| Author | Message | ||
     Francois Charlier Experienced User Username: vonplum Post Number: 29 Registered: 3-2011 |
Good morning, I have on my Silver Cloud3 a heavy réfrigeration unit in the boot. I need to fill on gaz R134a but I don't Know the quantity and pressure. Could you help me ? I didn't find on the workshop manual. thank you | ||
| David Hughes Experienced User Username: wedcar Post Number: 29 Registered: 7-2004 |
Hello Francois Normally these systems are serviced here in Australia by mechanics licensed to supply and recover the refrigerant from the system. Normally the service involves evacuating the system with a vacuum pump, checking for leaks, and then charging with the correct quantity of refrigerant (R134a)and lubricant. On page 27 of 35 in the Cloud 3 parts list, 6 lbs (pounds) of refrigerant is advised for these systems. Trust that helps. Regards David | ||
| Francois Charlier Experienced User Username: vonplum Post Number: 32 Registered: 3-2011 |
hello david sorry for my absence. you mean I fill with 6 lbs of refrigerant therefore about 2.7 Kg ? (thank you for the link on the parts list) I believe that the low pressure is 2Bar and High pressure is between 8 to 16 Bar. Regards Francois | ||
| Bill Payne Frequent User Username: wimpy Post Number: 65 Registered: 1-2007 |
Francois: Please check this: http://au.rrforums.net/cgi-bin/forum/show.pl?17/11339 | ||
| Francois Charlier Experienced User Username: vonplum Post Number: 33 Registered: 3-2011 |
I do not understand this link.: http://au.rrforums.net/cgi-bin/forum/show.pl?17/11339 this the link to this discussion. | ||
| Bill Payne Frequent User Username: wimpy Post Number: 66 Registered: 1-2007 |
I apologize, I thought this would take you to another discussion involving a link: This is the best trouble shooting guide I know of, especially since you have gauges, since this is for limousines, you can ignore the dual system disclaimers: http://www.manexcorp.com/images/limo_gauge.pdf You will need to convert from PSI to bar: http://www.centauro-owners.com/articles/psibar.html | ||
| Bill Payne Frequent User Username: wimpy Post Number: 67 Registered: 1-2007 |
You might also find some helpful info here: http://www.denlorstools.com/autoblog/2009/04/adding-freon-to-car-ac-gauge-readings-explained/ | ||
| Francois Charlier Experienced User Username: vonplum Post Number: 34 Registered: 3-2011 |
thanks you Bill for this link I ansterstand better the Air conditioning . I will check all the system. Just one more question When the workshop gives 6 lbs. Is that a weight of the Gaz ,not a pressure? Francois | ||
| Bill Payne Frequent User Username: wimpy Post Number: 68 Registered: 1-2007 |
In the USA, R134 comes in 12 or 16 ounce cans and 6 pounds would require 8 12 oz cans or 6 16 ounce cans. I'm not sure if the factory was referring to US units of weight or Troy pounds. | ||
| Jan Forrest Prolific User Username: got_one Post Number: 249 Registered: 1-2008 |
It's unlikely that Crewe would have quoted in Troy Ounces as that measurement is usually reserved for weighing precious metals such as gold, silver and platinum. However it is poor practice to just buy cans of the refrigerant and recharge the system yourself. As has been said before, you won't have access to the correct machinery required to accomplish the task properly. An A/C specialist will vacuum the system clean of all the old refigerant and/or any moisture that may have entered it and repressurize it with nitrogen and a UV florescent dye to check for leaks. Only then will he vacuum it again and refill with the correct grade and amount along with a compatible lubricant and more UV flourescent dye. In the UK the best place for this is KwikFit (but not for anything else!) as they will not charge for this job if the system does not exhibit a significant degree of cooling during the first month or so. IIRC they have a flat charge for virtually all cars around the £50-£60 mark. (Message edited by got_one on 28 September 2011) | ||
| Francois Charlier Experienced User Username: vonplum Post Number: 35 Registered: 3-2011 |
I confirm it is with a correct machinery and autorized man but I leave in France and nobody know the correct weigh of gaz on this car with the air conditioning on the boot. I hope a correct charge and there is no leak on my car francois | ||
| Jan Forrest Prolific User Username: got_one Post Number: 250 Registered: 1-2008 |
bon chance, mon ami  | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 2420 Registered: 4-2003 |
