| Author | Message | ||
     felipe heuser Experienced User Username: felipe Post Number: 80 Registered: 07-2017 |
Had a slow leak from the steering box (which eventually stopped after a year but already purchased spares) and put it down to main oil seal UR3344 rocking shaft to pendulum lever which we changed plus all the large bushings where one was missing and now it’s basically pouring down from the shaft…what went wrong? | ||
| Robert J. Sprauer Frequent User Username: wraithman Post Number: 542 Registered: 11-2017 |
I believe Ronny Shaver has a video on this. He has many Cloud vids on Youtube under "rollsroycenut" | ||
| Chris Carnley Unregistered guest Posted From: 109.156.42.25 |
Try self leveling grease or EP140 gear oil. (Message approved by david_gore) | ||
| felipe heuser Experienced User Username: felipe Post Number: 81 Registered: 07-2017 |
Thanks for the input and Ronny's garage is very good however he explains a very complex rebuild which I would never attempt… This was a ‘simple’ seal replacement by only removing one housing bracket and the ATF fluid is now literally pouring out whilst steering, hence it’s not gone very far…plus I noticed backing in the garage, steering seemed to slip as if out of a gear…and now they’re two puddles, one in front of where the original SB shaft leak began…I’m horrified, what has my mechanic done ! | ||
| David Balfour Experienced User Username: sidchrome Post Number: 184 Registered: 02-2009 |
Hi Felipe, It does sound a bit like a power steering hose failure. Perhaps in doing the seal the mechanic has disturbed a brittle hose that is now spraying PS fluid out. You need to get your mechanic to look at it in your presence (if possible)- either wheel removed or up on a hoist. I originally thought the seal might be in backwards, but a mechanic is unlikely to do something that fundamentally wrong. We can hypothesise all day, but a look at what is going on is the answer. Don't drive it back to your mechanic. Give him a call and tell him what has happened. If it is losing a lot of fluid, you probably don't want to run the engine and thus the PS pump when dry / very low in fluid. | ||
| David Balfour Experienced User Username: sidchrome Post Number: 185 Registered: 02-2009 |
I forgot to ask, this is the SCIII right? | ||
| felipe heuser Experienced User Username: felipe Post Number: 82 Registered: 07-2017 |
David…the mechanic fortunately worked years with SC & SS series at Crewe now retired… repair carried out in my garage, jacked up and wheel removed…a 1960 LH S2 which last year slightly dribbled what seemed from the shaft (leak stopped several months later for unknown reason but already purchased part so decided to exchange seal anyway) and mechanic replaced main oil seal (UR3344 rocking shaft to pendulum lever) undertaken by removing the bottom housing of three bolts, extracting old seal and replacing with new and reassembled again… (shaft was supported by a jack so not to slip out) Firstly whilst running but stationary, the steering (which was always perfect) developed a massive play, so mechanic adjusted something (unknown) and after seemed to steer as normal… Tested steering lock-to-lock whilst stationary…and left parked in my garage... During next few days leak under shaft again…cleaned area each day but definitely dribbling… Attempted a short run but when PAS was under pressure ATF was literally pouring out (running down shaft) and when manoeuvring into garage noticed a slip in steering as if missing or jumping a gear...(?) Now after a day not only one leak under the shaft area but also further forwards, a second very large puddle ! Mechanic will stop by tomorrow to investigate…having removed the housing could there be more seals to replace...also believe everything was marked as to replace in same order… | ||
| David Balfour Experienced User Username: sidchrome Post Number: 186 Registered: 02-2009 |
I think there may be some clues in there. That is an interesting set of symptoms. I wonder if the shaft was dropped a little out of position during the seal change? Another possibility is a blockage/restriction of the fluid return line. The steering box could become pressurised, and leak like a sieve. I can't wait to hear what it is. I hope it is a leaking hose as anything that requires steering box removal is going to be time consuming and thus costly for someone. Best of luck Felipe. | ||
| felipe heuser Experienced User Username: felipe Post Number: 83 Registered: 07-2017 |
