Oil Filter on B319LH Log Out | Topics | Search
Moderators | Register | Edit Profile

Australian RR Forums » Early Post-War » Oil Filter on B319LH « Previous Next »

Author Message
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Martin Cutler
New User
Username: martin_cutler

Post Number: 7
Registered: 7-2007
Posted on Monday, 05 November, 2007 - 04:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi guys,

B319LH is one of the last 4 1/4 blocks. The oil filter is a canister in the usual position, with a feed on the side, and an outlet at the bottom. The hole in the outlet is very small, 1/8 inch? The filter canister sits over the top of the outlet, with a piece of felt providing the seal between the filter and the case. The top of the filter is sealed, and is pushed down by a spring on the underside of the cap. The cap is held in position by a nickel plated bar with a bolt in the centre, that tightens down. The filter itself is very unike that in the 4 1/2, quite a bit taller, and not able to be pulled apart. Its only marking is "British Filter Ltd" written on the top.

First question, is there a crossover to an industrial or similar for this filter? I can't get one, looks like the one in the car has just been cleaned and replaced a lot.

How hard is it to slice into the line somewhere to put in a z9 adapter plate?

Cheers

Marty
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Martin Cutler
New User
Username: martin_cutler

Post Number: 8
Registered: 7-2007
Posted on Tuesday, 06 November, 2007 - 07:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Well, I went and visited John Vawser today, he had a felt cartridge the right size for my filter. So I broke out the paper element, and all the glue holding that in, and replaced it with the felt, using the old outer perforated steel. Felt discs either end, then the old caps on, and we are back in business. This filter was described to me by John as full flow, as it is not mounted on the big spring. ie, if the filter gets blocked, it comes away from it's base on the big spring. Mine, having no spring, is therefore full flow. Still want to fit a Z9 though..... Maybe a remote Z9 coming off the pipe running to the original cannister?

Cheers

Marty
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Bill Coburn
Moderator
Username: bill_coburn

Post Number: 932
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Tuesday, 06 November, 2007 - 08:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Martin be very careful with filters especially full flow. Someone some time ago worked out an adapter I understand that enabled a Z9 to be fitted. Problem was that the filter's in and out was the wrong way round for the engine in and out. When SS's first reached the States two owners thought they could save on filters and found a Cadillac item which fitted. All it needed was to transfer the perforated conical adapter on top of the old filter to the new filter which they did. For some reason the adapted filters collapsed and the engines were destroyed!!!
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Martin Cutler
New User
Username: martin_cutler

Post Number: 9
Registered: 7-2007
Posted on Tuesday, 06 November, 2007 - 09:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Gidday Bill. The Z9 adapter I put on B256MD came from the states, works beautifully! Been on there for a couple of years with 6 monthly oil changes, I'm very happy with it. If only I could use the same on B319LH, but, unfortunately, a very different cannister setup. I came up with a cross over to a hydraulic oil filter, but it was 5mm too tall, so wouldn't fit. Surely somebody has been down this path before?

The way it is set up, I had to suck out the litre or so of old oil out of the canister, and then top up with fresh oil when the new filter went in. Very tedious.....
Cheers

Marty
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

KC Saayman
Frequent User
Username: kc_saayman

Post Number: 68
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Wednesday, 07 November, 2007 - 02:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I am in the process or ordering a Flexolite screw on filter adapter. This will then take a standard Fram PH8 A screw on filter. I believe that this adapter was specifically developed for this purpose, and is used by the most discerning of Mk VI owners. The reason I want to do this conversion is because I have to order my filters from the UK, and find that I don’t always receive the same product, so I am concerned about consistent quality. I change my oil and filter every 5000 miles, so the spin-on filter adapter would be great to have, as I can source the filters locally.

Bill, I have heard about the issues relating to the direction of the oil flow. I would obviously have to source a spin-on filter of the correct “direction”, not so? How do you tell, is it indicated on the filter?

