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richard george yeaman
Experienced User
Username: richyrich

Post Number: 18
Registered: 4-2012
Posted on Monday, 14 May, 2012 - 08:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

A. T. F. on the garage floor.

Hello Everyone
I have a pool gathering on my garage floor pink in colour ATF.it seems to be dripping from the subframe cross member, There is also a lesser leak at the same area which is clearly Emgine Oil Your thoughts would be very much appreciated.

Regards.
Richard.
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David Gore
Moderator
Username: david_gore

Post Number: 1091
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Monday, 14 May, 2012 - 09:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Richard,

The engine oil leak from the rear scroll seal is either the result of over-filling the sump or a blocked flame trap. I suspect the latter will prove to be the cause. Another possible cause is leakage from one or both of the rocker covers.

The transmission leak is most likely from a worn front oil seal or possibly an unevenly fitted oil pan. As the transmission has to be removed to replace the seal, it would be good preventative maintenance to overhaul the transmission whilst it is off the car. To determine the precise location of the transmission leak, top up the transmission with ATF before washing the underside of the transmission housing with kerosine to remove any oil/grease then hose off with water. Take the car for a drive for at least 30 minutes then place clean newspaper/cardboard under the transmission after parking the car and leave for 24 hours. You should be able to determine the source of the leak.
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richard george yeaman
Experienced User
Username: richyrich

Post Number: 19
Registered: 4-2012
Posted on Tuesday, 15 May, 2012 - 02:21 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Thank you David

The bottom of my Engine and Transmition is very clean, I cleaned it while i was waiting for parts to do my manifold, I think i will try and replace the gasket on the transmition if that works it will have been an easy fix. Regarding the oil leak i dont know where the flame trap is i will have a hoke around, I cant access my Workshop manual at the minute as my computer has some irrecoverable error, Thank God Silver Shadows dont have a bunch of computers on board to brighten up a bad day. Cheers, Richard.
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David Gore
Moderator
Username: david_gore

Post Number: 1092
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Tuesday, 15 May, 2012 - 07:57 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

The flame trap is attached to the neck of the engine oil filler and is connected to the intake manifold by a flexible hose to provide positive crankcase ventilation. It comprises a aet of fine mesh filters to prevent a flame accessing the fuel/air mixture in the intake manifold.

These filters become clogged with oil and crud over time allowing engine blow-by to pressurise the crankcase and force oil past the scroll seal at the rear of the crankshaft. It is a simple maintenance job involving removal of the mesh discs, washing them with petrol, allowing them to dry and reinstalling.

The details are in the Engine Section of the workshop manual.
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richard george yeaman
Experienced User
Username: richyrich

Post Number: 20
Registered: 4-2012
Posted on Tuesday, 15 May, 2012 - 09:20 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Thank you David.
When i get it done tomorrow that will be another job struck of a long list, But i think it is worth the effort.And with help from all of you good people the list is getting shorter.

Best Regards

Richard.
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Richard Treacy
Grand Master
Username: richard_treacy

Post Number: 2507
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Tuesday, 15 May, 2012 - 11:30 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

David,Richard,

Even when the mesh discs are not completely blocked, I always find the mesh discs too cruddy with non-soluble carbon deposits to clean off with solvent or paint stripper. This even applies to car which has had its flame trap cleaned every 12,000 miles as has always been required. I always clean them out using a blowtorch. A small butane torch for $20 does the job fine as long as it has an air metering setup. With a reducing flame, the carbon crud burns off quickly.

I do not recommend poking the holes with a needle as it damages the mesh. Taking a few minutes with a blowtorch used conservatively ensures that the discs will last forever.

Very important is to replace all the o-rings at both ends of the suction pipe, not forgetting the one on the air intake horn. Unless the pipe seals there will be no crankcase ventilation to speak of. On cars where service people do not follow the very basic service requirements of these cars, for example where the flame trap is ignored, the o-rings are rarely in any fit state.

Owners are always amazed that cleaning the flame trap properly and replacing the oi-rings cures a cronically leaking rear main bearing.

The above applies to SZ cars too.

RT.
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richard george yeaman
Experienced User
Username: richyrich

Post Number: 21
Registered: 4-2012
Posted on Tuesday, 15 May, 2012 - 10:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi. Richard. David.