Yes, a bit panicked by the thought of removing the box but how can it arrive to that with changing a seal…? Received a message from another source about an o-ring for the lower bearing/seal housing I’m unaware of and I can’t find it on any diagram, needless to say the parts supplier didn’t mention it… Plus applying sealer to the outside of the new seal, which also wasn’t carried out…brass will leak if sealer is not applied to the outer housing…however the part received was silver in colour and probably of another metal… . | ||
| gordon le feuvre Frequent User Username: triumph Post Number: 316 Registered: 07-2012 |
Felipe, should be straight forward job. I was always taught that rocking shaft needed to be supported by bottle jack otherwise a shim? would fall out requiring stripping box. The outer face of seal should be coated with Wellseal and the splines of rocker shaft covered with tape to avoid seal lip being damaged. The oil seal housing does have an "o" ring, part number UR4703 Can only think that rocker shaft did drop despite your man supporting it. Are there witness marks/dirt/corrosion on rocking shaft to indicate where it would have been positioned relative to seal housing prior to job. Your comment that suddenly there was free play would indicate to me that the rocking shaft has dropped relative to the roller cam? First though, I would recommend taking step back to look at evidence and try to actually determine if leak down rocker shaft or from seal housing-"o" ring or elsewhere. sorry can't be more help. | ||
| felipe heuser Experienced User Username: felipe Post Number: 84 Registered: 07-2017 |
Thanks Gordon and yes shaft was supported, splines taped up, and witness marks were made to re-position, however no Wellseal. Colleague suggested if shaft isn't loose then it shouldn’t affect normal functioning. O-ring has been ordered and on way...hopefully will sort leak... | ||
| felipe heuser Experienced User Username: felipe Post Number: 85 Registered: 07-2017 |
Not to start a new thread have yet another hick-up with a SCIII LH which happened during last night whilst in garage after yesterday's relatively long drive with several stops on route, not showing any visual mechanical problems, in fact running extremely well…however parked in the garage…this morning discovered a massive pool of ATF running out under the garage door. Recently removed trans sump and replaced correct seal refilling with fresh fluid. Noticed had been leaking from sump area more than before the change but haven’t had time for inspection. What seems the total capacity fluid leak from this morning is much further to the front of the sump and on the RH side…but as far as I know there’s no ATF fluid hose on that side (?) With a first glance nnspection with torch see nothing perished or split… | ||
| felipe heuser Experienced User Username: felipe Post Number: 86 Registered: 07-2017 |
Having looked closer see the steering ram with drops…this has leaked in the past however very little whilst parked and had it overhauled with a new seal kit…besides can all the ATF fluid leak out through the ram ? | ||
| gordon le feuvre Frequent User Username: triumph Post Number: 317 Registered: 07-2012 |
Felipe, 2 things. Firstly recheck sump bolt tightness, did you use gasket UG809? Secondly, when refilling oil did you make certain NOT overfilled. I always set level at mid point low/full. ATF fluid expands like mad when hot, did it expand enough to self siphon out breather? Leak point seems to indicate dipstick area. out of interest has your car got the vented torus bottom cover with a mesh in it. This was introduced as trans. were found to o/heat in city traffic? | ||
| David Balfour Experienced User Username: sidchrome Post Number: 187 Registered: 02-2009 |
Hi Felipe, do you really have two new leaks of the same fluid from different equipment? Could the ATF fluid be from the PAS circuit? The steering box is not far from the transmission and could squirt out under pressure onto said transmission. Check you PAS reservoir and transmission fluid levels. Perhaps ther is only once source that looks like 2. As the PAS uses the same Dexron as the Hydramatic, ther is no way of knowing the source when puddled on the floor just by examining the fluid alone. | ||
| felipe heuser Experienced User Username: felipe Post Number: 87 Registered: 07-2017 |
Gordon...yes have checked bolt tightness...and correct UG809 gasket...not overfilled...will check breather and dipstick...yes has cover mesh but taken off months ago...after every run similar leak puddle under RH trans sump... David...could be PAS and will ask...but the new problem of entire ATF leaking out from what now seems to be the steering ram is my foremost concern at present...(PAS reservoir is practically empty) Haven’t been able to ascertain more details and awaiting mechanic as not to obstruct any ‘evidence’ | ||
