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John Aravanis
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 213.5.29.164
Posted on Wednesday, 16 June, 2004 - 04:48 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hello from Athens, Greece,
any help greatly appreciated regarding the following:
Today I replaced the rear springs on my 1970 (SRH8685)}Shadow. I purchased aftermarket springs and removed the six spacer rings fitted on top, as well as the 13 millimeter spacer from the bottom, following the advise of the people who sold me the springs. The rear height with the car unladen was a bit over normal ( but this will correct itself said the people whom I purchased from).
These are heavier springs and look more beefed up. With 30 liters of fuel in the tank, (and since I could not load the seats with 270 kilos, according to the shop manual), and 160 kilos in the trunk I adjusted the height control linkages where I felt a slight resistance. With a bit more upward motion of the linkage ( door open-transmission neutral ),the rams would fully and fast actuate lifting the car about an inch more)}
Driving away from the car shop, everything seemed and sounded OK. Filled up the tank ( almost 80 liters) and took my family for a spin. Two adults in the front, one in the back plus one child. On every suspension movement I can now hear the rams make a noise as they extend and return to their unactuated position (?).
This is the same noise I heard when I had the linkages adjusted to their maximum extended position before replacing the springs.
To make a long story short (if possible), how do I adjust the height control linkages now that I have new springs? Am I doing something wrong?
Thanks,
John
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Richard Treacy
Grand Master
Username: richard_treacy

Post Number: 211
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Wednesday, 16 June, 2004 - 07:33 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

It sounds as if your solenoid valve is stuck open. This valve slows the levelling action whenever the doors are shut or the car is not in Park.

Try this:

With the ignition turned on, open the driver's door,and close it just enough for the interior lamp to go out. You should hear a faint click coming from the under the left hand rear passenger's place whenever the interior lamp goes on or off in this mode. That is the solenoid valve. If it does not click, then maybe the suspension is permanently on the fast correction setting, which is only meant for loading the car when parked, and is controlled by the solenoid valve.

As for the base height setting, I would adjust the linkage as follows. Find the point where the rams just start to lift. Back them off ever so slightly and secure them. Your springs may take quite a few years to settle even a few millimetres, especially if they are a bit beefed up, so don't concern yourself until the solenoid valve issue is certain at the earliest.
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John Aravanis
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 213.5.26.201
Posted on Thursday, 17 June, 2004 - 04:46 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Thanks Richard,
the solenoid does seems to actuate.
When I adjust the linkages as you suggest, will it be with the ignition on, and the door closed?
Also should the car be unladen?
John
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Richard Treacy
Grand Master
Username: richard_treacy

Post Number: 212
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Sunday, 20 June, 2004 - 05:55 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

To tell you the truth, I cannot remember for sure whether the ignition should be on or not before the solenoid valve is functional. However, I think it is OK with just the door open and the ignition turned off.

The main thing is that the solenoid is best in the fast position, ie it has clicked when the door is opened. This makes setting much quicker. I would suggest you put about 80 kG in the boot (80 litres of water in a drum) with the fuel tank full before setting the height adjustment in the way I describe. Although not exactly by the book, I believe that this is the best way to go in your situation.
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Bill Coburn
Grand Master
Username: bill_coburn

Post Number: 178
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Sunday, 20 June, 2004 - 09:15 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Can I dredge the memory banks here? The solenoid obviously operates electrically. It has only two modes high and low. The default position (ie with the power off) is the low setting. Switching it to high was experiemented with. Some cars required a door open (the door switches were in the circuit) others required the gear change to be in Park others in Park or Neutral. As an aside, it was important for the chauffeur to know how the system worked for the sake of decorum!!! You see when you load up the back seat with some 600 lbs of fat bums (this actually happened here to a local hire car a month ago) the system hopefully levels - that weight by the way is about the system's limit. The car then proceeds to the place of importance, the car stops and the chaffeur switches off the ignition. The load alights but the rams are still fully exyended and the solenoid is in slow levelling. And so you have this very smart car with its bum in the air emulating a a Chevy wobbler at a drag race. The trick is to leave the ignition on or the engine running and immediately the door is opened or the car goes into park the solenoid goes into high levelling and when the load comes off the car lurches up the height control valves exhaust the rams and the dear old thing sighs back to a more dignified stance!

Now it is important in the problem department that the solenoid does NOT remain on fast levelling. As John has apparently discovered the rams are working full tilt as the car proceeds down the road. Now apart from the wear and tear on the sytem there is a danger of the system developing a back up of the exhausting fluid which can actually apply the brakes. I have not experienced it but I am aware of this problem. My advice would be to disconnect the solenoid. The car is then on slow levelling until you can find the electrical fault that is switching it to high. If you think about it the solenoid is really a gimmick and quite unecessary. The Spirits not only don't use them but actually have a delay feature before they start lifting the rams. As to setting, I throw about half a tank of petrol aboard and with the car sitting level (remember to roll out the camber on the back wheels) move the height adjusters up until you meet resistance. Lock them there. That means that any extra weight will hoist the car up.
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Richard Treacy
Grand Master
Username: richard_treacy

Post Number: 213
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Sunday, 20 June, 2004 - 10:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

As Bill implies, the solenoid valve is candidly of no real use at all, and the later gas spring cars do much better without one. They are just fine thank you with the levelling speed set permanently more or less on the slow setting of a Silver Shadow.