Disconnected the fire trap at the inlet side, Surprise! Surprise! no discs, the housing was quite clean, Reassembled it and will order new ones from Flying Spares,Thank you both for your help.
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richard george yeaman
Experienced User
Username: richyrich

Post Number: 22
Registered: 4-2012
Posted on Friday, 18 May, 2012 - 06:29 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Back again.

The ATF leak turned out to be one of the two metal pipes that run under the chassis adjacent to the A bank Exhaust manifold,Probably got disturbed when i was fitting the new gaskets,The leak is at one of the saddle fixers, Does anyone know if there is a repair kit available or has any ideas how to fix it.

Regards.

Richard.
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David Gore
Moderator
Username: david_gore

Post Number: 1096
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Friday, 18 May, 2012 - 08:54 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

This will be one of the lines to the oil cooler in the bottom of the radiator. These should be a combination of flexible hoses connected to the transmission and a metal tubes connected to the bottom of the radiator. The leak is most likely at the join between the hose and tube or possibly a small age crack in the hose itself. You must use a two-spanner combination [one on the hose nut and one on the tube tail] when working on these connections to avoid damage to the tube.

I would be replacing the hoses as a matter of priority as they are a neglected replacement item and become hard and brittle with age. They can cause major transmission damage if they blow as the entire transmission fluid is ejected within a very short period of time and burnt clutch plates from overheating can result depending on the driving conditions at the time. In the case of DRH14434, one of these hoses burst at the bottom of our 100 metre steep drive and the clutch packs had burnt out by the time I got the car into the garage. The transmission was full of sludge from the clutch linings necessitating a complete system flush, valve body cleanout and overhaul with a rebuild kit which I did using a B&M rebuild kit and separating purchasing the front wave plate used in the R-R version of the T400 which I sourced from a local transmission parts wholesaler as this plate was not included in the kit. Not a difficult job for a DIY owner who reads the instructions at least 3 times before picking up the tools and who has a suitable floor jack, high-lift car stands and a home-made cradle to facilitate dropping and replacing the transmission under the car. Much patience is also a virtue when undoing and replacing the miriad of fasteners on the driveshaft cover plate [I am assuming one is installed on the standard cars similar to the one on coachbuilt vehicles].
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richard george yeaman
Experienced User
Username: richyrich

Post Number: 23
Registered: 4-2012
Posted on Saturday, 19 May, 2012 - 06:46 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Thank you David.

The leak is one of the metal pipes,Flying spares quoted me 75 each plus 40 postage, I am going to try and make them out of 10mm copper pipe, hope it works.

Regards.

Richard.
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David Gore
Moderator
Username: david_gore

Post Number: 1097
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Saturday, 19 May, 2012 - 08:33 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Richard, I am not a great fan of using Copper Tube in automotive applications due to the inherent vibration that is present when the car is being driven. Copper is very prone to work-hardening from vibration which often leads to fatigue cracking.

I suggest you take the old pipes to a hydraulic workshop who service/supply hydraulic mining/construction equipment as they can easily make up replacement parts from proper steel hydraulic tube at a very reasonable price for you.

If you cannot find a hydraulic workshop, I suggest you source some 90-10 cupronickel tube [also known as Cunifer/Kunifer in some parts of the world] to fabricate the replacements. This alloy is better suited to your application than Copper tube.
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Richard Treacy
Grand Master
Username: richard_treacy

Post Number: 2513
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Saturday, 19 May, 2012 - 05:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

In Australia we just go to Enzed Connectors or the like for that kind of thing. You may be sure that they use the correct materials. There are similar outfits serving industry in any town worldwide. Enzed have just made up steering hoses and pipes for me for an S3 Conti, and oil cooler hoses and piped for the Turbo R. All are perfect replicas right down to the tiniest detail. Prices are around a fifth of genuine and have no freight penalty either.
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richard george yeaman
Experienced User
Username: richyrich

Post Number: 24
Registered: 4-2012
Posted on Monday, 21 May, 2012 - 05:42 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi David. Richard.

All under control, My neighbor is Manager in a hydraulic ram business and is makeing some up for me. Thank you for sugestions and advice very much appreciated.

Regards

Richard
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David Gore
Moderator
Username: david_gore

Post Number: 1098
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Monday, 21 May, 2012 - 09:10 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Richard,

How lucky can you be - your neighbour will be your best-ever friend if you ever have to replace the hydraulic brake lines due to corrosion .

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