Oil Leak after Engine overhaul Log Out | Topics | Search
Moderators | Register | Edit Profile

Australian RR Forums » Silver Cloud & Bentley S » Oil Leak after Engine overhaul « Previous Next »

Author Message
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Patrick Hunziker
Experienced User
Username: pahu

Post Number: 33
Registered: 7-2016
Posted on Tuesday, 09 April, 2019 - 15:07:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hello dear People in this Forum.
A friend of mine and me got the a Job to overhaul a SC 3 Engine, more about this later... So we dismanteled the whole engine, had everything done on the Block and Heads and reassembled the Engine. After approx 30 min of running, there was Oil at the back of the Engine near the Distributor. We searched for the leak and found it between the Head and Block in the middle of the Engine wehre the Push-Rods are (on both Banks).

We are now wondering, where the Problem is:
- new Type Head Gasket with not enough Torque on the Bolts?
- Face of the Crankcase?
- ?

Any suggestions?

Regards Patrick
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Robert J. Sprauer
Prolific User
Username: wraithman

Post Number: 212
Registered: 11-2017
Posted on Tuesday, 09 April, 2019 - 22:20:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Was the deck of the block checked for flatness? Were the liners pulled and new O rings installed? When or if the liners were re-installed did they stand proud off the block? Did you refer to the workshop manual or by the seat of your pants? If you did the later you're in trouble.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Robert J. Sprauer
Prolific User
Username: wraithman

Post Number: 213
Registered: 11-2017
Posted on Tuesday, 09 April, 2019 - 22:23:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

watch these vids. These techs are the best ones out there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37vPjmpGP0Y

Several parts

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8pGuXzhf3o
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Patrick Hunziker
Experienced User
Username: pahu

Post Number: 34
Registered: 7-2016
Posted on Wednesday, 10 April, 2019 - 14:53:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

The Deck was checked, the liners where honed (but not removed) and the "stand proud" checked, everything was done and checked as described in the workshop manual...
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Trevor Pickering
Prolific User
Username: commander1

Post Number: 106
Registered: 6-2012
Posted on Thursday, 11 April, 2019 - 03:51:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Looks like a possible head gasket problem.
What torque setting did you use for the head fixings?
Why did you not replace the liner seals at the time?
There should be a .002" nip(upstand)on the liners when you fit the gaskets and head.
Did you use a light coating of Wellseal on the head gaskets as well?
Hope this helps
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Patrick Hunziker
Experienced User
Username: pahu

Post Number: 35
Registered: 7-2016
Posted on Thursday, 11 April, 2019 - 16:27:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

We used the values in the workshup manual (40lb.ft). I'm not sure if this is the correct value for the "new" Type of head gasket?
We didn't use wellseal (but is just ordered some)...
We where talking about replacing the Liner seals, my collegue and the the customer where against replacing, i was for replacing so it was 2:1 against... The upstand of the liners was measured on all liners ans is correct...
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Trevor Pickering
Prolific User
Username: commander1

Post Number: 107
Registered: 6-2012
Posted on Thursday, 11 April, 2019 - 16:52:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Yes that torque setting is correct.

If you remove the heads and use some Wellseal it should solve your problem.

Good luck

Trevor
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Robert J. Sprauer
Prolific User
Username: wraithman

Post Number: 219
Registered: 11-2017
Posted on Thursday, 11 April, 2019 - 21:50:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Use Wellseal and NEW headgaskets naturally.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov
Grand Master
Username: soviet

Post Number: 1360
Registered: 2-2013
Posted on Friday, 19 April, 2019 - 07:09:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Patrick I would have definitely removed the liners and replaced the liner orings/seals even if the engine displayed minimal corrosion.

Liner removal can result in cracking the aluminum block if the block is not heated correctly and the original RR tool for extracting the liners is useless for these old engines especially if they are corroded.

Kelly on this forum in Utah makes an excellent tool for the job but DONT remove the studs as well unless you want big disaster.

I assume you definitely had the cylinder heads machined dead flat and checked the cylinder head carefully for corrosion.