When the solenoid valve leaked on my father's T-Series 20 years ago I simply blanked it out with ball bearings for a few years. That car is and has always been sitting at the upper limit of the required rear standing height, and the rams have only very rarely been called upon to help.

John's car seems from the description to be perhaps overly high at the rear, hence my suggestion that a full tank of fuel and 80 kG may be a good starting load to align driveshafts etc.

I am almost certain that the solenoid valve on my father's T works on the doors alone, but am aware that the function was implemented in a number of ways on different models (engine running in park etc).

My father always calls the solenoid a "rich man's toy" as it is actually a practically useless feature, but I did fit a new one eventually as I like everything to work, even the gimmicks like the solenoid valve.

Again, as Bill suggests, it would be useful to disconnect the solenoid valve wire (just unplug it and tape it up). If your strange suspension behaviour is cured you will know the cause immediately. Then you can decide whether you want that rich-man's-toy feature or not. Of course, someone may have gutted the soleoid valve so it works on fast all the time. In that case, ball bearings at the hydraulic joints are called for to return the low setting.
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John Aravanis
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 213.5.27.37
Posted on Monday, 21 June, 2004 - 05:42 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Wow, thanks for all the feedback( or brainstorming?).
Getting ready to take the car to the shop on Friday in order to adjust the linkages. As I pulled away, I have made it a practice to look behind and see what my trustworthy two month old(1970) Shadow has left behind. Everything looked clean in the front- but in the rear a pool of something oily. Good old taste method (bitter), guess what? R-363...... Rear brake fluid reservoir to minimum level...... Add 3/4 of a liter, drive to the shop and discovered that the height control (left) was leaking from the point where the actuating shaft enters. The right side was also wet. Have new (reconditioned) ones in hand and will fit tomorrow.
By the way the car will go into fast mode with the engine/ignition on and lever in PARK or NEUTRAL.
I will adjust as you mention, hope to get rid of the strange ticking/clicking noises from the rear when the suspension "works" under load, as well as a noise that occasionaly happens ( under rear load again) and sounds like driving over the highway warning lines(carved across the road) just before the toll stops. Someone mentioned air in the system, I even suspect a tire rubbing against an arch.But why would it when driving straight at 70 miles or 30 miles- seems to make no difference. Suggestions welcome!!
Regards,
John
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Bill Coburn
Grand Master
Username: bill_coburn

Post Number: 179
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Monday, 21 June, 2004 - 09:07 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Ah John no thanks are necessary you are a captive audience!!! Richard's remarks about suspension heights reminded me of a car that came over to Canberra from Wagga Wagga with a very saggy bum. I carefully measured, did the sums and sent the springs off to the blacksmiths. When they came back, despite leaving all but one of the shims out the thing sat up like a praying mantis. Fortunately the owner arrived while I was still standing there with my mouth open and he too was impressed. No problem he whizzed off to Fyshwick and had a sizeable piece of half inch steel plate cut which took three men to lift into the boot (trunk). And there it sat taming the recently liberated springs. I found the car (allegedly the last Shadow II brought into this country) recently,the plate came out after some months and it now sits at a perfect height after (we worked out) after some 22 years! God I am getting old.
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John Aravanis
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 213.5.30.8
Posted on Tuesday, 22 June, 2004 - 06:07 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Well friends, I promptly spent 7 hours at the shop today, my mechanic will not attempt anything unless I am around (shop manuals in hand-albeit not so often anymore). It's good to get away from the office, anyway. Removed the height control valves ( not an easy task, they seemed to be the originals (?). Also removed the restrictors. One was spotless inside, the other jammed with dirt/mud. Called it a day with the reconditioned valves, restrictors and new ram seals in place. Now, the old valves had indentions on the shaft so the arm could only be fitted on either 0 or 180 degree position. The reconditioned ones don't have these, so they are infinitely adjustable at any degree. No help from the manual, so it will be interesting to see what happens tomorrow.
Then I discovered that the front engine mount has the consistency of Jello.
One thing for sure, since this is my first Royce, you get hooked on these cars. I absolutely love it- and I have not had a single day of "pleasure driving" yet. The fact that I drove from Germany to Greece (1000 miles) without a hint that something was wrong(except half a litre of oil per 300 kilometers-later attributed to the non-existent rocker cover gaskets......) says alot about these automobiles.
When I arrived home, the oil filter (recently serviced as per German used car seller)disintegrated in my hands, the sump drain plug had a chunk of mud on it, the differential needed almost 2 liters of oil, and the rear sagging suspension and inneficient brakes (German seller: You'll get used to it, that's how a Rolls stops- or doesn't) were because the rear brake pump rod had snapped. Carburators leaked fuel from their jets and the list goes on and on. Two months later and not to mention the $$$ the Grand Old Lady stands proud.