| Author | Message | ||
     Jerome Brand Yet to post message Username: jb1975 Post Number: 1 Registered: 08-2021 |
Hi Everyone. I have B446EY which was my Fathers since 1988. I'm about to embark on some restoration and I'm considering respraying to the original colour scheme but I'm unsure what that is. I know it was Sky Blue in parts. Is there anywhere on my car where the paint colour code/ colour combination is marked? | ||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 3985 Registered: 04-2003 |
Jerome, If you do not get an answer from one of our members, I suggest you obtain a set of your vehicle's build records from Hunt House in the UK which should include details of the paint scheme used for your vehicle plus a lot of other information relating to the assembly of your vehicle. https://rrec.org.uk/contact-us  | ||
| Jerome Brand New User Username: jb1975 Post Number: 2 Registered: 08-2021 |
Thanks David | ||
| ChristopherCarnley Unregistered guest Posted From: 5.62.43.174 |
The original colour scheme was dual grey but the original proportionate mixes are unknown. The split was usually dark shade above a lighter one. The contemporary E series greys were Fish Silver metallic,and Pearl metallic, Tudor Grey was a bit later. "Pearl" could be dark shade. No one now what the colours looked like as every car has been repainted at some time, I have only seen two for definite and both from Australia, one ivory white and one black. The ivory had been touched up, not very well and what with oxidation etc, the true shade is not known. There is a good coffee table type book by James Taylor, called "Original Rolls-Royce and Bentley. 1946-65", and on pp 54-55 are pictures of a Silver Dawn in a grey split, but the colours are from 1988. (Message approved by david_gore) | ||
| Brian Vogel Grand Master Username: guyslp Post Number: 3173 Registered: 06-2009 |
David, Just for your own records, the RREC appears to have split its website up. The main page remains: https://rrec.org.uk/ on which there is a link to their archives site: https://rrec.org.uk/archives on which the specific page for purchasing build sheets is: https://archive.rrec.org.uk/construction-test-records I just determined this earlier this morning when responding to the same query elsewhere, and finding that the URL I've been using for years to send people to the page to purchase build sheets was MIA. Brian | ||
| Jerome Brand New User Username: jb1975 Post Number: 3 Registered: 08-2021 |
Thanks for your messages. My car was definitely Sky Blue rather than Grey or Silver. There are some small areas where it is visible. I also have a letter from the Original Owner to the 3rd Owner from 1962 where the Original Owner writes "I'm glad you have purchased my Blue Bentley". I have made contact with RREC so hopefully they have the details of my car. | ||
| Brian Vogel Grand Master Username: guyslp Post Number: 3174 Registered: 06-2009 |
There was a pre-war RR that used to show up at our local British Car Show that was a sky/robin's egg (I'd say more the latter, or maybe turquoise) color. I'm certain it had been repainted, but often wondered if that was in the original color or not. I've never been one that believes that the original color of a car that was bespoke to begin with is an essential thing to maintain if that color doesn't suit the current owner. I wouldn't paint your car (or any car, really) acid green but there are generally multiple options for any given era that may be more to the current owner's taste than the one chosen by the original owner. Brian | ||
| Jerome Brand New User Username: jb1975 Post Number: 4 Registered: 08-2021 |
Hi Brian, In this day and age, original colour probably doesn't matter too much but given that I haven't seen another Mk VI in Sky Blue and the current paint is tired, I'm considering a change back to original. The current colour combination is Black over Burgundy. More suited to this type of car but it is tired and needs work. Personally, I like the idea of originality as the car is 100% original other than the paint and I have the full history back to the 3rd owner with a couple of letters to the first owner, several letters between the 3rd owner and Crewe, full tool kit etc. A return to the original colour would just finish it off. | ||
| ChristopherCarnley Unregistered guest Posted From: 5.62.43.139 |
Jerome, According to Bernard King in his Complete Classics, No 9, B446EY,Engine No B223E was delivered to Mr B D Sweetapple, October 1949 in Australia. Finished dual grey. It is possible that the car was sold to a different customer by the Australian Retailer, or repainted it. My first 18 year old MKVI was sold to me painted in its original Mistletoe Green Metallic, quite "cheaply" as the colour was a bit too "bilious green", but I can't imagine a Sky Blue MKVI or any other Bentley in that shade. You have to be a member of the RREC in order to request the build and test records, which cost about £60 to send to Australia. (Message approved by david_gore) | ||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 3986 Registered: 04-2003 |
Christopher, This is not welcome news for Rolls-Royce Club members with their home country outside the UK. As a member of the RROCA, I was able to purchase the complete build records for DRH14434 at the same cost paid by RREC members in the 1990's. Not a very friendly gesture to the international RR/B community for the sake of extra income above the cost recovery already included in the purchase price for the extraction and provision of the build records by Hunt House. In my opinion, this practice leaves a very poor impression of the RREC not living up to the Rolls-Royce ethos to rip-off international members of the Rolls Royce and Bentley family. May those responsible for this dastardly deed suffer repeated failures to proceed as punishment for their greed and failure to continue the RR/B traditional international ethos. | ||
