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Jeffrey McCarthy
Prolific User
Username: jefmac2003

Post Number: 282
Registered: 5-2007
Posted on Wednesday, 02 November, 2011 - 02:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Having changed the fuel pump SRH20280 still won't start. The (new) starter motor etc. all works as it should the car just wont fire up.

Here is a photo of the distributor with the cap off, a picture of the Lucas parts kit and one of the sprung contact breaker.

The kit contact breaker appears to be slightly different and if installed wouldn't contact. I assume that the fixed contact can be adjusted by the contact adjuster screw on the side of the distributor (bottom right picture #1) to make this work.

3 questions:

a -Is this the correct part? There were 2 of these kits in the boot when I got the car.

b- If I do this am I going to have to adjust it using a spacer between the contacts? (I have a set of factory ones)or just till it touches?

c- Will I have to adjust it (or anything else) for such arcane things as dwell time etc. or is it a just a bolt in job?

If this doesn't get it started I'll (reluctantly!!) get the NRMA to tow the car to Moss Vale and beg a few lessons in basic automobile maintenance off the appropriate people as well as getting things like the coil and ballast resistor renewed.








Incidentally the little red wire in picture #1 is one I replaced this moring - it's an earth that had all its cotton burnt off - I'll replace it with the correct colour when I can get the correct sized wire.
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Jeffrey McCarthy
Prolific User
Username: jefmac2003

Post Number: 283
Registered: 5-2007
Posted on Wednesday, 02 November, 2011 - 05:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Just to answer at least one of my own questions - the correct sprung point for Shadows (9001 - 22117) is CD5627P available from Flying Spares for around UK20pounds. Presumably they are easy enough to pick up in Australia.



I'll pass the two I have on hand to someone for the cost of postage if they're the correct ones for your car. I can't of course guarantee that the part number CD3047 on the box is the same as the contents but they seem to be the original boxes and both contain the same assortment of all new bits.
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Paul Yorke
Grand Master
Username: paul_yorke

Post Number: 819
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Wednesday, 02 November, 2011 - 08:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Jeffery,

is there nobody local used to working on 70's cars with points? Preferably Rover V8's or similar, but Mini's fords etc are much the same.

It is an easy job once shown, but hard to explain.

You have the earlier twin points as spares :-(
The wire without insulation was probably a braid and needs no insulation really. It is made to be flexible because the base plate moves.
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Jan Forrest
Prolific User
Username: got_one

Post Number: 276
Registered: 1-2008
Posted on Wednesday, 02 November, 2011 - 08:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

To be honest setting the correct points gap in an 8 cylinder distributor is a complete PITA. The lobes on the cam are so small that it's very difficult to be certain that you've got the tail of the moving contact on the very top of one. Anywhere either side of this and the actual working gap will be wider than it should be. Fortunately there's a bit of 'play' in the measurements so you should aim to get your points right in the middle of the range. This will ensure that they shouldn't be too wide if you've missed the top of the cam nor too narrow if you have got it right.

As for the adjustment itself, this is carried out with the aid of a set of 'feeler gauges'. These are precisely honed fingers of steel with their real thickness etched onto them and you use them to measure tiny gaps by seeing which such finger or combination of them can be just slid into the gap without wobbling or binding. They come in sets which are Metric, Imperial or both and cost just a few beer tokens in any country. After that you can check the dwell angle with an electronic meter, but the points gap setting should be accurate enough if you've got it right. With all this done it's now time to see if you're actually getting a spark to the plugs. There are too many other things that can go wrong - even with the old points system - that something simple (wires moved, damaged or slipped off terminals) can soon cause the car to 'fail to proceed'.

NB. You should recheck the gap after the first 1,000 miles or so to allow for the new points 'bedding in' and wearing a little faster during this short period. While you're delving inside the dizzy it's good practice to temporarily remove the central screw and drip a little oil down the inside of the central rotor and then wipe a thin smear of grease onto the cam lobes.

By the way: Have the plugs and plug leads been changed any time in living memory? Either can prevent the car starting easily. Personally I recommend the NGK Iridium (BP5 etc, etc.) plugs as they don't need gapping and are guaranteed to last 100K miles without being touched unless damaged or fouled up by rich running/oil in the combustion chambers. In the UK you can get a set of plug leads for silly money from any branch of 'Bullseye Motorists Centre'. Unfortunately for most they seem to be unique to Yorkshire/Humberside. I don't know if the do a postal service.
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Paul Yorke
Grand Master
Username: paul_yorke

Post Number: 820
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Wednesday, 02 November, 2011 - 09:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

plus
oil the felt pad
oil the bob weights
ensure spindle is free
believe plugs gapped at 31 in box - need 25 for points setup.

Moss Vale trip might be a sound investment.

Although if you don't mind paying travelling expenses . . . I'll bring a set and fit them for free ;)
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Richard Treacy
Grand Master
Username: richard_treacy

Post Number: 2448
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Wednesday, 02 November, 2011 - 09:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Set the points to 0.015". Nothing fancy, just like a Holden. Any garage will know how to set points.

Worst case, ask the NRMA to start it. That's why you are a member. Say it was running fine, and be meek and mild about what you have done. These blokes love their jobs. Flatbedding to Moss Vale is extreme and will cost about $600 with the NRMA.

