| Author | Message | ||
     Theo Whitmont Experienced User Username: old_mate Post Number: 83 Registered: 04-2020 |
Gents, I have some limited knowledge of caravans where every kg towed counts. Batteries in particular come under significant scrutiny owing to their significant impact on overall weight. Currently there are plenty of lithium car batteries that seem to be an albeit expensive solution to the weight problem. Here’s an example of an Australian product that claims a good cold cranking rate https://itechworld.com.au/products/1420ca-12-volt-lithium-battery-itech1420-cranking. Expensive as poison and less than a third the weight of the standard equivalent battery. Does anyone feel there is a benefit of a saving 20kgs ? Price gap aside, does anyone have a thought on such batteries in a small horsepower vehicle? Hmmm….. | ||
| Jeff Martin Frequent User Username: jeff_r_1 Post Number: 339 Registered: 07-2018 |
All my batteries seem to eventually leak acid, if this battery won't do that, then I think it's worth the 1000.00 bucks. Doesn't seem to need any maintenance either, so that means no more having to keep the trickle charger on it. One doesn't give themselves a hernia installing it. I can't comment on the weight savings, but that is huge. | ||
| Brian Vogel Grand Master Username: guyslp Post Number: 3285 Registered: 06-2009 |
Interesting. I think I've had one regular battery in my entire motoring life actually leak (and I've been driving since the 1970s). I don't use trickle chargers often, but always disconnect any battery on any vehicle that will remain unused for any period of time. That included my RRs when they were not to be driven (e.g., during the winter's nap). I always had enough power in the battery for it to start the car when I connected it again when driving season arrived. I think the only time I have used a charger is on my "kinda daily driver" vehicles when one of them remained undriven for just a bit too long and all the electronic bits that run 24/7 whether the vehicle is driven or not drew the battery down below what was needed for the starter. In any vintage vehicle, a difference of 20kg/44lbs is a drop in the proverbial bucket given all of the other built-in inefficiencies (by today's standards) and the amount they get driven. Brian | ||
| Jeff Martin Frequent User Username: jeff_r_1 Post Number: 340 Registered: 07-2018 |
Maybe they just make crumby batteries in Canada. | ||
| Mark Herbstreit Frequent User Username: mark_herbstreit Post Number: 232 Registered: 05-2005 |
Last year I replaced a ZZ70. I had to double check the date in the service records. Yes is was August 03. (old enough to vote!). I have always used the Brian method of disconnecting the earth lead when not in use. This battery was never trickle charged. My other ZZ70 is currently at 13 years and counting using the same method.  | ||
| Brian Vogel Grand Master Username: guyslp Post Number: 3286 Registered: 06-2009 |
Mark, You and I are living in the same world. The battery that's in SRH33576 at the moment has a sticker indicating its service life began in June 2011. And I know that there have been several incidents where the negative earth lead was not disconnected when it should have been, so I had to charge the thing back up from dead, dead, dead. But with the general practice having been "disconnect when not in use in virtually all cases" it just keeps going, and going, and going. I routinely get service lives from automotive batteries in my daily or very nearly daily drivers that are years longer than their warranties and I don't buy ultra-high-end battery brands. [My own luck with Walmart's own EverMaxx brand has been great, across several vehicles of very different types, including one RR.] Brian | ||
| Mark Aldridge Frequent User Username: mark_aldridge Post Number: 773 Registered: 10-2008 |
I replace the batteries in my cars at 6 years regardless. I use battery conditioning chargers on cars not in regular use but have wired them so that with the battery isolatator off, the clock and radio memories are still connected. I use the old batteries to power the inverter in my shed with no mains electricity. | ||
| Theo Whitmont Experienced User Username: old_mate Post Number: 84 Registered: 04-2020 |
Having had a battery violently explode in my 20/25 following some very stupid handling by yours truly 30 years ago, I am very partial to the concept of a battery that doesn't emit hydrogen and oxygen gas when being charged. Just another thought..... | ||
| Dorien Berteletti New User Username: dorien Post Number: 32 Registered: 01-2013 |
For some 10 years or more? the only batteries I find are sealed. No distilled water to add and no fumes, no explosions and no leaking. I've had an explosion ( my fault) some 25 + years ago...BIG bang quite impressive!! | ||
| Brian Vogel Grand Master Username: guyslp Post Number: 3287 Registered: 06-2009 |
