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Bill Coburn
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 203.51.25.156
Posted on Monday, 28 April, 2003 - 01:15:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Its a puzzlement. This car is used daily, is in excellent condition fairly high mileage and now has at least its third SU pump. The present pump was installed some 2 years ago and some months later burnt the points out. It was replaced and the same thing happened again. I suggested a blocked breather and a small hole was drilled through the cap to eliminate that problem. Six months ago the car stopped again. Abit of banging and off they went. I eased off the diaphragm tension and things have gone perfectly until yesterday halfway between Sydney and Canberra it happened again. This time my training of the owner paid off and he got home by belting the things with an old golf club from time to time. He travelled the last 180K without incident. Now I am contemplating fitting a 'pointless' pump with which I have no experience. Can anybody offer advice please as I am contemplating welding a large tank on the roof and feeding the engine by gravity!!!
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Richard Treacy
Yet to post message
Username: richard_treacy

Post Number: 2
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Monday, 28 April, 2003 - 02:13:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Bill,

I understand all new pumps from SU are breakerless, the mechanical breakers having been discontued. Try buying a new pair of pump solenoids and diagphram from SD Tuning in Lonsdale St, Braddon. Also, be sure it will work with positive earthing ! SD are great, and stock many SU bits. If the new SU pumps are negative chassis only, SD will advise what the alternatives are. They are also specialists with instruments, and will custom make speedo cables. Introcar among others may sell you a breakerless module to put in place of the points as well I think, but in any case I do know of suitable modules being available. All reports on breakerless pumps have been of 100% successes. SD may sell them too.

I used to spend many a time with the pumps in bits around Mittagong, especially on one memorable Christmas Day, missing Christmas Dinner in Canberra.

Regards,

Richard.
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Richard Treacy
Yet to post message
Username: richard_treacy

Post Number: 3
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Monday, 28 April, 2003 - 02:40:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

By the way, Bill, 70s and 80s Jaguars XJ6s use a single SU pump on each fuel tank, and the XJSs even use the same twin SU pumps as an S3. All these pump units will fit the S3 dual valve body. Jaguars chew through these pumps like mad. I visited the Canberra Jaguar dealer a few years ago. He had a large box full of near perfect pumps, and gladly gave me four for free. Worth a visit to Mr Jag. None of the pumps was faulty, all just needing cleaning and adjusting, so I fitted a pair to the original dual pump valve housing. Never again did I need to crawl underneath in 45 degree heat on Christmas Day to tune the pumps. Also, vapourisation is caused by heating of the low pressure side, not normally after the pump where the pressure keeps the fuel liquid. On the R-Type, the fuel line runs near the RH exhaust pipe between the tank and fuel pump. Plumbers' lagging from the tank to the pump cured the vapourisation fo me.

Regards,

RT.
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Bill Coburn
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 203.51.25.156
Posted on Monday, 28 April, 2003 - 11:14:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Thanks Richard. You have forgotten the Cloud is negative earth so there is no problem there. Like you I have bolted on armatures and points to the original body and with complete success. The problem in this case seems to be in the diaphragm tightening up to the point where the points won't toggle. As to SD I have dealt with them for nearly 30 years. Jim the blonde hunk who ran it has retired and sold the business to his son who whilst very helpful lacks historical experience (tautology)so I am about to call Midel in Sydney who are the Australian agents for SU and and get their views. Your remarks that the 'pointless' pumps have been so successful is one assurance I was looking for since they ain't cheap. I'll keep you posted.

Cheers

BBC
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David Gore
Moderator
Username: david_gore

Post Number: 9
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Monday, 28 April, 2003 - 19:27:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Bill,

Any chance your well-trained [but possibly parsimonious] colleague has purchased a tank or two of our notorious discount petrol containing 20%+ ethanol?

It appears the fuel pump diaphragms are very sensitive to ethanol and SU supply a replacement kit with siliconised diaphragms for use with fuel containing ethanol to get around this problem.

