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Martin Cutler
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 211.30.116.216
Posted on Wednesday, 01 September, 2004 - 17:59:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi guys,

I have read a few mentions of this spin on adapter, does anyone know where I could get one for my MK VI 4.5 litre engine? My supply of cartridge type felt filters has almost dried up, assume it takes a Ryco Z9 or similar?}
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Bill Vatter
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 68.158.14.91
Posted on Thursday, 02 September, 2004 - 10:21:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Marty,

email me vatterb@bellsouth.net

Where are you located, and with which club do you affiliate?

Bill

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Ashley James
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 62.255.0.5
Posted on Thursday, 02 September, 2004 - 22:44:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

www.flexolite.co.uk does them in the UK as well -all three types.

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John Dare
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 144.138.194.201
Posted on Thursday, 02 September, 2004 - 13:55:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hello Martin. I purchaed two adaptors from Bill V, these now being fitted to 52 and 53 year "R" types. The installation was very simple and yes.. the "Ryco" Z9 is the convenient filter. Although tempted to paint the filter black to make it "disappear", I left it in its pale gray, lest any leaks occur (NONE to date, nor expected) said leaks then perhaps, being more visibly apparent. Quicker and EASIER to change than the fiddly old insert?. A resounding YES. "Cleaner" i.e LESS mess occasioned by spillage/drips etc?. YES again.

(Message edited by david_gore on September 03, 2004)

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Jim Bettison
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 203.26.206.10
Posted on Sunday, 05 September, 2004 - 23:00:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Martin,
In the process of getting our MkVI (B20JO) up to date, we designed and made an adaptor for spin-on filters. If the R-type filter mounting, external oil lines, etc, are the same as for the MkVI (and I think they are), then the engineer who designed and made ours could help you. Two points; firstly, the new filter mounting is designed to fit directly to the existing provisions on the engine block, and doesn't require any modification of the oil lines or their attachment to the filter. Literally, a spanner job.
Secondly, we have incorporated two filters on our adaptor plate. One of them will fit a Z9 (or whatever you select) and deals with the main amount of the engine oil. The other deals with the small flow of oil that is directed to the valve gear, timing gears, etc. - and is unfiltered! It is often overlooked; but if you look at the gunk that's accumulated in the rocker shaft, or the surfaces of the alloy timing gear that have been fed with the same, then a filter becomes a sensible proposition. In this insance we chose to use the smallest filter we could find (originally fitted to a ride-on lawn mower, I seem to remember). Fitting it does entail cutting a couple of 5/16 inch pipes, and inserting a couple of fittings.
The genius who devised this, and who machined the adaptors from a piece of alloy about 3" cube, goes by the name of Danny Larsen, and is in Adelaide. He is to be found at dannylarsen@dodo.com.au and I suggest you talk to him direct. I'm available to give more details, too, if you want. Good luck.
Jim.

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Martin Cutler
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 211.30.115.108
Posted on Tuesday, 07 September, 2004 - 21:57:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Jim,

Mine is a MK VI with the 4.5 litre motor, so therefore full flow filtration. First time I have heard that the oil to the top end goes a different direction, and not through the filter. On most modern cars the filter is in line between the oil pickup in the sump and the oil pump. Assume this is not the case in the 4.5 litre Bentley. Mine has the 6 bolts which hold a clamping ring, not very elegant, but hasn't leaked yet.

Will contact Danny and see what he has to say.

Thanks

Marty

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Martin cutler
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 211.31.33.54
Posted on Thursday, 09 September, 2004 - 21:52:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Jim,

I emailed Danny tuesday, no reply by thursday. Do you have a phone number for him? Bill V has sent me lots of info on his conversion, looks very neat, $180US, around $300 roughly, so after 6 or so oil changes, it has paid for itself.

The Ryco filter would have to do a better job of filtering the oil than the orignial setup, and Bill confirms that the anti drain back feature in a Ryco filter will speed up oil pressure on first start up, something that worries me every time I start the engine. I wonder how this works, as the filter must stay full of oil, but maybe it is the pipe from the filter to the pump that empties itself. If you have a phone number for Danny, I will try him asap before I commit to Bill in the US.

Thanks guys

Marty

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Richard Treacy
Grand Master
Username: richard_treacy

Post Number: 348
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Saturday, 11 September, 2004 - 20:32:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Martin,

On filter element cost alone you will never recover your expenditure on a spin-off conversion. Are you using a Ryco R201V/Fram CH810Z filter element now ? They are available from most general automotive spares outlets in Austeralia, and are not expensive. Most stores do not stock them but will have them in one day on request. I have a friendy outlet in Bondi Junction which sometimes has them in stock. The elements are made especially for full flow MkVI & R-Type cars, and are identical to the originals from Vokes (or whomever supplies Crewe today, probably Fram....). I have not bought one from Crewe since around 1970 as the price difference is astonishing. I assume that you remove the filter assembly through the windscreen washer bottle holder.

The expenditure on a conversion will certainly make replacement a bit easier and presumably will be more effective in filtration, but I can't get excited about either really. Also, given that the original filter is inverted, the one way valve can do nothing. There are slight reservations about paper element spin-off filters compared to the original reinforced felt type, but this is only trivial given that practically every car on the road uses a paper oil filter.

RT.
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Martin Cutler
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 211.31.33.54
Posted on Saturday, 11 September, 2004 - 20:55:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I have some filters made by crosslands now. Apparently Ryco stopped making the steel and felt filter for the Bentley a couple of years ago, and I bought up the last remaining ones from Repco. They are now only available from John Vawser as far as I know, and it seems he is getting them from England? Anyways, he charges in excess of $50 for them, so swapping to a Z9 which costs about $5 trade makes a significant cost saving if you intend to keep the car and change the oil at least twice a year. I am not really sure the original setup filters the oil all that well, a paper element must be better than felt?

