| Author | Message | ||
     Nigel Ralph Unregistered guest Posted From: 203.87.62.113 |
Hi! Its obvious that my system has been blanked off and it appears that the warning lights have also been tampered with. No amount of pumping of the brakes will gain a response though all warning indicators register momentarily when the engine is started. I recently replaced the rear springs with K-Mac's and can now fill the fuel tank without the rear end sagging but I simply don't know where to start with this suspension problem. Where can I get a wiring diagram for my model and what am I up against with the self-levelling system? The hardest part about changing the rear springs was when the shockies extended and I had a bit of trouble levering them back into position. I assume this was because of the blanking off of the system so it couldn't be depressurised. | ||
| Gabriël Viljoen Experienced User Username: gabriel Post Number: 8 Registered: 3-2004 |
Good day Nigel The hydraulics of my system were not functioning well. I bought the workshop manual - this helped a lot. The previous owner garaged the car for quite a while. When I started using it, small bits of rubber came lose from the pipes and were deposited into the reservoir tank. This blocked the inlet and resulted in very little pressure in the system. I cleaned out the tank. I Blead all the bleading points. Then I discovered that the presure on the height control were minimal. I am busy opening up the height control solenoids and cleaning them. I have done the one, and must still do the other. I have isolated all the leaks, opened up the unit, cleaned it, replaced the o-rings, and fitted new rubber pipes where neccessary. My advice would be to obtain a workshop manual and get a feeling of how the system work. Then tackle each unit and clean it. Normally when a system is blanked off, a little metal ball is placed into the rubber feed pipes. I suggest you look at the pipes - you might just be lucky and see a thickening in the pipes. Good luck. Gabriel | ||
| Nigel Ralph Unregistered guest Posted From: 203.87.62.206 |
Thanks Gabriel, I have tried to read Chapter G Hydraulics, but I'm new to this and it doesn't quite make sense. If someone could tell me why and how these things were done then I could probably figure out what to do (with the manual's help). The tampering with the electric warning systems has me puzzled. Why would anyone interfere with both systems if only one needed to be blanked off? How did they do it? Thanks again, Nigel | ||
| Bill Coburn Grand Master Username: bill_coburn Post Number: 192 Registered: 4-2003 |
Whew Nigel - where to start. Some owners/second hand dealers are so unscrupulous they will do anything to sell a car. Their object is to have no lights on and the car stopping somehow and you will buy. First check that the warning lights will come on. Push the test button. If they don't the globes most likely have been removed - a favourite trick. If they work go down to the accumulators onm the left hand side of the engine and check that the wires to the switches are connected. Get an ohmeter. Switch it to resistance and check that it reads for continuity by putting the two testing leads together. Pump the brake pedal about 50 times with the ignition off. Put your tester across the terminal of one of the switches the brass thing sticking out of the hexagonal thing sticking out of the accumulator and the other to earth. You should have continuity which proves that the switch is working. Then lets have a progress report! | ||
| John Dare Unregistered guest Posted From: 144.138.194.144 |
Bill, How COULD you fail to ALSO mention the old "ball bearing" trick to isolate the rear self levelling?. I have observed this "modification" on many occasions as typically performed by so called "experts"! And..and "WELDING" (to exhaust pipes, where owners are generally unlikely to look!) which reminds me of my old aunts faded postcards from Jenolan caves. You know what I mean. | ||
| Bill Coburn Grand Master Username: bill_coburn Post Number: 193 Registered: 4-2003 |
Sorry John, one shock at a time I think. Nigel if you send me your mailing address and the chassis number of the car I'll sendyou a wiring diagram for a nominal fee. | ||
| whunter Prolific User Username: whunter Post Number: 70 Registered: 10-2003 |
A chassie number would help me figure out your issues. 1974 Shadow does not tell me enough... Do you have a hydraulic system diagram? For CD service information; contact Larry tbird@consultant.com Do you have any repair records? | ||
| Nigel Ralph Unregistered guest Posted From: 203.87.53.147 |