| Brian Vogel Grand Master Username: guyslp Post Number: 3175 Registered: 06-2009 |
Since the text on the RREC Build Sheet page clearly states: If you are not yet a member of the RREC but are interested in learning more about your Rolls-Royce or Bentley motor car, please email your request to businesssupport@rrec.org.uk and we will get back to you with further details on what we hold and pricing. I leave it as an exercise to the readership to decide whether non-members can buy build sheets. This has been a money-maker for many years, and I doubt they'd willingly cut off that source of funds. And they will lose out if they will not sell these to non-members, as they then become much more of a "dead asset." There was always a premium for non-members to buy these. Brian | ||
| Martin Webster New User Username: martin_webster Post Number: 11 Registered: 09-2018 |
Jerome, Rolls-Royce did use a colour called Astral Blue on later S Series Bentleys and Clouds which is similar to Sky Blue. It could be that your Bentley was resprayed with this or a shade close to it at some time. I don’t know if it is still available but here are the technical details for it. RR Code: 9500605 Astral Blue Supplier ICI Supplier Code: M151-2704 It could be worth investigating. Martin B88 HR | ||
| ChristopherCarnley Unregistered guest Posted From: 159.242.227.136 |
David, I agree with you, but it is a closed membership, and the BDC is much the same. As above and before, if the "member" will reimburse me, I will obtain the goods and send them to The Land Down Under. There was a really good review of the history and present of the Oz wine industry on TV last month, and I have to say even the "budget" white is vastly superior to that in the Yates Wine Lodge where they sold every wine in the world, at one time. (Message approved by david_gore) | ||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 3987 Registered: 04-2003 |
Jerome, Christopher Carnley has passed the following information for you on to me to post on his behalf: "This a Silver Shadow in R-R Astral Blue, which bears no resemblance to the old I.C.I B. Standard Astral Blue. Picture colour chip shown as bs4800."   | ||
| Martin Webster New User Username: martin_webster Post Number: 12 Registered: 09-2018 |
The plot thickens. Here are the website details allegedly of the same Shadow from a UK auctioneers website chassis no. SRH 1020 and in the description it states that it is Astral Blue ICI 151-2704. I have to say that this looks closer to what is normally accepted as Astral Blue than Chris’s image, but the same registration. Rolls-Royce Shadow - Brightwells Classic Carshttp://classiccars.brightwells.com › viewdetails Description, Rolls-Royce Shadow. Registration, LPE 383D. Year, 1965. Colour, Astral Blue ICI 151-2704. Engine size, 6,236 cc. Chassis No. SRH 1020. | ||
| Jerome Brand New User Username: jb1975 Post Number: 5 Registered: 08-2021 |
Hi All. Thanks for all of your input. I have contacted The Hunt House and they will sell the records of my car to me. The information in Bernard Kings Book is interesting. I know for a fact that the 1st owner was Mr Harman. I have documentation stating this so it seems the Dealer ordered the car for Mr Sweetapple but sold it to Mr Harman. The colour of dual Grey is interesting. Its not the best colour combination and I wonder if Mr Harman asked the dealer to paint it Blue before he purchased it. I definitely have a letter from Mr Harman to the 2nd owner where he refers to his Blue Bentley and there are several areas under the car and inside door frames where Sky Blue is visible. I'll wait for my info from The Hunt Club and see because I have letters from the 2nd owner to Crewe from 1961-1965 where they mention his cars "interesting history and we will update our records".  | ||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 3989 Registered: 04-2003 |
Martin, Chris Carnley has asked me to post the following for you: "Please include this one, I am having a bit of a dig at Martin, only a bit, as he is a good bloke. Caption is "Now, do you believe me"?! I have 3 versions of a print of "Magpie in the snow", by Claude Monet, and they are all different hues, and don't really resemble the one in the Musee d,Orsay. I will write later as I am struggling to build up a bitsa Derby Bentley engine for a member. Regards, Chris."   | ||
| Jeff Martin Frequent User Username: jeff_r_1 Post Number: 270 Registered: 07-2018 |
I won't apologize for what I'm about to say, but that two tone blue does not do a thing for that car. There's too much of a difference between the light and dark colour, making it look like two pieces rather then one car. | ||
| Jerome Brand New User Username: jb1975 Post Number: 6 Registered: 08-2021 |
I agree. My car has the light blue colour in the boot too which says to me it might have been light blue all over rather than 2 tone. | ||
| Bill Vatter Experienced User Username: bill_vatter Post Number: 141 Registered: 09-2004 |
This bit about RREC gouging non members is a classic example of a non-profit organization trying to balance the budget by focusing on increasing income rather than controlling cost. Too much paid labor rather than volunteer contributors. I my opinion, if you can't get something done with volunteer labor, it's questionable if it should be done. The idea of developing "profit centers" to support excessive overhead is fundamentally flawed for running a club, and if it isn't checked it will bring internal conflict and eventually destroy the organization. I am not a RREC member but I have heard about warring factions within it. The US Club where I am a member also suffers a bit from this, and 15 or so years ago, if almost destroyed the US RROC with a lawsuit that cost the club $1/2 million US. | ||
| Brian Vogel Grand Master Username: guyslp Post Number: 3177 Registered: 06-2009 |