It’s highly illegal to charge the system yourself in Australia, so I suggest that this is the wrong forum for the topic. As such, the required mass of refrigerant should not concern us. In any case, the charge mass is a guide only. The charge is set finally by inlet and outlet pressures at the compressor with the compressor running at full load, and then only by a registered refrigeration technician. It is 4 years since I had a full refrigeration service on our T-Series. That means evacuate, sweep, purge, new receiver/drier and oil, and a new charge with R134a. The cost was only about $220 at the best outfit in our city. I had it checked and topped up this week for $25 by the same people, so going around buying cans of R134a would be of no benefit even if you could find them. The system needed a 150g topup in my case. It is allowed for a technician to top the system up with R134a if it still has operational pressure and needs no more than 250g to restore it after no less than 2 years. Otherwise, the technician is obliged to do a full service, This all dates back to recognising the evils of R12 and the necessity to be sure that the system is in good order before topping up. | ||
| Omar M. Shams Prolific User Username: omar Post Number: 203 Registered: 4-2009 |
Dear Francois, Don't get hung up on weight.Let that float and look at the two pressures as your only guideline. your suction pressure should be around 25 psig and your discharge no more than 250 psig. If you start with a fully evacuated system with a new reciever drier and the correct quantity of oil, then introduce gas until you reach a discharge pressure of 250 psig with the system running at max blower speed. That will result in an optimum AC system. Bon chance. Omar | ||
| Francois Charlier Experienced User Username: vonplum Post Number: 36 Registered: 3-2011 |
thanks Omar and I will try your advise after filling my A/C for Richard I agree with you but the technician man who work with automatic machinery (it is a garage of MICHELIN in France and approved garage which recycles the old r134 ) need to enter the right quantity of gaz r134. not the pressure The pressure is just a control after filling the system In my area there is no society working in air conditioning So I need exactly the quantity of Gaz R134 If I have not the confirmation of weight of r134. I will buy the r12a deepcool gaz with all pressure gauges to fill myself my A/C with your advise of pressure . Francois | ||
| Paul Yorke Grand Master Username: paul_yorke Post Number: 798 Registered: 6-2006 |
I would measure pressures as well. I don't think you will find a definitive weight for your car. Also if any components, or hoses have been changed in length or bore size, the charge weight will need adjusting. And remember that R12 charge weights are different to 134a in any case. So you would need about 10% less with R123a. | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 2421 Registered: 4-2003 |
Paul and Omar say it all. Omar and I live in countries where aircon is a critical feature on 99% of all cars, and R134a is compulsory here, so our refrigeration mechanics know their stuff. I am amazed that the French equivalen technicians are baulking at this, Then again, I do remember the woeful French aircons on early Citroën CXs (the local dealers eventally routinely ripped them out and fitted suitable systems to later CXs before delivery !). | ||
| Paul Yorke Grand Master Username: paul_yorke Post Number: 801 Registered: 6-2006 |
I can understand their hesitation in dealing with such a strange and 'expensive' car. The main problem these days is that 'air con technicians' just have to plug the machine into the car, type in the charge weight off the sticker on the bonnet slam panel. Press start and walk away. The machines then: evacuates, waits and monitors the vacuum for any change. Fill with nitrogen. Waits and monitors changes. If all Ok evacuates. Adds gas and oil to the figure on the sticker. Job Done! No Sticker no Chargee!! When you say you need to fill with 134a do you mean recharge , , , or are you changing to R134a from R12. If changing all the old oil will need flushing out and the compressor changing. Recovered R12 is allowed in some places much better gas for car air con (but not so good for our Antipodean friends) . I think the dryer unit is probably a major 'tank' affair so it would probably be best to find a way to fit a modern type dryer like a Shadow one. I can't remember what Suction and output pressures are 'normal' for a York compressor. Has the Aircon been working recently? If it hasn't, it may be worth while going the whole hog and fitting a more efficient Sandon Compressor instead. | ||
| Francois Charlier Experienced User Username: vonplum Post Number: 37 Registered: 3-2011 |
it is a recharge from r134 You are right ,the technician proceed exactly as your description. and in France It is a big problem with old car A/C I am not alone. Thank you for your help francois | ||
| Francois Charlier Experienced User Username: vonplum Post Number: 38 Registered: 3-2011 |
I have some good news . I find a technician who works in the cold industry. I can to fill my car only with the pressure HP and BP. thanks for your help and I will say you the result. Francois | ||
| Francois Charlier Experienced User Username: vonplum Post Number: 39 Registered: 3-2011 |
With a good technician . We fill the A/C only with pressure gauge , 2.7 Kg (6 lbs) gaz R413a and the air contionig works perfect. We will adjust on the next summer . Thank you very much for your help Francois |
