| Author | Message | ||
     Richard Greene Frequent User Username: benzjag Post Number: 77 Registered: 12-2012 |
I have almost given up what seems like a very simple problem on my 61 Cloud. My mechanic replaced the fuel sender which was not working with a new Jaguar sender for a XK140. It looked almost identical and it fitted perfectly. I thought it was working as it showed about 1/2. I filled up the car yesterday, and the gauge immediately showed past full but really was about 3/4 full. Second problem was the low fuel light now glows countiously. Before, it was not on. Today, switched the wires but the gauge remained the same. I then switched the wires back to the way they were. The gauge then showed almost "0" with low fuel light still on. I then put the wires together, but the gauge still registers "0". I used my test light at the sender and get nothing on each terminal. The sender has a good ground. The gauge works when I check the oil level. Any guidance would be great as I am at a dead end on what I thought would be a simple problem! Richard | ||
| David Hughes Frequent User Username: wedcar Post Number: 73 Registered: 7-2004 |
Hi Richard Have you sorted this issue yet? I am not an auto electrician - far from it. Do you still have the original unit? If so can it be repaired? Do you have the correct wiring diagram to assist you? Regards David | ||
| Richard Greene Frequent User Username: benzjag Post Number: 80 Registered: 12-2012 |
David, The "new" XK140 sender was defective. The company sent me a replacement, and it now works perfectly. My mechanic removed the original sender;therefore, not sure if he saved it. I apologize for not updating! Richard | ||
| Grassetto Eugenio New User Username: grassetto Post Number: 24 Registered: 05-2012 |
I run out of petrol because the fuel gauge of my S2 was indicating full and the reservoir light didn't switch on. Initially the fuel gauge show empty, than I press the botton for oil gauge and it works, than when I release the botton the fuel gauge show full. I trust it and I run out of petrol. Is the fuel gauge actuator serviceable without disassembling the tank? | ||
| Brian Vogel Grand Master Username: guyslp Post Number: 2990 Registered: 06-2009 |
I do not know exactly where the fuel tank is located or how it's oriented in an S2, but the spare parts catalog shows something relatively similar to the later SY cars (home market spec), but with the fuel gauge port on the side of the tank rather than on the top. Page 50 of the spare parts manual shows the fuel gauge port on the tank. You'd have to look at where your fuel tank is and how it's oriented to determine whether you can get to the port to service the level sender with relative ease (or not). Brian | ||
| Richard Greene Experienced User Username: benzjag Post Number: 179 Registered: 12-2012 |
Brian is correct! The sender is on the side of the tank. I had to lower the tank on my 61 Cloud to get it out. The space between the body of the car and the tank was too close to even wiggle it out. I used a sender for the Jaguar XK140 or XK120. It works perfectly! https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F360480955740 Richard | ||
| Grassetto Eugenio New User Username: grassetto Post Number: 25 Registered: 05-2012 |
Dears, I purchased the sender Richard suggested to me, the Jaguar XK one. This morning I got off the faulty one, I didn't need to get the tank off, but I found something different of what I was expecting, there were no floating arm inside, maybe it'is broken and lost in the tank, or I got off the wrong part, please see picture. The Jag sender fits the tank hole with the six bolts, but it is rotated of 30 degrees. I wonder, please advise, if the sender rotated works any way, or I need to drill on sender 6 new holes to fit the 6 tank bolts. I'm waiting for your suggestion.  | ||
| Geoff Wootton Grand Master Username: dounraey Post Number: 2186 Registered: 05-2012 |
I'm all for fitting substitute parts when they are the same, but the sender unit for the XK140 looks completely different to the Cloud sender unit. If you look at the picture on Flying Spares it looks like the floating arm and rheostat have broken off and are in the tank. Check out the Flying Spares picture: https://www.flyingspares.com/shop/rolls-royce-bentley-cloud-s1-s2-s3/fuel-system/fuel-tank/fuel-tank-s2-3-only/fuel-level-sender-ur358p.html | ||
| David Hughes Experienced User Username: wedcar Post Number: 100 Registered: 07-2004 |
Grassetto  The sender should fit OK, the arm may need to be bent to the correct orientation. The sender can be tested with an ohm meter for resistance when tank full or empty. Regards David | ||