Mind you, poor firing on start-up is not uncommon if the motor has been stopped for weeks or worked on.

Before anything else, loosen the flexible air inlet duct and pour 50ml (or more) unleaded doen the intake. When cranking, joggle the throttle between 1/4 and 1/2 until it fires. That usually starts them. My friend around the corner does that every time he starts his S3 and Turbo R after a week or so. It saves time and works every time. As mentioned earlier, these engines neeed flooding when not started for some time.

RT.
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Jeffrey McCarthy
Prolific User
Username: jefmac2003

Post Number: 284
Registered: 5-2007
Posted on Wednesday, 02 November, 2011 - 09:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Jan - I had new leads installed around 12 months ago and the plugs are no more than 3 years old so I've been assuming they're an unlikely source of the problem, or at least not the highest on the list.

I get the full monty service/tune-up/various bits of necessary/preventative maintenance/upgrades done about once a year in Melbourne as well as various bits in between - the last full service was about 12 months ago. Next time I'm down there I'll ask Bob what spark plugs I've got onboard.

Due to a communication mix-up I thought the distributor had been changed over to electronic a couple of years ago - I hadn't ask for it to be done but thought it had been anyway - I remember asking if I should buy a spare to carry in the boot at the time.

Paul - there are local mechanics who know this stuff - the trouble is finding one who isn't in the habit of dropping your car off the back of his truck while he's doing it! I'd love to take up your offer but I'm not too sure if Qantas is offering any flights this week let alone subsidised ones...

I'll pass the twin points on to someone I know who has an early Bentley T.

Cheers,

Jeff
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Jeffrey McCarthy
Prolific User
Username: jefmac2003

Post Number: 285
Registered: 5-2007
Posted on Wednesday, 02 November, 2011 - 10:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Richard I'll give all that a go - except the bit about the local NRMA guy - who is never again being allowed within a bulls roar of my car unless it's to become voluntary road kill :-)

The NRMA lawyer I spoke to yesterday however may well be in the mood to pay for the flatbedding anyway as part of the repair deal.

I'll check the manual for the flexible intake hose location - I assume your not referring to the elephant trunk but somthing a bit closer to the carbies.
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Richard Treacy
Grand Master
Username: richard_treacy

Post Number: 2449
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Wednesday, 02 November, 2011 - 10:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I do mean the elephant trunk ! Just loosen it enough to squirt in a generous 50ml.

RT.
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Paul Yorke
Grand Master
Username: paul_yorke

Post Number: 821
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Wednesday, 02 November, 2011 - 11:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Any garage will know how to set points.

RT - I think you'd be surprised at how few can!

Remember that points have been replaced by electronic systems for about 30 - 35 years now. So very few mechanics under 30 have even seen them, let alone know what the hell they are and how to fit them! :-(
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Jeffrey McCarthy
Prolific User
Username: jefmac2003

Post Number: 286
Registered: 5-2007
Posted on Thursday, 03 November, 2011 - 07:50 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Okay Richard - the elephant trunk it is -that part is easy then!

Paul there are probably one or two local mechanics and petrol heads down here old enough to remember the joys of DIY roadside repair who I could ask to show me (Khancoban is hours from anywhere) - mind you they all drive new Suburus these days!
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Robert Howlett
New User
Username: bobhowlett

Post Number: 10
Registered: 9-2010
Posted on Saturday, 05 November, 2011 - 08:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

maybe this might be of some help Jeffrey
I got a set of points from Repco
Part number GL27v-C its a Holden /Leyland V8 73-74 ch.VF-VH
Chrysler V8 68-73 /Dodge V8 70-73 Phonenix
I googled the part number and looks like it costs $7.00. Hope this helps
RH.
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Jeffrey McCarthy
Prolific User
Username: jefmac2003

Post Number: 287
Registered: 5-2007
Posted on Tuesday, 22 November, 2011 - 06:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

For the benefit of anyone looking for the original single points for the later (non-twin points) Shadow 1 distributor in the future here is a picture of a Lucas set that I recieved in exchange from another forum participant with the twin points system.

Robert's advice above however is probably an easier search - they are no doubt the same item in different brand packaging.

In case the photo isn't clear enough the numbers on the packet are:

CS11
DSB111
54420850
1185 Y

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Robert Howlett
Experienced User
Username: bobhowlett

Post Number: 11
Registered: 9-2010
Posted on Saturday, 26 November, 2011 - 07:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Jeff

I hope this upload works, a few beers on a Saturday night an everything seems difficult .they sure are the same part I recon. New on the left and old one on right this is a Bosch part. My son works as a spare part interrupter for a generic parts company and It drives him nuts that so many parts are the same throughout modern car range with different part numbers.

cheers RH
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Jan Forrest
Prolific User
Username: got_one

Post Number: 287
Registered: 1-2008
Posted on Saturday, 26 November, 2011 - 08:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

It's not just the part numbers being different for the same component when it's fitted to a different car. A few years ago I ran a Reliant Scimitar GTE. The rear dampers retailed at around 80 each even though they were identical to the front one from a Reliant Robin. The latter cost 16 each!
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Robert Howlett
Experienced User
Username: bobhowlett

Post Number: 13
Registered: 9-2010
Posted on Saturday, 26 November, 2011 - 08:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

yep . i recon its going to be a university degree soon. its bewildering

cheers

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