I haven't seen an unsealed battery in years, either, at least not any automotive ones. But even in the sealed ones, there are tiny vent holes and the same underlying technology is in use. One follows the same safety protocols, always. One of the reasons I will not allow anyone else to jump start my cars, nor allow someone to whom I'm giving a jump to do the cable connections themselves is I've seen "the wrong order" used far more frequently than the correct, safe one, and I never want to be anywhere near to a battery explosion. Positive of the good battery direct to positive bad. Negative good to somewhere removed from the battery itself that is part of earth/ground for the car with the bad battery. That latter location is never hard to find. They come off in the exact reverse. And given the spark that often gets thrown when that last connection is established, I know why it's always supposed to happen in a location remote from the battery itself. Brian | ||
| Dorien Berteletti New User Username: dorien Post Number: 33 Registered: 01-2013 |
Brian, "given the spark that often gets thrown" I find this confusing. The only time you would get a spark, is if one side is under load, such as lights on or other battery draw. Since usually both cars/batteries are in off mode why the spark? Next in this saga, avoid boosts from the modern small boosters popular with towing services and other uninformed users. They will fry some or all of your electrics on some cars. Had this on my Mulsanne S and in getting boosted the passenger power seat ECU was toasted. This happened just before I bought the car so I ended up with a new system. I have heard of this problem from other RR owners so use booster cables or change the battery if stuck. | ||
| Alan Dibley Frequent User Username: alsdibley Post Number: 351 Registered: 10-2009 |
Lithium batteries need a charger that is uniquely designed to charge lithium batteries. The charging system on cars designed for lead/acid batteries is unsuitable/dangerous. The danger lies in the fact that a lithium battery which is overcharged may suddenly turn into a dead short, thus releasing all the chemical energy in a fraction of a second - so a VERY hot battery. The battery mentioned above has a special charger BUILT-IN. Don't try to use a "normal" 12volt Li battery without this feature. Sorry if I'm overdoing the caution, but it might save a fire. Alan D. | ||
| Theo Whitmont Experienced User Username: old_mate Post Number: 87 Registered: 04-2020 |
That's new news Alan so thanks. I presume you are advising us 'to find the right one' as opposed to saying Lithium batteries are not suitable at all in pre war cars. Am I correct? | ||
| Alan Dibley Frequent User Username: alsdibley Post Number: 352 Registered: 10-2009 |
Theo, I don't have a definitive answer to that because I don't know what "smoke and mirrors" are included in lithium batteries to make them compatible with 12v car systems. If it were my car I would buy a modern lead-acid battery with a bit more capacity (Amp-hours) than the original spec - the battery-box is big enough because battery size has shrunk in the last ?? years. I have done that on My Bentley and not regretted it. Alan D. PS. You won't fry the electronics. There isn't any. | ||
| Mark Aldridge Frequent User Username: mark_aldridge Post Number: 784 Registered: 10-2008 |
Theo , a friend of mine has recently sufferred a major house fire caused by a fault in an OM drill battery.I Will not have a large Lithium battery on the premises and furthe my driil batteries are now charged outside !! I was with a client this morning who had a tractor battery (lead acid ) explode years ago and his view echoes mine. The lead acid exploded, but did not fire, a lithium would have done. Also he noted two tractor fires caused after shutdown due to altrnator failures.How are lithium hybrids protected from this ? Mark | ||
| Theo Whitmont Experienced User Username: old_mate Post Number: 88 Registered: 04-2020 |
All good cautionary tales gents. I have also heard tales of woe when recharging lithium drill batteries with an aftermarket charger here in Sydney.. At this point I am sufficiently warned off. For interesting reading here is an article with plenty of detail around why these batteries fail and how to safely charge them. All very depressing. I read with interest that batteries on electric scooters and the like have an increased failure rate due in part to vibration stress from being bounced around. Hmmm, sounds uncomfortably comparable to the tin battery box under my 20/25. Anyway, all good learning.https://renew.org.au/renew-magazine/sustainable-tech/lithium-battery-fires-and-safety/ | ||
| Alan Dibley Frequent User Username: alsdibley Post Number: 353 Registered: 10-2009 |
I assumed when I pontificated a few entries ago that someone who knew all the technological stuff would post - but no??? Though I suspect that the safety record of lead/acid v. the stories about Li battery explosions tells it all. Alan D. | ||
| LintonSchier Unregistered guest Posted From: 115.70.116.181 |
Modern Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries are excellent and safe. Most models are equipped with inbuilt BMS (battery management systems) that will control all aspects of the charging requirements of the battery. This is a huge advantage when used with early models that are equipped with an older 3 brush dynamo. The battery cannot be overcharged as is the case with the lead Acid battery (no Hydrogen!!!) (Message approved by david_gore) |