Kind regards to all

KC
South Africa
B108CF
www.ClassicRollsSA.co.za
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Bill Coburn
Moderator
Username: bill_coburn

Post Number: 933
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Wednesday, 07 November, 2007 - 07:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

KC/ I really don't know. Until the 'problem' with the filter conversion I had never thought about the considerations of flow direction. With element filters as used on Mk VI's and Cloud 1's you will note that the oil comes in one pipe and goes out the other. The internal casting directs the incoming oil into the cannister and the pressure of the oil forces it through the filter to the core of the insert then up the centre and out the other pipe to the engine. Spin on filters operate the same way in that the dirty oil gets pumped into the area around the outside, forced down the holes through the filter and then up the centre bit and into the galleries.

It was my understanding that the adapter that was unsatisfactory did not manage to line up the in and out bits of the filter head with the in and out bits of the spin on. If anyone has a more cogent explanation I would be glad to hear it.

However it is done, at least you are protecting your engine the best way we know. When I was last in the UK I saw a Mk VI chassis most beautifully (over) restored presumably exactly as it came out of the Factory. To my horror they had retained the original by-pass filter for originality!!!!!!!!!!!! That would have to be quintessential pedantry. If you run a by-pass these days I would suggest an oil change every 1000 miles or 2 months! Australia by the way had the first MkVI crankshaft failure very early in the piece solely due to poor oil filtration.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Norman Geeson
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 82.27.15.229
Posted on Friday, 09 November, 2007 - 06:01 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Martin

Your description of your oil filter on 5th / 6th November designates it as a by -pass filter without any doubt whatever. The fact alone that it is a 'British Filters Ltd' unit shows it can only be a by -pass and not full flow filter, and your accurate description confirms that point.


Both types of full flow filters fitted to 4.25 / 4.5 ltr engines can be easily recognised by large bore inlet and outlet pipes connected to the alloy filter head, no small bore pipes connect to these filters.

Both full flow filter types were made by VOKES, the first designated E60 (I believe), which had a six bolt retaining head system. These were fitted to the very early 4.5 ltr MKVI/SD/SW and very few used for later conversions.

In February 1952 the Vokes E 62 filter designed was raised. The filter canister being held to the head by a single centre stud and UNF dome nut. This filter was fitted to production R types / SD / SW and was used for all late conversions. All conversions using a six bolt head retainer have usually been salvaged from old MKVI engines.

The E60 / E62 oil filters have no internal relief valve and depend upon the strength of the internal spring and sealing arrangement to provide an oil by-pass if the filter gets blocked. Furthermore in both instances the oil flow is totally opposite to a modern screw on filter and the oil feed to the rocker gear and timing drive is not filtered.

This reverse oil flow situation means that any filter adaptor must be designed to reverse the oil flows BEFORE the oil enters the filter. The FLEXOLITE filter head is machined to reverse the oil flow automatically.

The later Silver Cloud 4.9 ltr engine, (but not 4.9 ltr R Continental or D type Silver Wraith) have correct oil flows ready for a straight screw on modern filter.

B60 type commercal engines have ALL oil feeds filtered including the timing gear and rockers.

If you are luck enough to own a Lancaster Bomber you would know that the E60 is an hydraulic filter design, hence large inlet / outlet pipes.

I trust this might explain a few things.

(Message approved by david_gore)
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Martin Cutler
New User
Username: martin_cutler

Post Number: 10
Registered: 7-2007
Posted on Friday, 09 November, 2007 - 08:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Norman,

Thanks for your info. Yes, mine has very small diameter pipes, hence by pass. Lots of oil changes I'm feeling.....
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Martin Cutler
Experienced User
Username: martin_cutler

Post Number: 11
Registered: 7-2007
Posted on Wednesday, 12 December, 2007 - 06:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi All,

Just spoke to a guy who imports K&R stainless steel micron mesh filters from the US. They can make it to any pattern. Pity I threw the old one away, the only one I have is the one in the car. He said it was designed for the oil to enter around the outside of the filter, and draw the clean oil from the inside of the filter. They are infinitely reuseable, just clean with solvent. Sounds like the way to go. Does the original setup on mine draw the oil from the centre of the filter? I must try and see if I can get another one tomorrow and get one made. Apparently they are mainly for aircraft use.

