| Author | Message | ||
     Jan Forrest Prolific User Username: got_one Post Number: 133 Registered: 1-2008 |
I could have sworn that I'd posted this thread/question before, but it seems to have vanished  Anyway here goes - again. I'm in the process of removing the rear springs one at a time; left side first for no real reason. To that end I've so far disconnected the hydraulic actuator arm, the bottom damper nuts and handbrake caliper, removed the check strap and the retaining caps from the drive shaft CVJ and yet the drive shaft doesn't seem to want to part company with the hub. I know that I'm supposed to also disconnect the torsion/anti roll bar (I'll do it anon), but I can't see it affecting the drive shaft's adhesion to the hub. Obviously I'm completely puzzled by this (and completely knackered, but that's another problem entirely) and could do with any observations or practical experience you may have on the subject my little Antipodean chumlets  Ta very glad in advance. | ||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 954 Registered: 4-2003 |
Jan, the following information is based on your car having the original drive shafts and has not been retro-fitted with the later Lobro units. I am presuming you intend to replace the wheel bearings. The drive shaft yoke retaining nut on the stub axle is torqued to 550ft.lbs and requires huge leverage to get it off. I used a 1 inch drive socket with a 2 metre extension arm to get enough leverage to crack the nut. You need to securely clamp the brake disc in a very securely fixed large engineers vice with protective wooden blocks to avoid damaging the disc during this process The problem doesn't stop here - if you want to replace the hub bearings, you have to press the yoke off the tapered stub axle. To do this, you need either a special jig or access to a hydraulic press of at least 50 ton capacity [and sometimes more]. DRH14434 proved to be a difficult case requiring over 100 tons to break the joint due to corrosion from road salt in the UK affecting the tapered seat. Always use new retaining nuts when reassembling and a proper tension wrench of at least 1000ft.lb rating to torque the nut. Using an everyday 250ft.lb wrench with a torque multiplier is not my idea of good practice as this torque is all that stops the yoke from spinning on the stub axle under hard acceleration. Hope this answers your question. | ||
| Paul Yorke Grand Master Username: paul_yorke Post Number: 589 Registered: 6-2006 |
Well - not sure if I should be answering this as it's directed at Antipodeans  - but . . . They are often just held on with stucktion. A long screwdriver between the UJ and hub nut should free the UJ. However. Do make sure that the inner UJ is not jammed. The check strap is there to stop the arm falling to far and letting the inner UJ pop out. Can you turn the shaft so the inner UJ is horizontal? Then try. If it is locking up, you may have caught your balls.  get you boot off and check. Get somebody to push the hub down while you slide it back in. If you're taking the shaft out completely. Make sure it's horizontal. take off the boot and then slide it out there. Hold all the balls and mushrooms etc and tape them up to prevent them escaping. | ||
| Paul Yorke Grand Master Username: paul_yorke Post Number: 591 Registered: 6-2006 |
"100 tons to break the joint due to corrosion from road salt in the UK affecting the tapered seat." David - I take it you had this corrosion tested and can confirm this was definitely UK salt! | ||
| Jan Forrest Prolific User Username: got_one Post Number: 134 Registered: 1-2008 |
Fortunately the wheel bearings seem to be still in good condition, so they can stay where they are until they show signs of failing. The CVJs are fine as well, at least apparently. All I want to do is remove the road springs as I think they might tend to get in the way of the replacement ones. Do you agree? Anyway; after a 'late night' and a good, long lie in I feel almost fit enough to have another bash at the job. I'll keep you appraised of any other problems if (when?) they crop up. Keep the faith  | ||
| Brian Vogel New User Username: guyslp Post Number: 5 Registered: 6-2009 |
Jan, Am I safe in presuming that you'll also be replacing the rear shock absorbers? If so, please let me know if you find any excellent technique(s) for removing the height control rams. I was going to replace my springs last summer, but gave up after having no luck freeing up the rams to do the shock absorber replacement. I was even damaging the teeth around the bottom of the ram by using a zip gun. If I have another go at this I think I'll use the technique I know someone else used for freeing up an accumulator on an SZ car, and that's putting a C-Clamp around the base, grabbing between a couple of teeth, and hammering away at that. In the meantime I used rubber spring spacers to achieve the correct suspension height and that's working just fine until I decide to frustrate myself again. Rebuilding the accumulators comes first, anyway. | ||
| Paul Yorke Grand Master Username: paul_yorke Post Number: 592 Registered: 6-2006 |
Brian, I assume you had the car on it's wheels when doing it. You often have to sacrifice teeth to get the buggers off. Make sure you are using a blunt chisel not a sharp one and a big hammer. File teeth back in the piston when you get it off the car. Grease it well when refitting. If all else fails I'm afraid it's a skinny cutting disc through the piston - let it fall through and fit a second-hand ram (and top cup if you still can't get it out. (£100) + seal kit. | ||
| Brian Vogel New User Username: guyslp Post Number: 7 Registered: 6-2009 |
Paul, Yes, the car was on the ground, not on the lift, when I was trying to accomplish this task. It was the only way I could keep crawling in and out of the trunk to curse and draw a few deep breaths before returning to work!! Next time I intend to use a *big* hammer, as I think that the hammer I had used was too small as was the zip gun. The zip gun, though, was very efficient at cutting into the base of the teeth. I believe I will liberally coat with anti-seize should I ever get these things out and put them in again. I gather if you do have to go the cutting disc route you'd have to cut around the "teeth skirt" first to remove that then cut through the whole piston itself. Given how difficult it can be to find replacements here in the U.S. (and expensive, too) it would have to be a real last resort!! Brian | ||
| Paul Yorke Grand Master Username: paul_yorke Post Number: 593 Registered: 6-2006 |
Hi Brian, just cut through the piston. It will then (obviously) fit through the hole and you can retrieve it when you take everything out from below. Hmmmmmm - unless you are not changing springs and dampers . . . . | ||
| Jan Forrest Prolific User Username: got_one Post Number: 135 Registered: 1-2008 |
No, I have no current intention of replacing or overhauling the self-levelling hydraulics or the dampers. Thank God they still seem to work adequately (at least for now) as any such work would require the complete removal of the boot mounted LPG tank. At my time of life, and with my poor physical health, that would be far more than I could manage these days. Back to the plot: After 2 full days work I've got one spring off  The only minor niggle is that I released the inner boot to check that the drive shaft hadn't pulled out of the diff. Unfortunately as I moved it to release it from the hub (brute force and ignorance finally overcame the decades of 'stiction'. thanks chums) it actually did fall out with all the rollers tumbling out into the dust and If there had been any metal washers/spacers under the bottom of the spring I couldn't say as all I found down there was a thick layer of rust on top of the otherwise still pristine canvas seating. They certainly knew how to make cloth 30 odd years ago, didn't they? To aid future longevity I've taken the opportunity to hammer and wire brush out all that rust and given the whole area a generous coating of underseal. With any degree of luck that should hold it until I'm forced to pass The Old Girl on to the next generation of happy Rolls Royce afficianados when our fearless guv'mint decide I'm too old & infirm to be allowed on the Queen's highways in charge of nigh on 2.5 tonnes of high speed metal! Frankly I've done more than enough for one day and will continue with the job tomorrow, although I don't expect to have both sides done before next month at the earliest as I'm booked for a long weekend away this weekend at another car club meet (Toyota Estima Owners Club). However I have one question re. the inner ball/roller race end caps. As you know they are strongly oval in shape and I assume that the shaft needs to be reinserted with the long axis of the caps parallel to the line of the shaft. Yes/no? See you around and thanks for all the help so far. | ||
| Paul Yorke Grand Master Username: paul_yorke Post Number: 594 Registered: 6-2006 |
the mushrooms I think your are talking about. They will only go in one way - albeit with a fiddle. Your balls, however, will need to be manipulated more carefully because they need to be in the centre of their run to slide in at all. You will know when you hit the spot, because they will slide in very easily. (keep them horizontal this time ) While it is out, run your finger inside the inner drive shaft housing where the ball runs. See if you can feel any worn, concave areas. If there is pronounced wear on the thrust side (going forwards), you can swap the left and right ones to prevent further wear and reduce wobbles. I take it there was plenty of oil inside it? | ||
| Jan Forrest Prolific User Username: got_one Post Number: 136 Registered: 1-2008 |
Actually there was very little oil in there, although it had been weeping gently from the bottom of the boot for a while before I could remove it. Obviously I'll fill it up again once everything is back together as detailed in the manual (or did I see it in one of the T-Topics?). By the way: What grade of oil is best? I've got a supply of several grades from 20W50 to EP 80W90. | ||
| Paul Yorke Grand Master Username: paul_yorke Post Number: 595 Registered: 6-2006 |
EP 80W90 There's not a great deal in there. But it should be checked and filled every year . . . when you grease the outer UJ's ;D | ||
| Jan Forrest Prolific User Username: got_one Post Number: 137 Registered: 1-2008 |
150mls each side according to the manual. Fortunately I've got almost a litre left over from refilling the front & rear diffs and transfer box on the Toyota.
Don't forget all the steering joints! | ||
| Jan Forrest Prolific User Username: got_one Post Number: 139 Registered: 1-2008 |
Day 3: One side finished and surprisingly few parts 'left over'. At least The old Girl looks a lot perkier - from the left hand side only. Frankly the job has left me so exhausted and with far too many muscle strains that I'll leave the other side until I get back from my long weekend away. I doubt the other side will be any easier or quicker, but at least I now know what I'm in for. There's one small advantage: There's no exhaust system to work around on that side. | ||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 955 Registered: 4-2003 |
Paul, The salt was definitely of UK origin but certainly not "Maldon" quality. DRH14434 spent the first 12 years of her life in Yorkshire before being liberated and shipped to a new life on the other side of the world where road salt is not part of everyday life. Jan - "onward ever onward"; enjoy your achievements and success in preserving "the old girl". | ||
| Jan Forrest Prolific User Username: got_one Post Number: 148 Registered: 1-2008 |
Well ... It's all done and dusted. Finally! I know it's been a while, but I've been distracted with other things: Such as getting my trailer tent fit for human habitation. Then I was made 'an offer I couldn't refuse' on a caravan, so that had work to be done on it and the trailer tent needed some work so I could sell it on. Sold my RIB & trailer and the old tent while I was having a clearout. It doesn't help that I reassembled the first side incorrectly (which I noticed when I did the other side) and the weather hasn't always helped. In fact I spent the last half hour today crawling in a deepening puddle of rain water to finish the job so as not to leave The Old Girl up on the axle stands overnight. Now all I have to do is sort out the fuel mixture (petrol and LPG), fix a small leak in the front exhaust box and get the air con regassed. Oh, and she needs a good wash having been parked under one of my cherry trees (black cherries, of course) while the ripe fruit has been dropping. Still, it's got to better than driving a modern clone-mobile with more computers than the Space Shuttle which needs a degree from Oxford just to check the tyre pressures  | ||
| Nigel Johnson Experienced User Username: nigel_johnson Post Number: 44 Registered: 12-2008 |
Congratulations Jan. A job well done. Geoff and I are about to do the same job on The Gracious Lady. A 1972 Corniche. We are about one and a half persons. Let me explain. Geoff had two new hips several years ago so anything where bending is required is left to me. We have been delighted to read these posts with everybody chipping in while you carry on with your thread. Kindest regards, Nigel. | ||
| Jan Forrest Prolific User Username: got_one Post Number: 149 Registered: 1-2008 |
I know pretty much how Geoff feels. I sometimes wish I could get a few artificial joints. Then I remember how my late mother wore her new knee out in half its projected lifespan! She just wouldn't give up on her 'old-time' dancing 3 times a week. Even when she had to use a mobility scooter and was half blinded by cataracts and glaucoma she still insisted that I site my caravan permanently just South of Scarborough so she could spend the Summers there watching the pleasure/leisure boats being launched and returning. Then she would spend 3 or 4 months in Spain during the Winters. They made some tough women back in WW1, didn't they? By definition I've inherited half my genes from her. As for my late father; if I were to tell you what he got up to during WW2 you'd think I was taking it from one of the old war comics. That's the other half of my genetic makeup. Unfortunately it just makes me pig-headed and obstinate. When I set my mind on a task I just can't let it go until it's finished - even if I have to leave it for a bit while I do something else. That's why I've always got at least 4 jobs 'in progress' at any one time and another 2 or 3 simmering at the back of my mind. In the meantime I can live with the osteo-arthrosis, the spinal spondylosis, the ankylosing spondylosis, the Type II diabetes, the hypertension, the high cholesterol, the congestive & degenerative heart disease and even the angina (as if I have a choice ), but it's the psoriatic arthritis that really gets me down. At times I can't walk except on perfectly level ground and I can only be grateful that both my cars have auto boxes and fully assisted brakes as there's no way I could operate a clutch or a heavy brake pedal at these times. Again, it's only my obstinancy that drives me on, despite the pain, to work on my cars as much as possible. I certainly couldn't afford to run a Rolls otherwise. Anyway: Another job down, only several dozen to go ... Still ... you have to laugh, don't you? | ||
| Peter Talbot Experienced User Username: squerryes Post Number: 30 Registered: 7-2010 |
I'm full of admiration for all the personal efforts you all put in to keep your cars on the road in A1 condition. These days, what with advancing years and general infirmity, I now just phone Charles at Ghost Motors, D41FUL is picked up, sorted, returned. Not my route of choice but, when even holding a spanner for a few minutes is difficult, one must adapt. Peter} |