As you say, the anti drain valve will do little for the filter, but maybe will hold oil in the pipe? Why does the pressure needle move so slowly when first starting up? Maybe I should start a new thread and ask for responses on how quickly the oil pressure guage comes up on Mk VI and R types. I used to drive a twenty horse quite frequently, and if you stopped too quickly for a red light, all the oil would surge to the front of the sump, and the oil pressure gauge would drop to zero, and take ages to come back up again. Didn't seem to harm the engine, but sure made me worry!

How long does your gauge take to move Richard?

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Richard Treacy
Grand Master
Username: richard_treacy

Post Number: 349
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Monday, 13 September, 2004 - 04:38:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Martin,

R-Type.

I have only ever seen your type of filter in the literature. I would definitely change to a spin-off cartridge system as on yours it looks a pain to change the element. By comparison, the later ones are dead simple and quick to change. I doubt whether Bill Vatter's adaptor would fit your filter base plate as it is designed for the later original single centre-bolt element type adaptor. You may need to buy an original later-series top adaptor to use that one, but more logically you may buy a Flexolite setup in that case.

I am astonished at the price you pay for elements. Crewe elements are available in the UK for 18, around A$45, but then there are shipping costs. I bought my last Ryco ones two years ago in Canberra at a price of less than A$18, and I considered that expensive. It is a shame if Ryco and Fram have really discontinued the line. With a stash of 12 or so, you may understand my lack of interest in buying an adaptor at present.

One issue not mentioned is that, for both spin-off filters and element replacements, it is a good idea to pre-fill them before fitting to minimise oil pressure lag on first starting after a change. Being an inverted arrangement, this is ideal on an R-Type.

Concerning paper vs felt, I would suggest it is not an issue. Surely a modern oil filter is far more effective than one designed just after World War II. The original full-flow filter, changed regularly, was a brilliant improvement over the earlier by-pass filters, but a modern filter has to be still better, albeit incrementally.

On oil pressure, when my R-Type motor has not run for some time (months unfortunately), the gauge usually stays very low for 3 seconds then springs instantly to 30 psi on fast idle. When hot, it settles at 27 psi when driving. The gauge goes instantly to 20 psi on idle when started warm, but can fall to as low as 12 psi on hot idle. This behaviour didn't change noticeably when I changed from GTX3 to full synthetic Mobil 1 5W50, although the hot idle oil pressure may be 1 psi higher than before. However, I am confident that the synthetic oil mainly provides great unseen improvements in early flow and lubrication overall.
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Martin Cutler
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 211.31.33.54
Posted on Monday, 13 September, 2004 - 21:46:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Richard,

Bill asked me which type I had, centre bolt or 6 bolts going into a ring, so that his plate works on my car. From the info he has emailed me, I think the original clamping ring holds the adapter in place. I am sure this will be obvious when it goes together. The 6 bolts are a pain to get to, so not having to disturb them again has definite advantages.

I am running thicker oil, so 5-6 seconds for the needle to move, as you can imagine, a very long 6 seconds!

Jim, any word on Danny's phone number, I am still interested in this seperate supply to the head issue.

(Message approved by david_gore)
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Ashley James
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 62.255.0.5
Posted on Sunday, 19 September, 2004 - 03:16:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Some Big bore MKVIs have the oil pressure gauge attached to the oil gallery adjacent to No. 7 main bearing. Most are attached to the main feed into the engine so the oil pressure indicates a little higher and comes up faster.

If your is on No 7 it will be slow. My Big Bore is the same.

I've got a 4.25L with a centre feed and I am about the fit a Flexolite (I'm in the UK)spin off conversion to a six bolt filter and a pressure gauge feed to the back of the engine so I'll let you know how much difference it makes.

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Ashley James
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 62.255.0.5
Posted on Friday, 24 September, 2004 - 03:08:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I have just fitted the Flexolite adaptor and I must say it is beautifully made, easy to fit and makes changing filters a pleasant instead of utterly miserable job. I am off on the section weekend tomorrow and will report back if the oil pressure comes up more quickly. It made a huge difference on the 4.25L.

I used 5-40 fully synthetic oil as recommended by R-R too. It has been in my other car for several years now.

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Ashley James
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 80.229.46.15
Posted on Friday, 24 September, 2004 - 18:57:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I left the car for 24 hours and then started the engine - Oil pressure was virtually instantaneous and much quicker than with the original filter.

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Martin Cutler
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 211.31.33.164
Posted on Friday, 01 October, 2004 - 18:16:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Ashley,

Glad to hear the improvement. I have given Bill the go ahead for the adapter, time frame is around 1 month. Took the car out last weekend, and it will be out on sunday as well, looking forward to getting hold of the adapter. Even ordered some new radial tyres, will be a new car!

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Martin Cutler
Frequent User
Username: martin

Post Number: 19
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Monday, 20 December, 2004 - 19:14:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi guys,

Took delivery of Bill Vatter's excellent adapter last week, and fitted it tonight. Dead easy to fit. Oil pressure definitely comes up quicker, instead of 6 seconds from dead cold, it took 1 second, and almost instantaneous when restarting from hot. Just took it for a cruise to check for oil leaks, all fine. I fitted a Ryco Z9, $6.12 trade from Repco. After 6 oil and filter changes it will have paid for itself.

Will take it for a run up to Bilpin tomorrow, and enjoy the Bells Line of Roads.

Thanks again Bill for supplying a great product.

Marty

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