Cheers

Marty
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Bill Vatter
Frequent User
Username: bill_vatter

Post Number: 44
Registered: 9-2004
Posted on Friday, 11 January, 2008 - 12:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Marty,

The bypass filter is doing essentially nothing for you. Some review of oil differences over the years is in order.

With non-detergent oil the soot particles agglomerate into clumps that a filter can take out. Theses clumps of soot also settle out fairly easily and leave sludge deposits in the engine. With detergent oil, the detergent causes the soot particles to not clump together. They do not readily settle out, and therefore do not produce as much sludge. These small particles go straight through the filter.

A full-flow filter stops even less because it is designed to stop only particles that would be harmful to the bearings, like larger bits of dirt, metal shavings swarf etc. Soot particulate goes straight on through. You get the soot out when you drain the oil. If the oil gets sooty quickly, drain sooner because when the detergent is fully used in keeping the soot dispersed as small particles, additional soot will clump up, settle out and make sludge.

Late blocks like that in B319LH can be easily converted to full-flow filter using standard parts for an M-series Mk VI or later car. Actually the later parts for a R-Type are better because there is only one center bolt to hold the filter in place. The six bolts of the earlier filter are extremely laborious to work with.

Bill Coburn stated the flow direction with the full-flow filters is reverse of a modern car, and that is quite true. An adapter to use a modern spin-on filter needs to reverse the flow direction. I believe the Flexolite conversion does that. A few years ago I made a run of adapters that are shorther than the Flexolite. The Flexolite looks a bit like an hour glass, mine were simple-looking cylindrical discs, 1 inch thick and as big around as the filter head. Inside of the disc there are passages that reverse the flow direction. It sounds like you have one of my filters.

I believe I sent 2 of them to Australia. It was John Dare who bought them, one for his car and one for a friend. As luck would have it, the adapter turned out to have a weak spot, and I had to replace some early units. That included the ones sent to John, and I asked him to destroy the old ones so they would not find their way into someone’s car and cause trouble. He whacked them with an axe, and took a picture of the results, so I think there are now only two over there.

Making filter adapters was labor intensive, and I got tired of doing it. Flexolite made a unit, and I decided fine, they can have the business.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Martin Cutler
Experienced User
Username: martin_cutler

Post Number: 20
Registered: 7-2007
Posted on Sunday, 13 January, 2008 - 08:28 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Bill,

Yes, I have one of your units on B256MD, works very well. So it's a collectors item now ! :-)

I have been using B319LH every weekend since before christmas, done around 1000 miles. I changed the oil back in november, but as I am unsure of the history of oil changes, I will do it again in the next few weeks. I will see if I can get another filter, then get a stainless one made, then just keep changing the oil. Oil consumption has been undiscernable from the dipstick, and it has used no water. I added an inline filter to the top rad hose, which caught a lot of muck initially, but this is now clear every time I check it. Most impressed with the export suspension, quite a lot stiffer than the home market suspension on B256MD, the car handles very well. I will wear out the set of cross plies on it, then go to the radials, which should see handling improve again. The standard steel body is quite a lot higher than the Freestone & Webb, maybe 5 inches at the roofline. Taking an inch out at the tyres will lower it nicely, and gives a safety margin on the speedo for all the speed cameras in NSW.

Cheers

Marty
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

KC Saayman
Frequent User
Username: kc_saayman

Post Number: 73
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Monday, 14 January, 2008 - 11:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Marty

Regarding radial tyres, you may find the following interesting, from my website;

http://www.classicrollssa.co.za/Tyres.html

Regards

KC
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Bill Vatter
Frequent User
Username: bill_vatter

Post Number: 45
Registered: 9-2004
Posted on Wednesday, 13 February, 2008 - 11:06 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I don't come to this forum very often, but I would like to comment that the bypass filter really is worthless. Here's the logic:

With non-detergent oil that was common in the prewar and early postwar years, sludge forms by aglomeration of soot particles. It makes clumps that are relatively large, and settle out to make the sludge deposits. The bypass filter pore size is pretty good at straining the sludge clumps out of the oil.

With detergent oil, or more correctly dispersant oil, sludge deposits are prevented by the additive that picks up small molecular-size particles of sludge but will not pick up many of them. The result is the soot particulate in the oil is very fine, doesn't settle out very much to form deposits, and just goes right through the filter.