Thanks Bill, PO Box 1155, Proserpine, Qld 4800 or email ralphn@mackay.net.au. and chassis number is SRH 18294. I acknowledge I was overly trusting in purchasing my Rolls and mechanics reports and written statements are worthless. However it has been a dream which I refuse to allow to become a nightmare. It will certainly take a few years but eventually my car will be running in all its glory. In the meantime I thoroughly enjoy the experience of driving half a Rolls. It certainly beats driving a full Landcruiser. The lights do light up momentarily when engine is started so the bulbs are there. No amount of pumping of the brake will bring on a low pressure warning so I believe the system has been disconnected somewhere. John, I do believe the system has been blocked off but have not been game to undo any linkages until I know why. Whunter, thanks. Larry contacted me by email and I have asked for details. | ||
| Nigel Ralph Unregistered guest Posted From: 203.87.62.224 |
Bill, I forgot to ask about the "test button". I assume this is button 17 in the Information Handbook titled Fuel/oil level indicator and warning lamps test switch. When this is depressed a buzzer sounds, the coolant warning illuminates and the fuel guage needle swings to the right to indicate oil level is satisfactory. I simply cannot find reference to any other test button. If all warning lights are supposed to illuminate at thia stage they don't though they all do momentarily when the engine starts. | ||
| Bill Coburn Grand Master Username: bill_coburn Post Number: 194 Registered: 4-2003 |
Nigel I am in Orbost at the moment but will be off home this morning. The test button does test the warning lights and the overheat sensor on the cylinder head. Next test for you is to check the crcuit between the accumulators and the lights. By now you will have found the accumlators down under the left hand side of the engine. They are best accessed from under the car. There should be a wire to the each pressure switch. The terminal is unique usually white and roughly the shape of a sewing thimble. This should be pushed on to a brass terminal on the pressure switch. If the terminal is on the switch and you are getting no lights pull the terminal off and earth it to the frame or engine. Turn on the ignition and the light should come on proving that the circuit is OK. Come back with that result and we'll have a go at the next step! | ||
| Nigel Raph Unregistered guest Posted From: 203.87.64.133 |
Thanks Bill, I need to get a couple of ramps so I can work reasonably comfortably. By the way I found your article on the meeting that occurred during the Canberra firestorm and emailed you on the address you listed with the intention of subscribing to your newsletter but my mail was returned. I am certainly still interested in becoming a subscriber and wish to learn as much as possible about these cars. I'm a teacher by trade and nearing retirement. A hobby such as this along with golf and fishing should keep me fairly busy. | ||
| Bill Coburn Grand Master Username: bill_coburn Post Number: 195 Registered: 4-2003 |
Nigel/ I will send you an email so that you can send me your mail address. I am sorry you previous request was return we inherited a Goblin in our group and it was a little awkward for a while. I await the results of your tests. | ||
| Nigel Ralph Unregistered guest Posted From: 203.87.65.220 |
Hi Bill, finally got a couple of stands and a wheelie bed. Certainly makes life easier. I have confirmed that the warning lights do work so the circuit is fine. Must be a faulty switch? Suspecting a lack of pressure in the accumulators I cracked the bleed nut (or whatever you call it) suspecting to hear a sound of escaping nitrogen, but ... absolutely nothing! I suspect that your advice to Stephen Abigail re 'Electrical Fault' (18 March 2001) is relevent here and I must have the accumulators overhauled. Any advice as to where this may be done and estimated cost would be appreciated. Obviously if the accumulators weren't shagged before my exploration they are now! and I really have no choice. I do suspect though that the system was not operating before my tinkering. I also tried the simple driving (in a safe place and quite slowly) and turning the key off. There were no effective brakes so I concluded there was no stored pressure in the accumulators and the only brakes I have come from the pumps when the engine is running. After having found David Gore's and Richard Treacy's advice to James Woo (Silver Shadow oil leak - please help July 2003) I am now horrified at what could possibly have gone wrong with a car that hasn't been driven for a while. I therefore plan to completely overhaul the hydraulic system. Advice as to what I will need and where to purchase it would be greatly appreciated. I am concluding that the system has not been blanked off as this would not be necessary without any pressure. By the way, I understand the language in your mail 02 July 2004 in which you say "... the brass thing sticking out of the hexagonal thing sticking out of the accumulator." It was easily recognisable! | ||