What a horror to have a nasty oil leak after full engine overhaul!
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Robert J. Sprauer
Prolific User
Username: wraithman

Post Number: 288
Registered: 11-2017
Posted on Friday, 19 April, 2019 - 07:21:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

You have to be very sure if you even need the head shaved. If too much is removed on a Shadow head it can spell disaster and is indicated in the workshop manual.
"Check before you assume".
I definitely would have measured the liners for roundness and pulled the liners.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Patrick Hunziker
Experienced User
Username: pahu

Post Number: 36
Registered: 7-2016
Posted on Sunday, 21 April, 2019 - 22:07:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

We checked the liners before honing... we also cheked after honing... We had new pistons made to our specification (diameter)... The Heads where measured for flatness and warp... The decision to not pull the liners was made with the customer and the engine workshop who did the mechanical work (honing, Valve Seats,...).

Why should'nt the studs be removed???
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Robert J. Sprauer
Grand Master
Username: wraithman

Post Number: 309
Registered: 11-2017
Posted on Sunday, 21 April, 2019 - 22:19:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

FYI making new pistons was not a good choice...the reason. the RR wrist pins are off center to minimize piston slap.
Watch this video. Ronnie is one of our esteemed technical advisors.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8pGuXzhf3o
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Patrick Hunziker
Experienced User
Username: pahu

Post Number: 37
Registered: 7-2016
Posted on Sunday, 21 April, 2019 - 22:29:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

we had the pistons made with the pins off center as the original pistons...
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Robert J. Sprauer
Grand Master
Username: wraithman

Post Number: 311
Registered: 11-2017
Posted on Sunday, 21 April, 2019 - 23:09:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Good move. Many are not aware of this.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Patrick Lockyer.
Grand Master
Username: pat_lockyer

Post Number: 2122
Registered: 9-2004
Posted on Monday, 22 April, 2019 - 03:54:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

A little time to put my engineers hat on, has the oil pressure been tested first, have known relief valves to be at fault!
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Patrick Hunziker
Experienced User
Username: pahu

Post Number: 38
Registered: 7-2016
Posted on Monday, 22 April, 2019 - 04:47:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

The engine didn't have oil pressure when we received it... more about this, when the engine is running... I will post the whole story then... now the oil pressure is correct...
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov
Grand Master
Username: soviet

Post Number: 1369
Registered: 2-2013
Posted on Monday, 22 April, 2019 - 06:46:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Patrick the reason the studs should not be removed is buried deep in past posts on the forum. Private message Kelly O. of Utah USA and he will enlighten you.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Trevor Pickering
Prolific User
Username: commander1

Post Number: 108
Registered: 6-2012
Posted on Monday, 22 April, 2019 - 17:37:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Sounds like the lack of oil pressure could be caused by the bronze drive gear that is driven from the crank being worn.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Patrick Hunziker
Experienced User
Username: pahu

Post Number: 39
Registered: 7-2016
Posted on Tuesday, 23 April, 2019 - 14:52:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

just a little pre information about the lacking oil pressure... Reason in the pictures attached...

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Patrick Lockyer.
Grand Master
Username: pat_lockyer

Post Number: 2125
Registered: 9-2004
Posted on Tuesday, 23 April, 2019 - 22:05:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Did the distributor seize up or was the lack of oil with the thrust washer causing a total jamming of the cam?

Or the tell tell ropy gasket fitment on cover plate.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Patrick Hunziker
Experienced User
Username: pahu

Post Number: 40
Registered: 7-2016
Posted on Tuesday, 23 April, 2019 - 22:32:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Nothin of the above... The engine has been overhauled by a specialist. But they didn't fix the plugs in the oil gallerys the right way... so the plugs where pushed out and landed near the distributor drive... > oil Gallerys open > not a lot of oil-pressure.... And that was just the beginning
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Patrick Lockyer.
Grand Master
Username: pat_lockyer

Post Number: 2126
Registered: 9-2004
Posted on Tuesday, 23 April, 2019 - 23:34:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

So how did the oil travel up where the push rods are on both banks when the engine was run with no oil pressure.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Patrick Hunziker
Experienced User
Username: pahu

Post Number: 41
Registered: 7-2016
Posted on Wednesday, 24 April, 2019 - 14:51:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

The Problem with the Oil is after the second overhaul of the Engine... We received the Engine running without Oil-Pressure and overhauled everything... after starting (after the overhaul) there was the oil-leak...
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Patrick Lockyer.
Grand Master
Username: pat_lockyer

Post Number: 2128
Registered: 9-2004
Posted on Wednesday, 24 April, 2019 - 17:37:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

So back to my first posting, what oil pressure is showing when leak occurs?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Patrick Hunziker
Experienced User
Username: pahu

Post Number: 42
Registered: 7-2016
Posted on Wednesday, 24 April, 2019 - 19:30:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