The full flow filter works in a very different way. Its purpose is not to clean the oil, but to prevent very large particles from getting to the bearings. Small particles can only harm the bearings during startup. As the engine starts the journals, which have been sitting on the bearings in metal-metal contact, lift up on an oil cushion. Thereafter, very small particles run through the bearing oil film touching nothing and harm nothing. The full flow filter does not stop them. If it were designed to stop the very fine particles, it would clog pretty quickly, and it also would have to be very large because pressure drop would be a problem.

The full flow filter earns its keep when something very large comes along. A grain of sand or other dirt, a bit of metal swarf, etc. Something like that would raise heck with the bearings. In fact it did with the first engines with bypass filters, which is the reason for the introduction of the full-flow filter.

I have heard of super fine filters, possibly rolls of toilet paper, would work, that are fine enough they would take out very fine particulate. There might be some small benefit for that in a bypass filter, but it would hopelessly restrict flow with a full flow filter.

Every spin-on car/truck filter made, that's all sizes all models no exceptions, is designed to have the flow go through it from outside to inside. The RR Vokes filter is designed for flow from inside to outside. Therein lies the problem.

Some years ago I made some full-flow filter adapters that reversed the direction to accept a modern spin-on filter. Several cars in the US are running those filters, including mine. They work quite well, are inexpensive to replace, and some very good quality replacement cartridges are available. Certainly better quality than the ones you can get from your friendly RR reseller for $60. Two of those adapter units went to Australia, and are probably kicking around somewhere. Give me an email address and I'll tell you who bought them. I no longer make them. Lacking numerical controls on my lathe and mill, it was a by-hand job, and it got to be too much like work. So I quit. I believe Flexolite is making a functionally equivalent adapter, but it looks different from mine. I aqm quite sure Norman can direct you to one of those if you want one.

If you use one of those adapters, you need to remember the bypass feature needs to be integral with the filter. The Fram PH-8A and equivalent have that feature.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

KC Saayman
Frequent User
Username: kc_saayman

Post Number: 78
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Wednesday, 13 February, 2008 - 02:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Thank you Bill. That has cleared up a lot of confusion for me, especially with regard to the direction of the flow of the oil through the filter.

Could you perhaps elaborate on the bypass feature of some modern filters? How do we know a filter has this feature? How do I know if the filters I order from the UK have this feature (my car has the original full-flow set-up)

Regards

KC
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Bill Vatter
Frequent User
Username: bill_vatter

Post Number: 46
Registered: 9-2004
Posted on Friday, 22 February, 2008 - 07:03 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I think most have this feature. I know Fram PH 8A does. That is what you need for the flexolite and the adapters I made.

Note Silver Clouds are a different setup. I think the flow direction MAT follow modern convention, and the filter head incorporates the bypass feature.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Martin Cutler
Experienced User
Username: martin_cutler

Post Number: 35
Registered: 7-2007
Posted on Tuesday, 26 February, 2008 - 08:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi guys, I just did an oil change on B319LH, and measured the canister to get the stainless one made. It is 119mm long, 98mm in diameter, with a 26mm hole in the bottom plate. I will let you all know how I get on with this. At this stage I have just sucked the 1/2 litre or so out of the filter housing, and put the felt filter back in again. Hard to tell if it actually caught anyting, but with the stainless one, at least when you clean it down in an ice cream container, you will be able to see any grit, etc.

Cheers

Marty
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Chas Vyse
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 86.154.21.72
Posted on Monday, 11 March, 2013 - 04:44 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Gentlemen -

when you converted to the Flexolite spin-off filter, to get access, did you do it by removing the windscreen washer bottle? Or did you remove the Dynamo? And if the latter, did you remove the engine under tray to get access to the bottom fixing bolt?

(Message approved by david_gore)
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Richard Treacy
Grand Master
Username: richard_treacy

Post Number: 2786
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Monday, 11 March, 2013 - 06:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I have never seen the issue here, Flexolite or otherwise. The full-flow RH2765 filter is easily sourced and at a very reasonable price. With the downdraught carburettors on Silver Dawns and some rare Bentleys the change is very simple. With twin SUs just guide the assembly through the windscreen washer aperture. No undertrays need to be removed. Although your books may recommend removing the generator (dynamo) that is not advisable.