| Bill Coburn Grand Master Username: bill_coburn Post Number: 197 Registered: 4-2003 |
Indulge an old man my friend. I would invite you to our next self help group but it is a bit far to come. The switches are repairable. If you put a multimeter across the terminal and earth with no pressure in the accumulators the circuit should be closed. The charging valve at the bottom of the accumulators is where you may find gas but if the internal valve is working you should not. But if there was brake fluid there the spheres are cactus and will need new diaphragms. This will be the next thing to fix and expect to budget a big one for two this will include overhauling the valves as well. You can get the kits to do the switches and do them your self. You will need a very large shifter and a good vice (no comment).I'll get back to you as to where. meanwhile pull the reservoir to pieces clean it thoroughly replate it and the bits and repair any damage.Ask me about getting the sight glasses out! | ||
| whunter Prolific User Username: whunter Post Number: 71 Registered: 10-2003 |
Here in the USA. I send the accumulators to ALBERS BENTLEY ZIONSVILLE 360 S. First St, Zionsville, IN 46077 Phone: (317) 873-2360/2460 - Fax: (317) 873-6860 www.albersrollsbentley.com Typical cost = $300.00 USD each. A rebuilt accumulator valve is roughly $850.00 USD each. I rebuild the valves, the kit is cheap. Depending upon the mechanic, cost for replacement or rebuild of both valves and accumulators = roughly $3500.00 USD. Plan on using six bottles of RR363 to flush, bleed and refill the system. As I recall, your vehicle has fifteen bleeder screws that must be done in the correct sequence. You need the technical service information, before you begin this process. | ||
| Nigel Ralph Unregistered guest Posted From: 203.87.65.14 |
Hi Bill, I assume the charging valve is what I called the bleed nipple. If so there was no brake fluid present so I still live in hope that the bladder is intact. I took the top off the reservoir and found it to be full to the brim with fluid. As I still drive the car I put it back together until I have any necessary repair bits. Are there likely to be any or will it just be clean and replace? Thanks Whunter, that is just what I didn't want to hear. I have actually enjoyed fiddling around so far but $US3500 on todays exchange rate of .715 works out at $AUD 4895 and this will mean a little period of saving up my pocket money. My wife wants a new lounge while I think the present is perfectly good. Spending $5000 on the car right now would lead to a major marital. I shall get in some more RR363 as suggested. I have just purchased the cd set off Larry and am awaiting its arrival. Instructions as given on this web site however have been the most valuable information for me so far and I really appreciate everyone's time and assistance. | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 219 Registered: 4-2003 |
Take it easy !! Do you do the installation work yourself ? If so, UK prices are more sensible than the US or AUS silliness. You guys are being skinned alive on ridiculously inflated local spares prices, and you can fix all that at the click of your mouse by ordering elsewhere. By ordering over the Internet, spheres cost £100 / AUD$ 250. There are outfits in Oz which charge around A$150 for exchange spheres with a good 3-year guarantee also. Accumulator valve bodies exchange cost £120 / AUD 300 in the UK, but simply buy a seal kit for AUD$40 as a precaution as they practically never go wrong. RR363 in bulk is available in Australia at a very reasonable price. In a really bad situation, you will be out of the woods for around A$600 in parts, and a sensible shop will charge you max A$500 in labour. Look at the manhour schedules on Larry's CD's to confirm this. | ||
| Bill Coburn Grand Master Username: bill_coburn Post Number: 198 Registered: 4-2003 |