The actual oil-pressures are (engine warm):
@ 550rpm 2.35bar
@ 1000rpm 2.60bar
@ 1500rpm 2.80bar
@ 3000rpm 3.10bar (max. Oil-pressure)
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Patrick Hunziker
Experienced User
Username: pahu

Post Number: 43
Registered: 7-2016
Posted on Friday, 17 May, 2019 - 05:22:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Today i tried to order new Head Gaskets... FS and Introcar > not available... This is the answer to my Enquiry from FS:
In our opinion there is a problem with the current stock of cylinder head gaskets (both genuine and aftermarket – both of which are made by the same company) which causes some of the gaskets to leak immediately after they are fitted.
Bentley Motors are not admitting there is a problem and are not offering us any warranty so we have withdrawn them from sale.
Our advice, therefore, is that you purchase the two cylinder head gaskets directly from your nearest authorised Bentley dealer. We can supply you with all other parts required to complete the work.
We recommend that you establish prior to the purchase what warranty they are offering you on the head gaskets and that you obtain this advice in writing.
If you do purchase the gaskets then we always use Wellseal on the gaskets with all in-house engine rebuilds and advise that, once they are fitted, you seal the engine in order to check for leaks prior to fitting all of the remaining ancillary components.

So the Oil Leak probably is caused by the defect Head Gasket...
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Mark Luft
Prolific User
Username: bentleyman1993

Post Number: 263
Registered: 10-2016
Posted on Friday, 17 May, 2019 - 06:58:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Well THAT sucks!!
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

David Balfour
Prolific User
Username: sidchrome

Post Number: 169
Registered: 2-2009
Posted on Friday, 17 May, 2019 - 09:31:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Yes it does suck, and it explains the consistent leak on both banks. Of course this would not have happened in the old days because Rolls-Royce and Bentley's were being assembled with the very same gaskets as supplied as spare parts. The company would have been the first to know and would have been able to resolve the issue before it filtered through to dealers. Bentley, as part of the VW Group, I would have thought would be working hard to restore public faith in its organisation given what has occurred over the past few years. An ethical and open appropriate response from them might have been a real good idea right now, in my opinion.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Richard Greene
Prolific User
Username: benzjag

Post Number: 134
Registered: 12-2012
Posted on Friday, 17 May, 2019 - 12:23:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I bought a Bentley Arnage last year. Bentley Motors are absolutely a pain in the axx. They offer absolutely no support. You MUST go the dealer for everything. They act as if they are the only car manufacturer in the world. I'm seriously thinking about selling the car because of a nasty lack of support.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov
Grand Master
Username: soviet

Post Number: 1430
Registered: 2-2013
Posted on Friday, 17 May, 2019 - 12:41:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Crikey this is all most nasty. Perhaps greed for profits is the reason for such ungentlemanly behaviour.

I cannot and will never lose my love of both Marques.

Hmmn next questions are:

1. Am I going to experience the same type of treatment when I need cylinder head gaskets for my Camargue

2. Is it even slightly possible to make a cylinder head gasket?

Perhaps Jay Leno and or his team have the answer. I can't imagine its possible to find a parts supplier that stocks cylinder head gaskets for 1930s up Bugatti and Talbot Lago on the shelf.

Sometimes I do lament my classic car hobby lifestyle and wish I was collecting bloody seashells instead. Heroin addiction is possibly less severe on the bank balance perhaps.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

David Balfour
Prolific User
Username: sidchrome

Post Number: 173
Registered: 2-2009
Posted on Friday, 17 May, 2019 - 13:16:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Vlad, A friend of mine suggested many years ago I take up an interest in collecting postage stamps instead. The day may not be far away when postage stamps are no longer produced. He said this while helping me move a back axle C/W differential, so his pain was real. I didn't feel any of course because I was invested in the activity.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov
Grand Master
Username: soviet

Post Number: 1431
Registered: 2-2013
Posted on Friday, 17 May, 2019 - 13:34:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hello David, you own one of my favourite cars the Silver Cloud II. Closest I ever got to that was a SIII Bentley needing a full restoration RHD from Arizona with two aimed bullet holes straight through the back window. Perhaps somebody was upset. If only our cars could talk!