Just a thought worth pursuing!!
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Jim Bettison
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 203.166.57.11
Posted on Monday, 28 April, 2003 - 22:33:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I bought and fitted a pair of transistorised switches for the twin SU pumps on the MkVI, about 2 years ago; being associated with things electronic I had a predisposition to the possibility of long trouble-free life. And so it has proved until last month when the car wouldn't start - patently because the pump(s) weren't pumping. Took the pumps out, and onto the bench. They worked. Back into the car - no go. At that point, we did some basic checks. Long and short was that the battery was rather duff, and there was a suspect joint in the circuit. The transistorised devices need 10.5 volts, or more, to work. So, beware.
Found out another thing, too. Pumps are shipped out when new with either red or black PVC tape sealing the end cap. Red for a positive-earth pump, and black for a negative-earth.
But you probably knew this anyway!!!
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Bill Coburn
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 203.51.25.156
Posted on Tuesday, 29 April, 2003 - 00:33:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Thank you David and Jim. The bum petrol David I will have to check he may have grabbed a tankful in Sydney where he was for the day. Would it work that fast? Fortunately they castrate people here who would sell ethanol fuel and as far as I know Canberra has none to sell. Jim I didn't know about the black and red tape and I am pretty fussy about batteries so hopefully that won't be a problem. Anyway I talked at length with the guy from Midel this morning. Seems a fully transistorised pump imported from the UK can nudge AUD1000.They import the switches and build new pumps here for about $400. One will be here tomorrow. There is apparently no alternative pump as all others start with pump pressures of 3 psi cf 1.5 psi for the SU. He claims of over 2000 pumps he has sold only 7 have given trouble. Jaguar as an aside recommend that their pumps be overhauled every 12 months which is 'unexpectable' from the average owner. But now I am thinking that it is a year since I last adjusted the Cloud three pumps - I wonder. Anyway we'll see how the new wunda pumps work. Thank you all for your advice.
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Richard Treacy
Yet to post message
Username: richard_treacy

Post Number: 4
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Tuesday, 29 April, 2003 - 01:38:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Bill,

All those prices are crazy.

You can buy a kit from Burlen Fuel Systems in the UK to convert SUs to electronic for 40 online at

http://www.burlen.co.uk/services.htm

Postage is vey cheap as they are small and light.

Burlen is a very reputable setup. Count on delivery to your door within one week, and pay by credit card. Simple.

Part number is epk12N (negative chassis) or epk12P (positive chassis).

I'll buy two of each type for our two cars in Canberra.

Also, you can buy new complete single 1.5 psi electronic SU pumps in the US for just US$119 including valve body. I am sure they would sell you just the diagphram and armature for less.

That is at Shadetree Motors, who specialise in MG spares.
You can order online, by phone, or or e-mail:

kelsey@shadetreemotors.com

0011 1 925 846-1309 Voice/Fax - 3895 Mammoth Cave Ct. - Pleasanton, CA - 94588

Visit their site:

http://www.shadetreemotors.com/index-2.html

Regards,

Richard.
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Richard Treacy
Yet to post message
Username: richard_treacy

Post Number: 5
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Tuesday, 29 April, 2003 - 02:08:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Oh, by the way, Burlen owns SU, so you would be buying from their source !
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Richard Treacy
Yet to post message
Username: richard_treacy

Post Number: 6
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Tuesday, 29 April, 2003 - 02:10:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

By the way, Burlen owns the SU company, so any parts from them would obviously be coming straight from the manufacturer.
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Bill Coburn
Yet to post message
Username: bill_coburn

Post Number: 1
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Tuesday, 29 April, 2003 - 10:13:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Thanks Richard time precludes that this time but for the future - certainly!

Cheers

BBC
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David Gore
Moderator
Username: david_gore

Post Number: 12
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Tuesday, 29 April, 2003 - 19:56:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Bill,

Have no idea how quickly ethanol attacks the diaphragm but I would expect it to be fairly rapid. Effect of attack may take a little time to become apparent and older diaphragms should be first to show signs of breakdown.

Perhaps other readers may have first-hand experience to relate.
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Jim Bettison
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 203.166.57.11
Posted on Tuesday, 29 April, 2003 - 21:05:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Some time ago Burlen acquired both SU and Zenith, and are manufacturing - on a small scale - pumps and components. They can do a complete carburettor, or SU pump, or parts. They're not cheap, but if you want the real thing, then, they are there. I went direct to them when I was looking for parts for our MkVI syatem. They were efficient, reasonable in price (but I must confess that I didn't check their local agent's prices) and prompt (ordered a parts book and price lists on a Friday, local time; Australia Post delivered it in Adelaide on Monday late morning). Well worth doing a search for Burlen on the 'net.
I've no material interests in Burlen ...

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