Nigel Start looking at lounge suites after you have done your personal laundry. I suspect George W is used in the States for accumulator repairs just as the Brits use HM to make some of their parts on Sunday (Her manhour rate is pretty steep). Prices this morning from Tom Small at Bentley Sydney, Valve Kit RH10067 AUD192-70 and accumulator kit AUD158-20. That includes GST. They are the full kits with springs whistles balls and bits. Your only problems are getting the accumulators apart and after overhauling re-charging them. The time assuming you have all the bits is one hour per unit. On the other hand if the halves have frozen together, you need to reinforce the frame of your garage, have a survey done of the block in case you find you have changed addresses and then employ four Sumo wrestlers to undo the things. I have just checked with Barry Sparkes at BS Services which you will be acquainted with and he is talking $450 per accumulator the valves are extra. If you are game enough to keep driving I would concentrate on getting the pressure switches working then at least you will have some idea of where you are. The reservoir will be brim full because the sight glases are filthy. Empty it and clean them! If the reservoir is too full it will squirt out through the filler caps into the bonnet pads destroy them and the under panel paintwork then dribble down the valances! | ||
| whunter Prolific User Username: whunter Post Number: 72 Registered: 10-2003 |
Hello Nigel Ralph I would rather you do your own work where possible. The service garages over here seem to think that if you own a RR or B, you enjoy spending large blocks of money. As stated, you should be able to do it all yourself for very little money, just be prepared for blood, sweat, tears and select cursing. Sorry if I shocked you, that is common for new owners. | ||
| whunter Prolific User Username: whunter Post Number: 73 Registered: 10-2003 |
Read this topic thread as an FYI. RROC(A) Web Forum » Technical Forum » Silver Shadow, Silver Shadow II, Bentley T-Series and T2 » Hydraulic System | ||
| whunter Prolific User Username: whunter Post Number: 74 Registered: 10-2003 |
Hello Nigel I e-mailed some hydraulic system information that may help you. | ||
| Nigel Ralph Unregistered guest Posted From: 203.87.53.83 |
Hi Richard, you chaps in Canberra are very fortunate in having each other to bounce off. Could you advise a contact for exchange spheres with 3 year warranty at $150? Also the accumulator valve kits for $40. Whunter's estimated expense certainly took the pleasure out of my tinkering. I have a friend who is a mechanic but recently he's been short staffed so I haven't been able to access him. He will assist when I get to the nitty-gritty (or maybe I will assist him). Bill, I've been driving the car for over a year in blissful ignorance. I do drive sedately. What is the most likly danger I am facing? Thanks for the contact names Tom Small and Barry Sparkes. Do I just wipe the reservoir out or wash it with metho. I've got 2 litres of RR363 and have ordered another 6. Is the 2 litres enough to replace that in the reservoir? There has obviously been a spill in the past as the paintwork below the reservoir is missing. The bonnet pads however are still in good nick. Rest assured I will not pull the accumulators apart. There is nowhere here that I can get them charged so the logical thing is to have them reconditioned by someone with the right gear, or exchanged. Thanks Whunter for chapter G. Hopefully my CDs will also arrive soon. | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 221 Registered: 4-2003 |
Nigel, I come from Canberra but live abroad. I'm trying to find the name of the outfit in Queesnland which offers very good prices on hydraulic components on an exchange basis: I'll let you know when I remember. I think they are in Rockhampton. As Bill C points out, the first thing you should really do is to fix the warning lamp senders. At least then you can do the brake pumping test to see if the accumulators are shot or not. Ideally, you would do a proper pressure test, but by doing the pump test at least you would have an indication. You may be lucky and find that all is well. If the pump test checks out OK but the brakes are not right, a pressure test will be the way to find whether the high pressure circuit is at fault. On valve bodies, a seal kit costs £18 in the UK. The full kit Bill mentions has all new springs etc and does cost much more. The full kit is nice to have but in my opinion overkill. Unlike some other people, I prefer to leave the valve bodies alone unless I suspect there is something wrong. They are very reliable and can be upset by an overhaul if you're unlucky. On exchange units, I have had them shipped to Canberra on many occasions from the UK for our T-Series. It's no more fuss than shipping within Oz I can assure you. I have purchased exchange solenoid valves, height control valves and the like, all sent to me by e-mail order from the UK against a credit card. Some price yardsticks from Flying Spares: Hydraulic reservoir: Sight glass £3 (although I make my own) Sight glass seals £2 Accumulator valve bodies £100 exchange Accumulator valve body seal kit £25 (there are cheaper sources, and for just a few o-rings or so that is even a ripoff) Accumulator exchange £120 (Healey Bros £95, Beare Essentials £100) Height control valve exchange £160 (Introcar £120) And so on. Try it once; you will be pleasantly surprised how easy it is, and you will save a fortune. I buy all my parts for the cars in Australia and my Turbo R here in central Europe (non-EU) this way from the UK and am very pleased with the service, and delivery time is no issue these days. Usually you pay no GST as customs can't be bothered, and of course you pay no UK VAT for export. It would be worthwhile to contact a classic Citroen garage. They could probably install new accumulator diaphrams fo you. If the pressures are still above 500 psi or so, they can usually just be regassed successfully in minutes. I have had that done by a Citroen guy in Queanbeyan near Canberra once. | ||
| whunter Prolific User Username: whunter Post Number: 75 Registered: 10-2003 |
Assemble your own RR&B Hydraulic system test gauge DIY Hello Everyone “Please” take these warnings seriously, personal injury or vehicle damage is not a joke! Legal Disclaimer: You assume full personal responsibility for attempting this DIY without a trained professional technician/mechanic or engineer assisting you. Actual use of the gauge is your responsibility also. This is published as a Technical DIY for Professional Trained and Certified Automotive Mechanics. "Danger, Warning" #1. If you see the gauge going to 3000 psi or higher, “STOP” the engine, have the vehicle carried to your local RR&B mechanic and warn them that the pressure is 3000+ psi when running, a defective accumulator relief valve can exceed 3000 psi and explode with enough force to break the engine block! "Danger, Warning" #2. Before connecting the gauge, even if you pumped down the system this morning, "if the system is still closed", pump pedal 120 times to drain system pressure again, "safety comes first, second and third" with this system. Note: I install the 3000 psi pressure gauge in place of the hydraulic system accumulator bleeder screw. "Danger, Warning" #3. “STOP”, Before Removing/Disconnecting the gauge from the system, even if you pumped down the system this morning, "if the system is still closed", pump pedal 120 times to drain system pressure again, "safety comes first, second and third" with this system. "Danger, Warning" #4. “STOP”, "ALWAYS" assume that someone has started the vehicle while you where away from it, "if the system is still closed", pump pedal 120 times to drain system pressure again, "safety comes first, second and third" with this system. Assemble your own RR&B Hydraulic system test gauge DIY. This is a picture of my "home made", RR&B hydraulic system test gauge set, you "can" make one.  A gas supplies company for metal cutting torches will have the gauge needed. The tube and adapters came from an automotive parts store. Total cost $54.00 USD for an average gauge assembly..... I assembled the test gauge myself, from common parts. The tube is a piece of American standard double flare ready made brake line (8inch long with fittings) from an auto parts store, $2.40 USD, the brake line can be longer, this was a convenient size for me. The adapter (Vehicle to brake line) is male bubble flare to female inverted double flare, $0.64 USD. The adapter (brake line to gauge) is female inverted double flare to 1/8 pipe, $0.87 USD. “Optional”: Quick connect high pressure coupling, pressure rating 4000 psi or higher, can be found at Automotive Instrumentation Supplier such as ( http://www.swagelok.com/ ), average cost $28.00 to $300.00 USD depending upon size desired and minimum order required. I use the coupling because I made a felt lined box to protect the gauge from my other tools and needed a coupling to separate the assembly for storage. There are other cheaper gauges The gauge head itself is simple: It is used in many daily applications Here are two cheap gauges that will work, rather odd place to get one for automotive use, but the cost is low. $9.50, Gauge - High Pressure 3000psi gauge Beer, Beer & More Beer Catalog D1095 $9.50 Gauge - High Pressure 3000psi gauge tells tank pressure. Left hand thread replacement gauge for our NADS regulator. D1098 $9.50 Guage - High Pressure (RHT) 3000psi gauge tells tank pressure. Right hand thread replacement gauge for most brands of regulators. www.morebeer.com/catalog.php3?secID=dispensinggas Here are some searches; you can get a better quality gauge for a higher price. Add the http to these and they will work, sorry, the search links would not post correctly. ://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=3000psi%2Cgas% 2Cwelding%2Cregulator%2Cgauge&btnG=Google+Search ://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=3000psi%2Cgas% 2Cwelding%2Cregulator&btnG=Google+Search ://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=3000psi%2Cgas% 2Cguage&btnG=Google+Search ://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=0-3000psi,gauge&sp ell=1 ://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=0-3000psi%2Cgu age&btnG=Google+Search ://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=gas%2Cwelding% 2Cregulator&btnG=Google+Search ://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=gas%2Cwelding% 2Ccutting+torch _________________ whunter ASE Master Mechanic Bloomfield Eurotech 45671 Woodward Avenue Pontiac, MI 48341 Work Fax 248-334-2363 asemastermechanic@juno.com | ||