| felipe heuser Experienced User Username: felipe Post Number: 88 Registered: 07-2017 |
Latest update…mechanic been round and discovered it’s indeed the steering ram (SCIII) and incredibly the metal retaining ring under the ram cover plate (which is fixed with four screws) was hanging lose outside of the cover…how’s that possible? During the drive didn’t leak, however once parked without any pressure, fluid completely drained out ?? Ring is now deformed after pulling out, hence will order new…But puzzling is how the ring could escape from under the cover plate? | ||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 3466 Registered: 04-2003 |
Felipe, Possibly air entrapment in the system that remained after refilling and bleeding the system [you did bleed it after refilling??]. The entrapped air depending on constraints within the system would possibly act like an accumulator leaving the system under pressure after the engine was turned off leading to the retaining ring being displaced. | ||
| felipe heuser Experienced User Username: felipe Post Number: 89 Registered: 07-2017 |
When the Trans fluid was changed months ago system was bled, besides have done many miles since so that wouldn’t be the cause...I’m pleased to at least to know the origin of the problem but will have to wait until ram is removed to inspect...will update… | ||
| felipe heuser Experienced User Username: felipe Post Number: 90 Registered: 07-2017 |
Mystery continues for reasons to how retaining ring was pushed out, however after ram disassembly have confirmed a crack in the piston…whether this caused draining of fluid whist parked is unclear…next task finding a piston replacement and not constrained to purchase a complete ram ! Any ideas? | ||
| felipe heuser Experienced User Username: felipe Post Number: 91 Registered: 07-2017 |
A couple of updates…firstly found a new ram piston… (lucky) and awaiting shipment to assemble again with new seals… The second, more worrying problem with the steering box in my initial thread above, after endless research, also realising rocker shaft did slip down a bit (almost ready to send box off to UK specialist) found after opening top box cover plate, that the bearing had moved and whilst steering was completely deformed with a couple of the cylinder rollers dislodged inside box housing (found and removed) There’s an identical bearing in the bottom box housing and suppose finding correct replacement part shouldn’t be too much of a problem, and hopefully assembly relatively straight forward… In future, whenever changing seals on the steering box…two people needed, one to hold shaft securely in place and the other replacing cover…} | ||
| David Hughes Experienced User Username: wedcar Post Number: 96 Registered: 07-2004 |
Felipe. Thank you for the update. Regards David | ||
| gordon le feuvre Frequent User Username: triumph Post Number: 318 Registered: 07-2012 |
So God bless Bill Eddison who was trained at Ripon Bros in Leeds, UK and whom I learnt my R-R trade with. We used to use bottle jack to hold shaft up tight, then loosen seal housing and then, one to hold shaft other to remove bottle jack and slip seal housing off end of shaft whilst other held shaft up TIGHT. Refit bottle jack to relieve aching arms! refit is reverse. | ||
| felipe heuser Experienced User Username: felipe Post Number: 92 Registered: 07-2017 |
Absolutely, but one often has to learn the hard way... That said, still awaiting new bearing to replace and hopefully all will synchronise correctly once again... On another note and back to the second issue regarding the steering ram leakage and piston fracture (above), the new piston arrived without rings and consequently very carefully attempted removing rings from old piston where both immediately snapped in several places… New rings ordered, however how can they be placed without snapping ? I have also been informed the piston has a centre cone-shaped hole to which a pin lock nut is secured and could have been too tight, hence the piston had fractured… can anyone guide me to the correct unit of torque one should use to tighten? | ||
| Mark Aldridge Frequent User Username: mark_aldridge Post Number: 648 Registered: 10-2008 |
Gentlemen, I had a photo of a Cloud1 non power assisted steering box yesterday showing a crack around the bottom to the extent that the box had failed completely ie NO steering. Will be removing the undershields to check mine next weekend ! Mark |