I want to make clear that nothing I said either stated or implied that charging a non-member a higher price for something a member gets at a somewhat lower price is unreasonable. It's a standard practice the world over. If you have members paying annual dues, they are making a constant contribution to the running of a given organization and, in fact, could be said to be the primary support for the running of a given organization. Those who are not members contribute nothing to the running of an organization on a routine basis. Thus, it's entirely reasonable that they pay more for a service that they do not subsidize. Now, that doesn't mean that an unreasonable premium might be charged, AKA gouging, but I made no such assertion nor implication in this specific case. The price differential was modest when I last checked. Brian | ||
| Bill Vatter Experienced User Username: bill_vatter Post Number: 142 Registered: 09-2004 |
Brian, I am not spinning off of what you previously wrote, but thanks for your clarification. What troubles me is what I see as charging excessively, members and non members alike simply because they can. They have the records and they are the only game in town. Therefore, they see the records as a way to generate income rather than a way to help members with their cars. The root of the problem is greedy people in positions of authority who are interested more in wielding power than helping members with their cars and furthering the Club's foundational objectives. So why am I preaching when I can do nothing about it? We all need to be aware of these insiduous dangers and when we see trouble beginning, call for reason from our leaders. Remember, it's not about the money. Its about enjoying the cars and fellowship while we make them as good as we can. | ||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 3991 Registered: 04-2003 |
To take this matter further and please do not think I am complaining or issuing veiled threats; the RR/B community has a long tradition of members helping others voluntarily and without expecting recompense other than the "feel good" knowing you have been able to help a fellow enthusiast with information, solve a problem and/or encourage them to remain an active and valued member of the world-wide RR/B community. With regard to Brian's statement "Those who are not members contribute nothing to the running of an organization on a routine basis. Thus, it's entirely reasonable that they pay more for a service that they do not subsidize." At first sight, this appears to be a reasonable state of affairs but what about those of us who freely give of their time, knowledge and experience to members of the UK Club especially if we belong to a recognised RR/B Club in our home country? Surely it would be no great loss of revenue to the RREC to charge members of the other RR/B Clubs around the world the same price as RREC members on an "ex-gratia" basis and the imposition of an extra fee on non-members would be fair and reasonable. Personally, I would never charge anyone needing help for the costs, if any, involved in providing them with information and advice that would help keep a Rolls-Royce or Bentley vehicle in best possible condition. This is my responsibility in return for all the help, advice and information freely given to me by members of the Australian and international Rolls-Royce and Bentley community when I became responsible for the care and maintenance of DRH14434. | ||
| Martin Webster New User Username: martin_webster Post Number: 13 Registered: 09-2018 |
Ha, ha, Chris ! All taken squarely on the chin and I accept your point . Kind regards, Martin | ||
| Brian Vogel Grand Master Username: guyslp Post Number: 3178 Registered: 06-2009 |
David, There is a distinct difference, and I am certain you know that, between providing the kinds of help we here typically provide and maintaining an archive of paper materials that is extensive, and fragile, into the future. No one "needs" the build sheets for their car. Most classic car enthusiasts the world over don't even have the option to get them. I have no dog in this race other than making general observations. The RREC is now the custodian of a treasure trove of information that requires careful care if it is to be available into the foreseeable future. Even if they were to (or have) digitize(ed) all of this that's a herculean effort and expense (as is controlled storage of the originals). I don't know of any RR archives, including those held by the Rolls-Royce Foundation here in the USA, that don't charge something for making copies available to enthusiasts around the world. Even I could argue that the price should be the same for members and non-members alike, but that would almost surely result in a price increase for members of the club(s) holding the archives that are intentionally kept somewhat lower for precisely the reasons I mentioned earlier. If club dues partially sponsor the ongoing operation of the archives . . . Brian, who's given plenty of his own time and effort both when an active RROC-US club member and for many more years afterward | ||
| Alexander Lynch New User Username: lex_lynch Post Number: 16 Registered: 07-2020 |
The Paint Codes are listed on this site under the Technical Library at the bottom of the opening page | ||
| Jerome Brand New User Username: jb1975 Post Number: 7 Registered: 08-2021 |
Well the cost was £44, around $84AUD. I don’t think that was too bad. Remember, we already pay the RR/B tax anyway. | ||
| ChristopherCarnley Unregistered guest Posted From: 5.62.43.192 |
Jerome, What are the details regarding the paint finish, etc please? (Message approved by david_gore) | ||
| Jerome Brand New User Username: jb1975 Post Number: 8 Registered: 08-2021 |
Hi Christopher, The records from The Hunt House are the same as the details you provided which is obviously where Bernard King got is information. I'm still continuing the the hunt for more information. |
