rear jacked and both brake hoses blew off the ratrap. That is surely bowel loosening experience. I feel I am on borrowed time! | ||
| Carl Jensen Unregistered guest Posted From: 66.68.123.89 |
I would like to thank David Gore for his comments about replacing the flexible hoses that connect the transmission to the oil cooler lines. When I replaced the transmission filter this evening I also replaced the two hoses per David's suggestion. One was so brittle that it broke in half when I bent it. I'm certain that David's comments saved me a whole lot of grief. Thanks! (Message approved by david_gore) | ||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 319 Registered: 4-2003 |
Hi Carl, Nothing is more satisfying than learning from someone else's expensive experience!! Seriously though; your and my experience highlights the importance of following the recommended replacement schedules for all parts that have a finite life including those parts which are "out of sight - out of mind". These schedules have been developed from actual testing/field service data over a considerable period of time and are specifically set to ensure replacement before failures can occur. | ||
| Charlie Jagneaux Unregistered guest Posted From: 65.1.67.40 |
Out of curiosity regarding the oil cooler mounted under the bellhousing as on my '70 Shadow. Is there a later type of trans oil cooler(RR)that could be plumbed onto the car. For instance a fan cooled model I seem to recall from a '79 or later? | ||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 365 Registered: 4-2003 |
Hi Charlie, The later cars used a conventional oil/water heat exchanger incorporated in the bottom of the radiator to maximise heat transfer efficiency - oil/water systems are far more effective than oil/air systems in the same size; under-bonnet space is at a premium in the Shadow and fitting an effective after-market transmission cooler would not be easy and could cause overheating problems with the existing radiator and/or air conditioning condenser if located in the airstream to these items. My suggestion would be to try and source a later Shadow radiator assembly with the heat exchanger and get a hydraulic hose supplier to make up suitable hoses to run from the transmission to the radiator allowing for suitable retention and routing to avoid the hoses rubbing against engine/suspension/body components. | ||
| John Dare Prolific User Username: jgdare Post Number: 45 Registered: 12-2004 |
Hello Charlie. An American friend of mine fitted an aluminium alloy (DEEP "finned" housing) trans. oil cooler in almost direct substitution for the early R-R bell housing located version. It was a so called "high efficiency" unit as used by the (dare I say it) U.S "hot rodders" who were running T-400s and was only slightly larger in overall dimensions than the original unit. It was available from a major U.S supply house known as SUMMIT, however it MAY not (as previously implied) necessarily be as efficient as the later R-R integrated frontal radiator type. Regretably, I have no other contact details, however a search of the web might assist to locate Summit and/or alternate coolers which may be readily and perhaps more economically adaptable. | ||
| William H. Trovinger II Grand Master Username: bill_trovinger Post Number: 184 Registered: 8-2003 |
John; The company is Summit Racing (http://store.summitracing.com/main.asp) a very good supplier. I have never used them for my Shadow but have for other cars. Regards, Bill | ||
| John Dare Prolific User Username: jgdare Post Number: 46 Registered: 12-2004 |
Thank you William. Site details now recorded. | ||
| Mark Peacock Prolific User Username: takemehomejames Post Number: 41 Registered: 4-2004 |
There is a Deep Alloy finned Trans Pan made by Art Carr. http://www.artcarr.com/catalog/gm-A-D-F.php Part num- A-10150. ( can also be sourced from most speed shops in OZ (rocket, VPW, high performance world etc) This pan is very deep, with cooling fins, doesn't not warp around the bolt holes when you tighten & seals alot better than the original unit. The only down side i found, is it uses as much fluid as the engine sump when you refill !. Ive got one on my SS2 and (finally) stopped it leaking !!!! |