| Nigel Ralph Unregistered guest Posted From: 203.87.64.239 |
Hi All, I'm moving ahead slowly with what I am capable of. eg Bill I drained the hydraulic reservoir using a thin plastic tube. There was a black coating over everything. The filter to the rear pump has a sizeable hole in it and while the fluid was draining I noticed bits and pieces of gunk flowing down the tube. The silver Paint? lining the reservoir is flaking away in some areas. I assume the whole system is gunked up and maybe some of the in-line filters are now completely blocked. Have not got to removing the glass yet. Will I need to renew any washers or gaskets when I do? Perhaps I should purchase these first. Whunter, I am a novice and will leave the specialised pressure stuff up to an expert. Thanks Richard. It would be great to simply take the accumulators off and exchange them. It really appears as though the whole system is **^#!* so every dollar saved is a dollar that can be spent on something else. I shall do as you and Bill suggest and work on the switches/warning lamp senders. I assume I get them from Barry Sparkes at BS Services. I shall get another filter as well. | ||
| Bill Coburn Grand Master Username: bill_coburn Post Number: 199 Registered: 4-2003 |
Right. The black gunk is powdered seals etc and is the reason for changing the fluid every year. The filters if you shop around can be regauzed in stainless steel. The reservoir will need to come right off. To get the sight glasses out you will need an Allen key - very small. The 'level' plate comes off easily with four cheese head screws which also holds the out sides of the frames that hold the sight glasses in place. The remaining holder screws need the allen key. From memory they are 4BA countersunk screws which can be very tight. If you get to the point of almost breaking the Allen key, soak them well with WD40 put the the side of the reservoir over a vice or anvil and place a broud flat faced punch over the screwhead and give it a couple of good whacks. That will usually loosen them The screws are available. Carefully remove any label on the lid by grinding the rivetts off and have the whole assembly including the glass holders and all the screws and washers preferably cadmium plated. Replace the low pressure hoses from the reservoir to the pumps. The glasses sit on O rings which need to be replaced. Can I add a temperate note to the wise caution that Bill Hunter has offered. The system wiill not explode should the accumulator valves fail or jam. The pumps are driven by push rods which are 'waisted' so that about 2800 psi they simply snap. I have actually done it trying to washer up a valve to give more pressure. You then have to pull the manifold and valley cover off to replace the push rod. For parts you have Tom Small at Bentley Sydney and for accumulator repairs there is also Ken Balmforth on 07-38564911 and Pleides Auto on 07 - 416 12512. | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 223 Registered: 4-2003 |
Bill, sorry for the slight spelling correction in this unforgiving age of precise computer cross references, but the firm is: Pleiades Automotive Hydraulics (Australia) Lot 3 Naylor Rd Gayndah 4625 (07) 4161 2512 It is a Citroen centre of very high repute, and sponsors CCCV, the Citroen Car Club of Australia magazine. They are one of the few oddball firms which supports our Crewe hydraulics despite their Gallic background. Once again, it's UK based, but this site refers to the Australian branch: http://www.pleiades.uk.com/ The French couldn't do it in Oz themselves. It is one of the Queensland firms I was trying to remember. Thanks. RT. | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 224 Registered: 4-2003 |
In case you are wondering where Gayndah is, it is near sunny Maryborough and Hervey Bay, Qld. Quite an odd spot for froggy cars you may think, but that is where Mr Pleiades himself has settled. We are very lucky. http://www.dpi.qld.gov.au/rlq/4803.html PS my father has finally dumped his BMW in favour of a new Citroen C5. And you thought your Silver Shadow was complicated !! | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 225 Registered: 4-2003 |
Food for thought is the Pleiades synthetic replacement for Citroen LHS fluid. Citroen used LHS in the same basic system as used, but chopped down, by Crewe, and using the identical perishable materials. I wish some authorised expert would bite the bullet and declare this a sensible substitute for RR363, which I am reasonably sure it is, given the clouds of uncertainty and corporate aplologies hovering over RR363. | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 227 Registered: 4-2003 |
By the way, genuine RH2619 accumulator overhaul kits (diaphram etc) cost £27 in the UK by e-mail order. That's just AUD 69. | ||
| Greg Churm Unregistered guest Posted From: 138.130.128.227 |
Hi Nigel I am a Citroen guy and can recommend Pleades in Qld. Why are they there in Gayndah; because the Hayseyhuths are there most probably, a trio of classic Citroen enthusiasts. However I am concerned that you are still driving the beast even though it has no brakes unless the engine is running. I certainly would not drive a Citroen in that condition even though we have some more backup than you with the inter-connection with the suspension. I have only run out of brakes totally once, when I boiled the brake fluid in the family Austin 1800 automatic. I was only doing 5km/hr at the time and glided gracefully into the neighbours fence. Even though it was 30 years ago I still remember clearly the feeling of utter despair as the car sailed on out of control at that low speed. What would happen if the engine were to stall in the Shadow, even at a low speed like that; over 2 tonnes of metal proceeding gracefully down the road out of control is not what I call fun. It could also be very serious. Hopefully regassed accumulators will get things back to something near normal. On a Citroen with a flat accumulator you can here the regulator cutting in and out rapidly but don't know if this is audible on a Shadow. Running the car with flat accumulators will lead to pump damage if allowed to continue, at least it would on a Citroen, another reason to get them fixed pronto before driving the car again good luck Greg | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 228 Registered: 4-2003 |
I can second that brakes statement with my Turbo R experience. A few years ago, after a few days parked, I put the beast in N to move it a metre down a steep drive to load the boot. Bad move. No brakes whatsoever. I was so shocked I forgot the parking brake and gearlever. It rolled down beween a car and a wall miraculously with 1mm to spare on each side, sharp left into the street to avoud a 20m sheer drop, sharp right onto the main road (thank goodness: no cars coming), then I remembered the parking brake. No power steering: how I turned it I can't imagine. I should have hit the starter, parking brake or park position immediately, but the sickening shock was too much and I was fully occupied draging the steering wheel around reaching 30 km/h in the end. New spheres next day. At least LHM cars have trowaway spheres. And yes, running the motor for long with dead flat or ruptured spheres can probably do damage as the accumulator valve opens and closes each cycle and the whole system pulsates. The pump pushrods would most likely be overstressed by the pulsations for a start. | ||
| Nigel Ralph Unregistered guest Posted From: 203.87.64.165 |
Thanks Greg and Richard, I was wondering why the Rolls was still going in what I thought was normal condition. Obviously when I get everything fixed I will be in for a shock. Can I clarify, its only while the engine is running that I have brakes? This is no different to any normal modern car! I have been driving my car for the past year (as I have said previously - sedately). Do you think I have done much damage to the pump pushrods (whatever they are). How can I check? Pleiades are closed until the 19th. I am holding off finalising my exchange/repair accumulators until I hear from them. Bill's contact Ken Balmforth is currently in hospital for an op. He has been most helpful. So to has Barry Sparkes. Driving without brakes is certainly an experience. In 1969 I drove a '39 Wolsley from Sydney to Perth and back to Adelaide. (This was before the Nullabor was bitumen). When the petrol pump died I put the petrol tank on the roof rack and gravity fed the engine. When the starter died I had to reach under and hit the solenoid switch. On the way back the brakes died and I had to stop by gearing down and turning the key off. It really was hairy driving through Adelaide. A couple of close shaves stopping at the lights when someone cut in front because of the space I had left. There weren't so many cars on the road then. I cannot find any indication that the self-levelling system has been blocked off (fittings not screwed up as far as the others) so I assume that the car has simply run out of pressure. This could well have happened some time ago. Am I likely to need new hoses as well? Where is the most economical place to purchase them? I think I need a new rubber (bush?) for the left hand steering arm coming from the wheel. There is a bit of movement and a clunk when the wheel is jacked up and moved back and forth. I very occasionally hear it also while driving. This car is going to keep me busy for ages! I love it. | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 231 Registered: 4-2003 |
To be clear, the brakes work purely on the accumulator circuit on cars after SS chassis 22118. Earlier cars had a manual master cylinder as the third system, which only works on half of each rear brake caliper, and is only really implemented to provide feel. When you stop the motor, the accumulators should have stored enough pressure to provide 50 or so further stops with the brakes. The pressure usually dwindles after a few days too. After then you're on your own. Any less than 20 stops means that the accumulators probably need urgent attention. If you have no brakes as soon as the motor stops I would not drive the car. What if it stalls for any reason at all ? A conventional vacuum system has similarities in behaviour. My BMW for example is good for just six stops until the booster is exhausted with the motor off. Then the brakes are extremely heavy like an early Shadow with no pressure left. But at least they always work. If the rear levelling is blanked off you will not see it. Blanking is done by placing a tiny ball bearing in the hose connections. You may price the 10 hoses at Bentley of Sydney, Tom Small. From memory they charge around $17 each, only slightly more than at a brake specialist and the same price as in the UK where they are £8 each. Do shop around. The local brake specialists do stock the hoses and may have a cross reference. For a complete hose change you will need ten brake hoses and three rear levelling hoses: Front calipers CD6242 x4, Rat trap CD6248 x 2 and for the rear brakes one each of CD 6243, CD6244, CD6247 and CD6248, and then there are the 3 rear levelling hoses, originally UR19935 x 3 (2 ram hoses and 1 low pressure return hose) but are also cross referenced to CD6244 like the LH outer rear hose in my book (you should check this). Some UK outlets like Introcar and Beare Essentials will sell you a brake hose set (10 hoses) for £75 as a benchmark, and then you will need the extra 3 CD6244 hoses for the levelling. | ||
| Bill Coburn Grand Master Username: bill_coburn Post Number: 201 Registered: 4-2003 |
Ok you win the petrol tank on the roof beats my platoon urinating in a bucket to fill an exhausted master cylinder on a GMC 6 x 6 truck. Co-incidentally I am fiddling with a 75 Shadow that has its original hoses and noticed one was quite wet around the metal crimped end. Ahah I said - there was no answer but I believe the best deal will be taking the whole set of hoses to the local brake shop which is licensed to do such things and get them to make me a new set. Given your location I would call Tom Small at Bentley of Sydney and get him to send you a set. I agree with Richard stop playing with yourself and leave the car home. Kill yourself by all means but don't wreck the car or kill someone else. Engines do stall!!! | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 232 Registered: 4-2003 |
Bill, Which is your hose shop ? Last time I went to Molonglo Brake & Clutch in Townsville St. Fyshwick just because I know the owner, John Booy, from years ago when he was at Commonwealth Motors selling Holden spares. He had stocks of hoses of all lengths, and from memory they were around $12 each. I'm sure these guys know all about which hoses are suitable for LHM too, as would Pleiades and the Citroen guys. I'm sure that Better Brakes etc are just as good. Just across the road from Molonglo B&C is the excellent industrial hydraulics shop (I forget their name) which has made hoses up for me. They made a braided fuel hose for my R-Type two years ago. | ||
| Bill Coburn Grand Master Username: bill_coburn Post Number: 202 Registered: 4-2003 |
Richard/ Apparently ACT Brakes are the only licensed 'makers of brake hoses' in the Territory. I haven't talked to them and frankly if the prices you quote hold up I don't think I would bother. It would be so much easier to simply take one off and screw the new one on. But I will talk to them and let you know. The other hose shop I have used is at the top of Gladstone Street. They seem to look after all manner of beasts from the largest bulldozers to small hydraulic motors. I seem to remember someone making up braided hoses for a Shadow but they were not a success. I will stand correcting. |