| David Hughes Experienced User Username: wedcar Post Number: 101 Registered: 07-2004 |
Grassetto This link to the diagram in the S2 parts list is a view of the tank from the front. http://rrtechnical.info/sc/sc2/spares/3.pdf Regards David | ||
| Grassetto Eugenio New User Username: grassetto Post Number: 26 Registered: 05-2012 |
Dear David, the one I purchased is completely different, the float arm is streight, in the drawing I see the original is a 90 degree. I mounted the xk 140 sender as is. I full fill the tank and It doesn't work, I'm very disappointed, I presume that the straight arm is touching somewhere. The gauge show empty fuel tank instead of full. I don't know if I can bend the arm, because my old sender is dropped in the tank and I cannot copy or see it, so I don't know where to bend my wrong sender | ||
| Grassetto Eugenio New User Username: grassetto Post Number: 27 Registered: 05-2012 |
my questions are: can xk 140 sender work out for S2?, if yes what I need to modify to make it works? , should I drill 6 new holes to fit it straight.? Original sender braket has 6 holes, to match the 6 bolts on the fuel tank, first is up, fourth is down, xk 140 has still got 6 holes all around but none up and down. than the sender is turned 30 degrees | ||
| Geoff Wootton Grand Master Username: dounraey Post Number: 2187 Registered: 05-2012 |
Grassetto Have you tried using a magnetic pickup tool to remove your old sender from the tank. I know you are in Italia but I've put this link in so you will know what I mean. https://www.autozone.com/test-scan-and-specialty-tools/magnetic-pick-up-tool/wilmar-magnetic-pickup-tool/82515_0_0 Geoff | ||
| David Hughes Experienced User Username: wedcar Post Number: 102 Registered: 07-2004 |
Grassetto These sender units were fitted to many different cars, some in the top of the tank, some in the sides, the important point is the relationship of the float to the rising or falling of the fuel in the tank, this then via the arm, moves a "metal strip" along a coil inside the sender unit to give a higher or lower resistance signal to the gauge. If you are able to remove the sender from the tank, spend some time to to understand this relationship. If you are able to retrieve the original arm from inside the tank (that is of course assuming it is still there) this would give you a good indication of the relationship of the arm to the sender unit. Trust this helps Regards David | ||
| David Hughes Experienced User Username: wedcar Post Number: 103 Registered: 07-2004 |
Grassetto Also if you look at the Flying Spares website, for the S2 Oil pressure and oil level sender units, look only at the OIL LEVEL SENDER, will give you a good idea of how the items are fitted together. Also shows the relationship of the holes to the operating lever. https://www.flyingspares.com/shop/rolls-royce-bentley-cloud-s1-s2-s3/engine/engine-parts-s2-3/oil-system/pressure-sender/oil-level-gauge-ud4723.html Regards David | ||
| David Hughes Experienced User Username: wedcar Post Number: 104 Registered: 07-2004 |
Grassetto From a post on the American RR Forum "Further, the top (upper) terminal is for the low fuel warning light. If you check the resistance at this terminal, it is low (4-6 ohms) until the float in the gas tank has moved about 1/8-1/4 of its travel and then this terminal is open circuit to ground ( a very high resistance). The lower terminal is used for the wire to the fuel gauge. The resistance varies from about 4 ohms (tank is empty, float is at bottom of its travel) to about 80 ohms (tank is full, float is at top of its travel). You can also use these values to check your sender if you remove it from the tank, this is approximately the same resistance variation that occurs on the oil level sender in the sump. I guess this should be obvious since the fuel level gauge has the option to show the oil level as well". Regards David | ||
| Richard Greene Experienced User Username: benzjag Post Number: 184 Registered: 12-2012 |
Grassetto, Here's some photos of the "original" sender. Hopefully,this will help with any bends of the rod and which direction the float should be. I did not have any serious problems with mine but again, I took my tank out. Richard    . | ||
| Grassetto Eugenio New User Username: grassetto Post Number: 28 Registered: 05-2012 |
Dear Richard, this is vero different from my original one, it is more similar to the Jaguar one  This is the picture of mine outside side . | ||
| Richard Greene Experienced User Username: benzjag Post Number: 185 Registered: 12-2012 |