Note that new Phantoms, Continental GTs, Mulsannes and the like have replaceable filter elements. Gone are the spin-on filters now frowned upon by many modern manufacturers.

RT.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Chas Vyse
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 86.154.21.72
Posted on Tuesday, 12 March, 2013 - 01:02 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Richard -

the 'issue', is to make changing the full flow filter to a spin off type, that much easier, when doing a filter change. Norman Geeson, I understand, has done this and advocates using a Fram PH8A cartridge.
I haven't yet removed the windscreen washer bottle - but it does look to me, you need quite long arms, to reach under and up to the oil filter...

(Message approved by david_gore)
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Paul Yorke
Grand Master
Username: paul_yorke

Post Number: 977
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Tuesday, 12 March, 2013 - 09:15 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

chas, it looks worse than it is !

Never had to take more than the washer bottle out when fitting a conversion kit .

it's only slightly more difficult than changing the filter . Change them often enough and it becomes easy .


I would recommend changing to the canisters for better filtration , ease of changing, price ,and availability. I'm not sure how many filters you need to change to get your money back - I think it was 5 or 6 on the earlier mkvi filters . Twice that on cloud type filters.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Geoff Wootton
Prolific User
Username: dounraey

Post Number: 119
Registered: 5-2012
Posted on Tuesday, 12 March, 2013 - 10:17 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Richard, Why are the spin-on filters now frowned upon?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Paul Yorke
Grand Master
Username: paul_yorke

Post Number: 978
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Tuesday, 12 March, 2013 - 10:30 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Geoff, Mainly Environmental reasons.

However, in the scheme of things the few R-R & B's aren't going to cause and extra bush fires or snow storms.

In fact you'll probably find that flying filters from the UK will have a much larger effect! :-(
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Brian Vogel
Prolific User
Username: guyslp

Post Number: 280
Registered: 6-2009
Posted on Tuesday, 12 March, 2013 - 10:50 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Paul,

Why would spin-ons be frowned upon for environmental reasons?

The metal cans can be (and, to some extent, are) recycled like other metal products. The filter media is not much more or less than contemporary cartridge-type filters (which, mark my words, will be a fad).

If ever there's been a technology that's proven itself it's the spin-on oil filter.

Brian
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Geoff Wootton
Prolific User
Username: dounraey

Post Number: 120
Registered: 5-2012
Posted on Tuesday, 12 March, 2013 - 11:54 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Brian

Somehow I don't think there's going to be a stampede of RR owners converting their cars back to replaceable filter elements.

Geoff.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Richard Treacy
Grand Master
Username: richard_treacy

Post Number: 2789
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Tuesday, 12 March, 2013 - 12:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Just bung in a Chev V8 and be done with it. Who cares what an antique looks like underneath so long as it's shiny on top.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Richard Treacy
Grand Master
Username: richard_treacy

Post Number: 2790
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Tuesday, 12 March, 2013 - 12:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Honestly, I change filters on my four Crewe cars and find the cartridge-canister filters no issue whatsoever. The Turbo R and Continental R have spin-on filters. Great, but they point upwards and oil pours out when you remove them. Those jobs are unnecessarily messy. The T-Series, being a ’72 with a canister filter, is the cleanest as the filter points more or less downwards and loses no oil on removing the filter. The R-Type points downwards and loses no oil until rested on the steering side lever to drain into a collection pan before putting a plastic bag over the canister and removing it past the washer compartment. Time-wise there is nothing in it. Filtration-wise the elements supplied these days are equal to the best spin-on filters. I happen to be using the possibly-inferior felt elements on the R-Type as I have a stash of a dozen or so (Vokes, Ryco R201V and Fram CH810Z), but replacements are of a modern design and cost just 30 quid (about$45). Go to Supercheap or Repco to buy a Ryco Z113 oil filter for a Turbo R and it will cost you $55.