What is a CW differential?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

David Balfour
Prolific User
Username: sidchrome

Post Number: 174
Registered: 2-2009
Posted on Friday, 17 May, 2019 - 13:43:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Thank you Vlad. It's one of my favourite cars too. Sorry for the two letter acronyms like CW. - back axle "complete with" differential. I now see I accidentally had a forward slash between C and W which may have made it more cryptic.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

David Balfour
Prolific User
Username: sidchrome

Post Number: 175
Registered: 2-2009
Posted on Friday, 17 May, 2019 - 13:52:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Interestingly my car was sold in London in January 1962, but moved to Arizona in 1984, and stayed there for 25 years. A lot of bad things happened to the car while in the custody of the wealthy lady owner, mainly due to dodgy repairers and bills for maintenance that was never carried out. Some of the invoices she was given were simply expensive works of fiction. Both car and owner were repeatedly taken for a ride. I bought the car from her estate. I hope she is happy with the progress I am making from the afterlife. I think her late husband had a Corniche DHC. They had no children apparantly.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

David Balfour
Prolific User
Username: sidchrome

Post Number: 176
Registered: 2-2009
Posted on Friday, 17 May, 2019 - 14:01:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Wow Richard, I am sorry to hear you have had unpleasant dealings with Bentley. That's what happens when people are involved who don't appreciate the difference between a Bentley Customer and a VW customer. You are buying a lifestyle experience, not just a car with a Bentley. The company should be doing backflips to keep its dealers' customers happy. Perhaps at the Bentley and Rolls end of the market there should be no dealer. Perhaps the manufacturer should be at the coal face themselves. Elon Musk thinks so.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov
Grand Master
Username: soviet

Post Number: 1432
Registered: 2-2013
Posted on Friday, 17 May, 2019 - 14:34:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

David "expensive works of fiction" Ha ha ha, that my friend is indeed literature.

In other word the poor wealthy lady was getting fleeced by a greedy dishonest swine. How predictable. No wonder I never let another mechanic near my cars.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov
Grand Master
Username: soviet

Post Number: 1433
Registered: 2-2013
Posted on Friday, 17 May, 2019 - 14:53:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Richard do you mean a pain in Charlotte or London?

Sometimes it can be a disgruntled employee.

I would locate the owner of the business and diplomatically but firmly state my grievance. In the event no rectification and sincere apology was swiftly produced I would take my business to the nearest Bentley dealership in another state. You have the ability to do this on the east coast of the USA as your states are relatively close together unlike some Australian states like Western Australia which are massive.

You should be receiving top gentlemanly snappy service as it is after all a Bentley. Accept nothing less.

To sell your Arnage over this matter would be quite a tragedy.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

felipe heuser
Frequent User
Username: felipe

Post Number: 71
Registered: 7-2017
Posted on Monday, 20 May, 2019 - 22:35:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hello…rather than starting new post would someone know if this oil pressure gauge is correct for the SC V8 engine? https://www.ebay.es/itm/222206304331?ul_noapp=true

Whilst here, SCIII coil failed last week and to avoid shipping one item from the UK, we have a good parts dealer, therefore with correct specs (please help) would it be safe to purchase locally?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Robert J. Sprauer
Grand Master
Username: wraithman

Post Number: 429
Registered: 11-2017
Posted on Monday, 20 May, 2019 - 22:59:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Most test gauges of this type are not car specific. They are general purpose with a wide variety of fittings to accommodate metric or SAE threaded ports. Should work
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Patrick Lockyer.
Grand Master
Username: pat_lockyer

Post Number: 2161
Registered: 9-2004
Posted on Monday, 20 May, 2019 - 23:01:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

The spec is a 12v coil with primary resistance of
3.0-3.4 ohms.

Will have to search for the type.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

felipe heuser
Frequent User
Username: felipe

Post Number: 72
Registered: 7-2017
Posted on Tuesday, 21 May, 2019 - 00:01:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Many thanks Robert and Patrick…would you recommend another gauge?
And is a specific coil brand recommended for these engines?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Patrick Lockyer.
Grand Master
Username: pat_lockyer

Post Number: 2162
Registered: 9-2004
Posted on Tuesday, 21 May, 2019 - 02:26:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I would go for a old original Lucas sports coil or Lucas standard coil providing the primary is in spec.

Add Your Message Here
Post:
Bold text Italics Underline Create a hyperlink Insert a clipart image

Username: Posting Information:
This is a public posting area. Enter your username and password if you have an account. Otherwise, enter your full name as your username and leave the password blank. Your e-mail address is optional.
Please quote Chassis Numbers for all vehicles mentioned.
Password:
E-mail:
Action: