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Richard Treacy
Grand Master
Username: richard_treacy

Post Number: 1006
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Saturday, 10 June, 2006 - 12:07 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

There is a gentleman in the USA sourcing a batch of the very rare exhaust manifolds for these cars from a foundry in India. They may be chosen in cast iron or stainless steel, and at least one set is in service in the USA. The quality is said to be outstanding.

I suggest anyone interested email him.

His name is Frank Hamad. He plans to make more in stainless and in the original cast iron. He is a member of the RROC Inc. and owns an S3 and a Silver Shadow. He may be reached for further information at:

Fhamad@yahoo.com
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Richard Treacy
Grand Master
Username: richard_treacy

Post Number: 1007
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Saturday, 10 June, 2006 - 12:16 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Below is a photo of a pair of new stailess steel exhaust manifolds in front of the perished originals of a Silver Cloud.
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Robert Wort
Grand Master
Username: robert_wort

Post Number: 281
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Saturday, 10 June, 2006 - 10:23 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Maybe someone can talk him into casting new V8 Blocks at a reasonable cost. He could be a saviour for RR/B's and put an end to non RR/B engine conversions.
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David Gore
Moderator
Username: david_gore

Post Number: 588
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Saturday, 10 June, 2006 - 12:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Gentlemen,

A word of warning about the stainless steel manifolds - I desperately want to know what alloy has been used by the foundry. If the wrong alloy is used, there is a very high probability of thermal fatigue especially for engines subject to a high proportion of short-distance driving ["Sigma phase" embrittlement for the technologists].

Based on past experience with castings and forgings from this part of the world; my suggestion would be to buy the cast iron versions instead, stress relieve them by double tempering [550 deg Celsius for 2 hours each temper] using a competent heat treater before leaving them "on the shelf" for 3-6 months to "stabilise" before surface grinding the mounting faces true. This will relieve any residual casting stresses that could cause distortion and subsequent "blow-by" after the manifolds are fitted to the engine.
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Bill Coburn
Moderator
Username: bill_coburn

Post Number: 657
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Saturday, 10 June, 2006 - 02:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

My God David! My oven won't go above 260C I think. How about a really good session in the barbie!!!

Seriously hows about you talk to Mr Hamad and find out whether he knows what he is doing!
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Robert Wort
Grand Master
Username: robert_wort

Post Number: 282
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Saturday, 10 June, 2006 - 02:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I suppose this comes into the category of "There's no such thing as a free lunch."
It's a good cautionary note and we are indeed fortunate to have a metallurgist as a moderator.

It was something that never even crossed my mind, nor do I think with others either.
I note that Richard stated that Frank Hamad is a member of the RROC Inc. in the States, so maybe he may already be aware of the standards demanded.

However, should all these conditions be met (and the manufacturer should take note of your concerns), then it could be a real boon to those in need of such parts.

From an aesthetic point of view, I would prefer the cast iron version anyway as the stainless steel variety could tend to make the engines look like a hot rod.
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David Gore
Moderator
Username: david_gore

Post Number: 589
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Saturday, 10 June, 2006 - 04:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I have emailed Frank Hamad with my concerns and have offered to assist him as appropriate to try and prevent any avoidable problems. We need people such as Frank to provide the specialty parts needed to keep our cars doing what they do best - out, about and most importantly being enjoyed to the full by their owners, family and friends.

With regard to the engine blocks; I will contacting my counterparts in the overseas Clubs to see what is happening in this regard. I believe it will be possible to cast usable replacement blocks at a reasonable price provided it is arranged by people who know what they are doing using foundries who know what they are doing and with appropriate quality control facilities.

Almost any foundry with large enough melting capacity can sand cast a copy V8 block from a relatively cheap timber pattern; whether it is usable is another story completely. Recycled beer and soft drink cans are not appropriate feed for the melting furnace - design of the sprues, runners and risers for the mould is an art and not a science and costly experimentation may be necessary to get this aspect right - control of distortion and dimensional accuracy in the finished block will have a big influence on the final selling price of the casting.

One thing I am positive about is that it will be done successfully in the next 5-10 years if Crewe do not order further blocks for the R-R/B spare parts market.

Finally for my fellow mentor and artisan Bill Coburn; your bar-b-que with the help of a couple of minor enhancements will have no trouble in achieving 550 deg Celsius; in fact temperatures in excess of 850 deg [visible red hot] will be possible.
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Bill Coburn
Moderator
Username: bill_coburn

Post Number: 659
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Saturday, 10 June, 2006 - 05:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Well thank you for the accolades however misplaced but while the barbie is heating up I thought you would be interested to know that I took a firm grip of the genitals of the spares fellow when he was here for the ACT Rally and asked about blocks. He said they had ten newly manufactured and was flogging them for $30K! He went on to say that in common with many other parts so many small manufacturers are simply not equipped nor interested in small runs. With the block situation the final manufacturers almost laughed when they said they wanted 10 but it was all they could afford! Gareth tells me there is a fellow in Melbourne reknown for being able to weld the rectum back on to a passing pidgeon whilst in flight! There has not been a great deal of application there but he apparently has no trouble repairing cracked blocks and any distortion can be corrected by maching!

I mused about the soft drink can recycling and recall the Bridgestone scandal with cigarette butt ends moulded into new tyres!!!
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Richard Treacy
Grand Master
Username: richard_treacy

Post Number: 1009
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Saturday, 10 June, 2006 - 06:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

A quick comment on Silver Cloud manifolds: the two are identical, part number UE364. As a yardstick on price, genuine ones are available new for 205 at Introcar plus shipping for example, stress relieved and ready to use. Any decision to buy aftermarket may take this and the answers David receives into account. One downside of buying the originals is that we would miss out on a sausage sizzle at Bill's place.
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David Gore
Moderator
Username: david_gore

Post Number: 590
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Sunday, 11 June, 2006 - 01:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I have received advice from the supplier of these manifolds which indicates they have been inappropriately described as "Stainless Steel" whereas they are claimed to have been made from a Nickel based alloy. "Stainless Steel" is an internationally accepted generic name for a range of high alloy content Iron/Chromium alloys which may also include significant amounts of other metals such as Nickel and Molybdenum. Nickel based alloys are a completely different proposition to stainless steel in this application due to their metallugical properties and resistance to aggressive service environments. Selection of an appropriate alloy is determined by the environment where the product will be used and the method of manufacture. Nickel based alloys are more expensive than stainless steel due to the higher cost of Nickel when compared to Iron.

Based on this information and the comments from other contributors to this topic; I remain of the opinion that a properly manufactured cast iron manifold offers the best compromise between cost, appearance and service life.
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M Faircloth
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 205.167.79.37
Posted on Thursday, 03 April, 2014 - 10:49 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Gentlemen,
The manifolds in the picture above by Richard T. are on my car... the picture was taken by me in front of my Cloud 1. The manifolds have now been on my Cloud for 10 years and still perform perfectly. You can see in the picture of the polished set that are on my car that they have extra heavy duty "ears" that will not break as do the cast iron ones. Mine have now been through many 10s of thousands of miles and I am still extremely happy with them.
Mike in Naples

(Message approved by david_gore)

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