Why do manufacturers now prefer cartridges ? That is because they are unhappy about the availability of spin-on filters which, intended for other motors, physically fit but sometimes have the wrong valves and other characteristics. For example, Bosch even lists a spin-on filter for Crewe V8s and Jag V12s, but it is half the size of the Crosland etc. Maybe it is fine, but why bother ?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Brian Vogel
Prolific User
Username: guyslp

Post Number: 281
Registered: 6-2009
Posted on Tuesday, 12 March, 2013 - 02:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Richard,

Put most simply: Because we can easily source them, they don't cost a bloody fortune, and they do the job.

Antiquity for antiquity's sake isn't a positive as far as oil filtration, oil, and other automotive fluids are concerned, at least in my book.

I fail to see why it's even the slightest bit controversial to want to use one of the most time-tested and successful automotive technologies ever to roll out of a designer's mind and the factory.

Brian
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Paul Yorke
Grand Master
Username: paul_yorke

Post Number: 979
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Tuesday, 12 March, 2013 - 06:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Why is a cartridge more environmentally friendly ?

Can you not see that if you have one item (a piece of paper with a bit of plastic at each end ) as a finished product ,that will and will obviously always use less energy than taking that finished product and then encasing it in metal that has been mined , smelted , possessed , rolled .stamped , machined , painted, and screen printed - and ends up 5 times heavier so needs more fuel to transport .

After use the element is practically free of oil and easily recycled , whereas the canister is almost impossible to drain and you are left with a heavy dirty item consisting of paper ,rubber ,metal ,and waste oil.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Bill Coburn
Moderator
Username: bill_coburn

Post Number: 1499
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Tuesday, 12 March, 2013 - 06:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Interesting Paul, I have never seen your 'green side before'! I agree entirely with your logic but am too lazy to follow your principle. The convenience of using a cartridge sells me on the system and you may not know that Ristes are now making a filter that reportedly exceeds the requirements offered by the 'genuine'! For OZ readers, these are available from TK Motors in Moss Vale.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Paul Yorke
Grand Master
Username: paul_yorke

Post Number: 980
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Tuesday, 12 March, 2013 - 07:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

LOL - I was just answering a question Bill. My 'green side' only goes as far as preferring organic wine to non . . . and that's just because you end up with less of a hangover! :-)

Even then I'd go for two bottles of non organic to one of the organic ones. (hmmmm maybe that's what stops the hangovers - quantity , not quality!)

I like canisters :-) I've changed quite a few of the earlier cars to canisters and encourage it. Personally I wouldn't bother on a Cloud or Shadow but then we have a workshop with parts washers etc so they are not a problem for me.

I can see the advantage in canisters to most owners and at £185 for a kit I would say why not? ... as long as you use the Bentley Filter (kit we use) and it means you change your oil more often! Anything that does that is a plus in my book.

For the purist I think the original can may be able to be made to cover the new setup on the flexolite?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Jeffrey McCarthy
Grand Master
Username: jefmac2003

Post Number: 386
Registered: 5-2007
Posted on Tuesday, 12 March, 2013 - 08:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I've followed this discussion with interest, having finally found someone vaguely local whom I'd even vaguely trust to change the oil for me as I'm getting too old for a day upside down on the concrete floor.

But I'm wondering what will happen on the day the apprentice gets given the job in the Friday rush and omits to put the various washers etc back on the catridge in the right order.

I'm tempted to do the spin-on modification on the Shadow just to avoid having to hang around the workshop like an unwelcome guest every time I get the oil changed.

Is preventing mechanic ignorance a valid reason to consider it? Is the spin-on really more foolproof (assuming you've got the right filter)?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Paul Yorke
Grand Master
Username: paul_yorke

Post Number: 983
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Tuesday, 12 March, 2013 - 08:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Jeffrey - I hadn't even considered that - That's the perfect reason!

You should see some of the cars that have come into me with missing parts, random parts and random fitting orders.

The best one ( or worst from the cars point of view ) was the call from somebody who's tappets would not quieten down after a filter change and 'had I ever come across this before'? .

Turns out that they had put the filter in upside down and the washers God knows where!!