My MISTAKE! The pics are of my original XK 140 sender! It is NOT from my Cloud. I apologize! I did use though the 140 sender in my Cloud without any problems. I seem to remember I bent the rod on the 140 sender to like that of the original. I put a string tied to the rod & left about an inch before installing it into the tank. That way I could pull the string up to make sure it wasn't binding. It reads perfectly with the low fuel light working fine. I will see if I can find my original Cloud sender and take pics. Richard | ||
| Jim Walters Frequent User Username: jim_walters Post Number: 293 Registered: 01-2014 |
Grassetto, the part you have removed from your car is not correct. It is a type used in the later 1970's on other British cars. The XK140 one will work, just bend the arm as necessary. It should rotate to the correct orientation so the arm swings up and down without any issue unless someone has drilled incorrect holes in your tank. IIRC, the one you show will only fit the bolt hole pattern on the tank it is correct for as one hole was spaced differently from the others so that type cannot be installed incorrectly. SRH8505 SRC18015 SRE22493 NAC-05370 www.bristolmotors.com | ||
| Grassetto Eugenio New User Username: grassetto Post Number: 29 Registered: 05-2012 |
Dear Jim, i'm confused now. If the old part I got is not original, and someone before me has modify the bolt pattern on the tank, if I buy a new replacement from Flying Spares , it will not fit either. Better modify the Jaguar XK one I bought changing holes pattern according to the tank and modifying the arm. But how can I modify the arm if I don't get any clue on how it should be. Now the XK sender I fit does't work, it doesn't move I presume the arm is locked somewhere in the tank | ||
| Jim Walters Frequent User Username: jim_walters Post Number: 294 Registered: 01-2014 |
Did you try the XK sender outside of the tank with the wires attached first? Attach them to the terminals, place a ground wire from the sender housing to chassis ground, and operate the arm to determine which way it should be installed. This will also allow you to check the low fuel light operation. Something doesn't make sense here. Others have used the XK sender without modification. Lucas supplied the same sender as the XK but with a different arm, they would not have cast up a new housing just for RR. That type was used on just about every British car from the 1940's until the 70's. You should be able to guess on the arm shape. Make yourself a cardboard box if necessary with a hole in the side to place the sender. Make the box the same size as the outside of your tank, not the whole tank just a foot or so square with the same dimensions as the area around the sender hole. Use a borescope or a mirror and flashlight to ascertain the size and placement of baffles inside the tank that may interfere with the sender arm and float. Then you can just bend the arm at a right angle as shown in the parts diagram enough to clear the baffle inside. There may or may not be a baffle in the way, the arm may be bent at a right angle just to make it read properly. Once you have operated the sender outside the car with wires attached it will become apparent which is the correct way to mount the sender to the tank and how the arm must be bent. Once that is established, drill new holes in the new sender to match the holes in the tank if necessary. You can use the old sender as a pattern. SRH8505 SRC18015 SRE22493 NAC-05370 www.bristolmotors.com | ||
| Grassetto Eugenio New User Username: grassetto Post Number: 30 Registered: 05-2012 |
Dear Jim, wow! I' ll try. | ||
| Carl Heydon Experienced User Username: car Post Number: 167 Registered: 02-2004 |
Here is some information re the units on MKVI and R Type, some of which may help you. http://www.kda132.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Fuel-Level-Sender.pdf | ||
| Grassetto Eugenio New User Username: grassetto Post Number: 31 Registered: 05-2012 |
I have finally worked it out. The Jaguar sender is now there and he works, before it was not working because it was stuck with the collapsed old floating arm which remained in the tank. I made the old arm out, I tested the Jaguar sender which could move freely now without need to short or bend it. The only problem I got was to screw the nuts, after I drilled the new holes on the sender to match the tank bolts pattern. The upper and lower nuts interfered with the sender electric poles, that was the reason why the holes were set differently, it was very difficult to screw them. May be next time I will try to see if the sender works anyway if it is a 30 degres rotated. |