We always keep the old parts, if anybody is anal enough to want to refit the original system they can.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Richard Treacy
Grand Master
Username: richard_treacy

Post Number: 2792
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Tuesday, 12 March, 2013 - 08:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Bill,

Those are the filter elements to which I refer. They will be available in a few weeks from a certain new R-R/B spares outfit in inner Sydney. Oil filtration has not been an issue since the late MkVIs were upgraded to the full-flow system. There are bigger fish to fry, but it is nice to know that a high-performance cartridge is available now and for the foreseeable future. It’s interesting that the last genuine-type MkVI/R-Type felt and mesh full-flow filter elements produced anywhere for the vehicles of that short production period between about 1951 and late 1954 were manufactured by Ryco in Australia around 1990, and they were the Ryco R201V also sold as the Fram CH910Z under dual-branding. For those who like the underbonnet to look a bit the way it did for decades, the ones supplied to Ristes are a good option. Note that they are supplied to, not commissioned by, Ristes.

I am sure that the spin-on conversions are fine nowadays after a few early disasters. However, most that I have seen are rather small for my liking, albeit most easily lifted out past the inlet ducting. The full-sized ones are messy to change as, like the originals in a twin-SU car, they come out via the windscreen washer bay unless you happen to remove the generator. Having changed the filter elements of my 1954 R-Type B174UM probably 70 times since I was a young teenager I can vouch that changing the filter element of that vehicle is one of the simplest and most straightforward maintenance chores around.

Paul, I take your point on disposing of a spin-on filter full of leaking oil, an item not allowed in the garbage bins where I live. Green ? well, my cars are green at least in colour.

Honestly, spin-on or element, it's no big deal. I see neither merit nor demerit in converting my Conti to an element filter or my R-Type (or T-Series) to a spin-on.

RT.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Fearne
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 86.165.61.97
Posted on Tuesday, 12 March, 2013 - 07:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Well if nothing else Gentlemen, I seem to have sparked some discussion!

(Message approved by david_gore)
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Mark Glanville
Experienced User
Username: mark_glanville

Post Number: 27
Registered: 5-2008
Posted on Sunday, 24 March, 2013 - 02:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Interesting and timely article on oil filters, as I have just completed changing my felt element on the KM series Bentley, which has the upgraded full flow filter. This was my second last felt filter stock and as I need to do another oil change on another car I was becoming concerned of my disappearing stock level of Crosland filters, which are no longer available. I started searching the internet and the local filter agents to see what replacements were on offer for the future. After days of searching I couldn’t find a suitable filter that crossed against Crosland or Ryco R201V as an equivalent. Paper versions, inside their own cartridge, were suggested, but I was reluctant as it may not do the same job, given that the specific sizes were different to the Crosland filter and being a purist I like the idea of a stainless steel wire cage and felt :-) I did however manage to find a manufacture that had a product that was very close to the clean Crosland filter I still have, with the following differences.
Filter overall is lighter than the Crosland original, but this could be due to the felt not being as dense as Crosland felt, the number of folds were different , which meant the OD and the ID were smaller and the cotton bias binding which joins the cage (held with large staples) is not of the same quality, this was a synthetic tape, pron to fraying. He advised these are not major changes,” just tell me what specs you want “. He has already provided a prototype changing the folds which changed the OD and ID to exact specs. My question, is there a specific standard of felt that was used for the old Crosland/Vokes felt filter and how thick/dense does the felt need to be to do a good filtering job? I'm as nterested more than anything else and it may well be that we find an additional supplier of a felt filters for Australia, with a bit of tweaking.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Addos shed
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 1.144.97.80
Posted on Sunday, 10 July, 2016 - 11:54 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Rolls Royce guys, I have from googling what I belive to be a filter that some of you were looking for... R201V (in BMC terms its a HYL113) cartridge type felt filter, I have 2 of them. Contact me if you are interested. .

(Message approved by david_gore)

Add Your Message Here
Post:
Bold text Italics Underline Create a hyperlink Insert a clipart image

Username: Posting Information:
This is a public posting area. Enter your username and password if you have an account. Otherwise, enter your full name as your username and leave the password blank. Your e-mail address is optional.
Please quote Chassis Numbers for all vehicles mentioned.
Password:
E-mail:
Options: Enable HTML code in message
Automatically activate URLs in message
Action: