| Author | Message | |||
     Jason Watson Experienced User Username: crikeydawn Post Number: 186 Registered: 07-2023 |
The marketing of Roles Royce as the worlds best car is correct on one hand, and debatable on another. As to time marches on and technology improves some things, debatable on others. I spied a comment elsewhere regarding radial tyres not being correct for an entrant at the latest RREC annual rally. The response was they attract no point lost due to safety. Cross ply tyres are an out dated dangerous thing of the past, and given the cost of modern pie top radial replicas, a standard radial was acceptable. Fair enough. This however got me thinking, my Bentley S is in pieces. I have never driven an S or Cloud so have no indication of the brakes. Last time I drove a 4 drummed brake car I was 17, and at the bottom of a local mountain with me alone in the car, I was wishing it had more of something than the retro fitted seat belts given it too was an auto. I have come across a 4 wheel S/Cloud series disc brake conversion. The price is fair, product is quality, and has proven itself over numerous conversions for wedding cars in the US. It opens the can whether that is a reasonable stray from originality in the name of safety. I plan to use this car for limited commercial applications, so would have have 3 to 5 occupants. I live on a mountain where all roads off are steep, some 13% gradient. On the plateau roads are often narrow and we have no street lights. I'd like to do some touring at some point, and I suspect the smallest accident may see it very well written off. Then lastly, in concourse condition its worth less than a LandCruise Prado, not a LandCruiser, and may not hold its value as well either. So does modernising safety land it on the dog house, or still maintain originality. I know its personal, but would like to hear opinions. | |||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 4274 Registered: 04-2003 |
The choice you face is simple in my opinion: 1. Adopt a purist approach and maintain the vehicle exclusively using all RRMC parts if available and after-market items only if needed. Expensive? yes Benefit? you can walk proud at any RR/B event knowing your use of non-RRMC items is unlikely to raise adverse comments. 2. Adopt a practical and less expensive approach and use a mix of genuine available RRMC parts and quality after-market equivalents subject to availability. You may find you have to source individual custom-made parts for "no longer available commercially " items. 3. Adopt an "what I can afford" approach using the lowest-priced commercially available after-market and RRMC parts. Your car is your car and owners "doing their own thing" with their RR & Bentley has always been part of ownership. The purists will argue against this however many vehicles remain on the road and are being enjoyed by practical custodians who maintain the car as best as possible within the limits of their financial resources. "Always has been and always will be part of the Rolls-Royce /Bentley tradition" in my opinion.  | |||
| Jeff Martin Frequent User Username: jeff_r_1 Post Number: 663 Registered: 07-2018 |
Here's an interesting thing on the brakes Jason, but even though the car stops well, you can still have brake fade. (as you know) I would like to see how the disc brakes are fitted to the S/Cloud series cars, it would certainly not be a bolt on. There's lots in the video which you already know, but it's interesting at the end when Tyrrell takes it out to test the brakes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbb0_C8nN3Q | |||
| Mark Aldridge Frequent User Username: mark_aldridge Post Number: 876 Registered: 10-2008 |
I have owned my S1 for 20 years, and my opinion is: radial tyres are a must, high level brake light and halogen headlights desirable. The brakes, if well maintained are very good at driving speeds but very poor when manoeuvring at slow speed.( parallel parking is a nightmare!).In my opinion Jason, you own the car, you modify or update it to your requirements and just ignore the purists !My car has electronic ignition, alternator, itg airfilter, jaguar heater valves, electric screen wash , electric cooling fan and updated wiring to support. | |||
| Jason Watson Experienced User Username: crikeydawn Post Number: 187 Registered: 07-2023 |
Thank you guys, You know the very first RR-B owner I met had this well used Mk VI manual. He talked about heating issues and things he had done like open the vent angles on the grill. Had it painted in a colour he liked, yeh not a RR-B colour. I was a bit horrified to see he had the interior done in vinyl, and he said has copped his fair share for that. But when a smile came up on his face, as he talked about all these epic long road trips he had done with his young family all those year ago, nothing mattered. Didn't matter his car was out of sync or on the tired side, so was he, what mattered was he had spent his time well, and in his own way. Think I forget that. The brake conversion is largely a bolt on affair. It requires a little machining on the rear hubs, and a bit of welding to hold the booster and slave cylinder, but has been designed by a RR/car nut who is an engineer as well. He does quite a few engine and gbox conversions into Cloud/S series, so I presume the upgraded brakes are to deal with more power. I personally think by the time the engine and gbox have been substituted, the cars has lost its soul. And if I am to consider a cars worth, then it's hard to see "my type" of value in such a modified car. Still beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Certainly the guy I bought the car off was on a concourse path, and I was open to that. However after discovering the price of parts, and the cars top value it's hard to stay loyal to that calling. I can see the personal satisfaction however in possessing an original, or close to car. That however is perhaps on par with simply owning one that is reliable and self maintained. Certainly my trusted go to sound board, the father in law feels the brakes would be fine. And to be honest they are quite big for what they are. The linings and drums are in fine condition so only the wheel cylinders need doing. There seems to be enough owners around who are happy with the standard brakes, and enough echo the need to be set up correctly. Think that will do. In reflection, think I'm trying to talk myself from a want into a need. Mark, have a watch of Jeff's link. Tyrrell talks about the servo and its purpose. Wondering if that poor slow speed brake performance is because its rear brakes only. No sure if that can be twigged to improve, especially in reverse, but it's an interesting feature that would be lost with the fitting of disc brakes. | |||
| Jeff Martin Frequent User Username: jeff_r_1 Post Number: 664 Registered: 07-2018 |
Mark, that is strange that your brakes don't work well when maneuvering at slow speeds, that can't be correct. I don't want to talk down to you as an owner an an S1 for 20 years, but... The rear brakes have to be adjusted right up for the servo to work properly. Is there some contamination on the servo friction surface that's causing it to glaze over, and not engage properly at slow speeds ? I have a MK VI (similar system) and my Dad was driving in a parking lot when another driver pulled out in front of him requiring a panic stop. The car stopped well and suddenly from about 20 to 30 kmph. | |||
| Jason Watson Experienced User Username: crikeydawn Post Number: 188 Registered: 07-2023 |
That is a fair point Jeff, RR/B did put a lot on the poor chauffeur to master, but given the standard steel range where being marketed to the owner driver, I doubt RR would be happy with poor low speed braking. It did cross my mind perhaps RR only viewed their cars requiring low speeds in spacious stately surroundings, not the congested world of today. That would be very RR. Think after I have slept on it I'm more inclined to stick with the original. As a 17yo I can't recall my speed down the mountain, but I doubt very much it was on the conservative side, or used the gears. Perhaps if I can get all the adaptions working in this car, and the brakes do end up hot, I can stop for a cuppa and smell the flowers. haha | |||
| Mark Aldridge Frequent User Username: mark_aldridge Post Number: 877 Registered: 10-2008 |
Jeff, at 10mph the brakes are excellent and on my Taply meter equal those of my 2009 Landrover defender. The problem is at slower than walking pace ie reversing into a tight parking space on a hill. Any advice would be welcome as this manoeuvre requires nerves of steel ! Mark | |||
| Jeff Martin Frequent User Username: jeff_r_1 Post Number: 665 Registered: 07-2018 |
Ahh yes... The flaw in the system.  One almost has to rely on a very healthy park brake, it's just the way the servo works from forward to reverse and from reverse and forward. (as you know) The bloody thing has to go in the other direction for the brakes to work, and in order for that to happen, the car has to almost move 2 lengths of itself. I've never had to parallel park on a hill, up or down, but I guess one would have to remember to pull ahead 2 car lengths so the servo can go from going forward and then reverse to activate the brakes in order to comfortably pull into the spot. That's all I can think off. I do remember coming to a stop of a very steep hill, and although the brakes held, I should have used the park brake and the car rolled back the typical 15 feet before the thing stopped _ there was only the rear brakes stopping the car. It did almost stop, but I was really on that pedal. | |||
| Jason Watson Experienced User Username: crikeydawn Post Number: 189 Registered: 07-2023 |
"bloody thing" got a laugh out of that. So is it fair to say whether you reverse park, or nose in, the first two car lengths after leaving that spot the car is somewhat brakeless? | |||
| Jeff Martin Frequent User Username: jeff_r_1 Post Number: 666 Registered: 07-2018 |
It's about a car length, not 2 car lengths. So if you're parallel parking, instead of pulling up to the car beside you, pull up beside the car in front of that car. Doing this will enable the servo to kick in so you don't have any surprises when you pull in. By giving ones self 2 car lengths when parallel parking, you are ensured the cars brakes will come on when actually backing into the spot. The system is very flawed in this way, the Clouds and the S series' should have done away with the servo by this time, or at least designed it different where this problem doesn't occur. | |||
| Christian S. Hansen Prolific User Username: enquiring_mind Post Number: 1061 Registered: 04-2015 |
Servo needs service or proper adjustment. It is absurd to assume that the system was designed with this alleged fault. Servo on my cars engage when car moves only a minimum amount...one foot, forward or reverse. | |||
| Jeff Martin Frequent User Username: jeff_r_1 Post Number: 667 Registered: 07-2018 |
Christian Is that braking (forward or reverse) from a standing car ? What happens when you drive forward, then brake, keep your foot on the brake, shift into reverse, and now drive backwards _ is there any servo lag before you have strong brakes ? I know the system quite well, and after thinking about it some more, I think you're correct. | |||
| Jason Watson Experienced User Username: crikeydawn Post Number: 190 Registered: 07-2023 |
In Tyrrell's video, his serviced servo looks as if should engage immediately with the gbox going forward to reverse and vice versa. Perhaps rolling backwards in a forward gear, (if that is possible), or in neutral may confuse the servo a bit. I know looking at all the linkages there are a lot, and many with little brass bushes. Easy enough to replace, but also easy enough to wear. Would think the whole set up needs to have minimum play to work as intended. Tyrrell also talks about glazing. I have filed my servo a new surface to contact with the new lining when it arrives. Sounds like some spirited driving to keep surfaces where they need to be is also required. Of course with this disc brakes conversion, all that is gone, servo included. | |||
| Mark Aldridge Frequent User Username: mark_aldridge Post Number: 878 Registered: 10-2008 |
I set my brakes up in accordance with the manual and have about 12 inches of lag before the servo activates. This is slightly greater if changing from braking in reverse to braking going forward , as in a 3point turn or parallel parking. Enough to be nerve wracking if on a hill and space is tight ( outside Buxton Opera House). Any suggestions ? Mark | |||
| David Hughes Experienced User Username: wedcar Post Number: 171 Registered: 07-2004 |
Norman Geeson instructions are:- Jack up rear of car, take all safety precautions. Adjust rear brake shoes until they lock. Back off two clicks of adjuster on each wheel. Ensure wheels turn without brakes rubbing, Lock up left hand rear wheel again with adjuster.Back off locking nut on brake servo. Have assistant turn right hand rear wheel forward direction, this mimics how the wheel would be driven by gearbox. Adjust inner nut on servo whilst turning RHR wheel. When the servo BEGINS to engage - STOP Back off inner nut again to recheck setting. Adjust inner nut again until servo begins to engage - stop. Back off 2 Flats of the inner nut, this equates to 1/3 turn of nut. Whilst holding inner nut in this position - tighten locknut. Now you can stop turning the RHR wheel. Return to LHR wheel and back off adjuster two clicks. This is the correct setting and should minimise any "Servo-Lag". Ronny Shaver directions almost the same. Regards David | |||
| Jason Watson Experienced User Username: crikeydawn Post Number: 191 Registered: 07-2023 |
Might also be worth checking the brake shoes are square to the drum, and for and aft resting position is set to a minimum. see 4.30 http://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TLYJaX1q90 | |||
| Christian S. Hansen Prolific User Username: enquiring_mind Post Number: 1062 Registered: 04-2015 |
Mark... Keep in mind that Rolls-Royce was not originally intended to be either driven or serviced by mere mortals. Few devices had automatic capabilities and the operation of the brakes is an example. I refer to the "hand brake" which is not to be confused with either an "emergency only" or "parking" brake. In the circumstances noted of operating the vehicle in close quarters or on a hill when either parking or simply awaiting a directional signal to turn green, the use of the hand brake becomes essential to provide stopping power during that short but critical and rather unnerving time period during which the servo is engaging the brakes. To wit...when approaching a stop on a hill, it is necessary to understand the operation of the braking system and your braking options which specifically include the hand brake. As you come to a stop (and in the case of another vehicle stopping behind you) your foot is on the brake pedal and the servo is engaged. At this moment it is critical to reach down and set the hand brake BEFORE removing your foot from the brake pedal otherwise the vehicle will begin to roll backwards and that split second it takes to reengage the servo will be extremely unnerving to say the least. With hand brake holding the vehicle you are able to move our foot from the brake pedal to the accelerator pedal and make a smooth get away when the signal turns green while feathering off the hand brake and proceeding on your way without the vehicle rolling backwards. Try it and you will notice how smooth the system works. You just have to get out of the "automatic" mindset and use all of the devices provided to you as driver. | |||
| David Hughes Experienced User Username: wedcar Post Number: 172 Registered: 07-2004 |
Christian Well said Regards David | |||
| Jeff Martin Frequent User Username: jeff_r_1 Post Number: 668 Registered: 07-2018 |
When using the hand brake and removing your foot from the peddle, this will enable the servo to return to centre. This will allow it to re-engage faster when backing down a hill. | |||
| Jason Watson Experienced User Username: crikeydawn Post Number: 193 Registered: 07-2023 |
Thank you for the impute lads, I've been learning but you aren't selling it well, "bloody thing" haha. I don't have traffic lights on hills, though I do get exhausted trucks stopped on hills. I have more off camber sloping dirt car parks, usually small, lined with hedges with hidden wire, or rocks, and no lighting. So that will be fun with the Prince of Darkness along for the ride with a wonky servo. On another note, I came across a member from a 2015 thread on dynamos, alternators, and Dynalites. I've lost the thread and can't recall his name, but he has a shop in the UK that does upgrades for stater motors, alternators, and heaters. My first of many Q's is who's 4.25 - 4.9lt motor turns over like a dull puttering whirring generator that inspires little confidence for some time before firing up, or does it crank like a modern car, strong and fast. On top of the dark sloping car park the last thing I need is a "hope it starts" thought in my head in the cold. He also supplies a standard Lucas alternator. Cheap and does the job in his view. Others of course supply Dynalites to look original but come at a price. That price also has a life time warranty nowadays though. As much as it pains me I think the Dynalite is my path for lighting, electronic heating, and air conditioning. I read others suggest the dynamo and a 700cc battery is all you need. However a guy in NZ who didn't have air and did weddings, ran some fans on hot days to move air but not the brides hair. It all became embarrassingly pear like when the ol slow cranking motor failed to even do that because the dynamo couldn't match the draw of the fans in transit. Maybe something was not right, don't know. I guess no one wants to do these upgrades, me included, but I have had a Land Rover that randomly failed to start. LR could not fix it and I'm done with cars that don't start when it suits them. The good wife has already laid down the law she will burn the Bentley on the spot if it fails to proceed. So I'd like to hear your thoughts on stater motors, dynamos, alternators. Oh one last thing, this heater. It runs on fuel from the tank but has a little fan that circulates the warm air. It can be timed, even remotely, to start warming so when you enter the car its all cosy. I sold that to the wife last night, coming out from nice dinner on a rainy 6 deg night. Too easy. | |||
| Jeff Martin Frequent User Username: jeff_r_1 Post Number: 669 Registered: 07-2018 |
The cars were never that unreliable, or as reliable as a car with SU carbs, fuel pump and Delco Remy distributor. That makes them no better or worse than a Morris Minor, or TR6. The brakes work well enough, if they were that bad, it would have been unacceptable. When I have my car on the road, I'll do a "steep hill" test by pulling forward and then do a mock run of a parallel park and see what I happens _ I will be using my park brake _ with and without. | |||
| Jason Watson Experienced User Username: crikeydawn Post Number: 195 Registered: 07-2023 |
In the fullness of time Jeff. Thank you. I still don't have this dam diff together so no need to panic. haha It appears in 2024, a Dynalite for an S/Cloud is in the making. Pre orders can be placed for a lousy £768 or $1460AU plus post plus tax. So it appears the age old dilemma resurfaces. Some will say why bother, but for ones who wish to improve the charging system while maintain looks to mirror originality is a dilemma. Especially when the car is worth 60-80K at best, will find that kind of participation leaves one with a way over funded project. That may not matter to some, but unfortunately for the car, I'm not that guy. I also don't feel like being the one to fly the flag in the charge to raise values as more and more cars sadly slide due to participation costs. My S is a standard steel, RR/B's V2 so to speak, or the second real car of their own after the Mk VI/Dawn. To make their own car and not just a motor and chassis is a real step forward for a company. Then to add economic realities and social expectations of the time, I think is just as awesome as how the company started. However these SS cars worth and decline in originality from the realities that dictate this are ever present. To think a coach built car of the era is worth so much but not a proper RR/B, is quite skewed to me. Coach builders, a third party, an evolution from the horse carriage, that more or less etched out a living riding the back of RR/B success, producing very limited numbers as the marketing tool to justify the price, to appeal to the super rich and famous as a boutique must have. I mean they even piggy backed RR/B's marketing. Is just strange or seems wrong. Beautiful workmanship for sure, real craftsmen yes, but not 2, 3 times the value of the effort, engineering, and craftsmanship it's all sitting on. I guess that's marketing, money, and the human desire to have something a bit different. Something that makes them feel a little special. Its why RR/B exist. If I'm open I was first attracted to the Countryman because it was different, quirky, appealed to my outdoor side, but if I'm honest really it was more about me having something a bit special and money. It was also about something that may have some chance of covering its restoration costs. Anyway....just the way I see it. Long live the Standard Steel I say. I understand an alternator out of a Shadow fits the bill with a little bracket modification, and there a few around mostly certainly with low kilometres and at a fair price. Or perhaps a new Lucus alternator with second hand bracket, as I found the thread which mentions the spacers and pulley required to fit the original belt. Even better the links still work! | |||
| Mark Aldridge Frequent User Username: mark_aldridge Post Number: 879 Registered: 10-2008 |
Using the parking brake helps but the accuracy of stopping is still questionable. Both myself and my (5feet 1inch ) wife have shunted the old dear many times. My car is an early car with single master cylinder and no power steering. My wife accomplishing a 3 point turn (23 point?) in a very narrow country road with a ditch back and front sticks in my memory. | |||
| Jason Watson Experienced User Username: crikeydawn Post Number: 196 Registered: 07-2023 |
Mark, I'm surprised the wife drives it at all with no power steer, so good on her. Still I think after all the effort I will have gone through when this car is done, too shunt it into something, even ever so lightly due to vague brakes, will torment me. If you adjust the servo up and it works sharp, please let us all know. On a brighter note you are the man I believe who did a Lucus ACR conversion in 2015. Going well? Still have any dope on it? I found a rebuilt Lucas ACR, but it puts out 32A which is not much more then the generator. I guess it does that more consistently though. Think aftermarket ones can do 45 to 55A. I then found this brand of look alike generator/alternator that does 65A. Still expansive but price is coming down compared to Dynalite. So thought I'd better go check mine to see if its a C47 or C48. It's a C47 that ironically been overhauled, painted, and looks new. No, actually it looks like a show piece all shiny gloss black with clean aluminium. The previous owner is full of surprises. https://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/p/lucas-c47 | |||
| Jason Watson Experienced User Username: crikeydawn Post Number: 197 Registered: 07-2023 |
Anyone heard of a Brake Servo locking pin/bar modification? Its been put to me there is and article somewhere in RROC or RREC on such matter. I can't find it but perhaps it goes something like this. Please advise if my understanding is mislaid. The foot brake is applied which pulls lever on the servo, this lever expands a ball bearing cam putting pressure on a plate that has a lining. That lining meets with another metal lining that spins in the direction of the gbox. The higher the speed, and harder you push the foot brake, dictates how those linings grab and engaging the front brakes to assist the rears. This is the hydraulic system. Under 10mph you only have a mechanical lever system to the rear brakes, so in reverse, partially weighted on hills, the brakes will not be overly responsive. Both these systems however are governed by that bull bearing cam, and a clutch so to speak. So you have stopped. If the car rolls back (disengaging servo via gbox movement), or you release the foot brake (disengaging servo via return springs), the whole mechanism retracts releasing the clutch as it goes and has no friction until the system expands and connects again, be that in a forward or reverse direction. It remains in a neutral position, or "in play" as the cam expands again in the braked travelling direction, to engage the linings, to allow for brake application, as you push the foot brake. So I'm wondering if the fitting of a locking pin that holds the cam levers apart to a set point, so they are pre expanded but not engaged, is what the article is about. Something to take up the slack so to speak. If the cam only requires slight movement to expand and engage the linings, then all this play would be removed. Thus making it more sensitive to forward and reverse braking reducing this dreaded free roll experience. I guess given this is a 1920s solution to brake equalisation and application, play in gbox rotation, diff, drive shaft and the systems linkages will prevail. As to free roll will remain to some extent for the cams expansion to engage the clutch. Minimum play in the whole system however would go some way to reducing this free roll in changing direction. Thoughts.. | |||
| Jason Watson Experienced User Username: crikeydawn Post Number: 198 Registered: 07-2023 |
Huh, you would think the memory of an 86yo would be sharper. haha Turns out my info's memory of such locking pin is related to the servo, but 50% right. After a life time of reading to fill the mind, a collection of letters to the Editor from RREC, in a wonderfully bound 5 part folder collection of technical manuals from 1970 to 1990 was produced. Have to admit if you are into pre war then this pre internet club communication is an awesome resource. Still the article in Q relates to pinning or locking several linkages to make the front brakes come on with the rears in all applications. Talks about if the rear lock the servo locks with the gbox, hence loosing brake power to the fronts. Talks about such modification required consideration for axil strength, load distribution, legal considerations, and originality. Think the more I read on the servo, the less I like it. This bolt on disc set up is sounding better all the time. Am having a conversation with an independent TMR brake modification inspector this morning. Current code of requirements for such modification
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| Jason Watson Experienced User Username: crikeydawn Post Number: 199 Registered: 07-2023 |
Seems there are a ones that market hi torque starter motors, then fail to deliver, or its only for a V8s. It was put to me if the fuel pumps don't have a minute to fill the SU carbs, then yes the motor winds over and over lifeless till things get primed. I wonder if the clip watched was exactly that. Still this mob do Hi Torque starters for Stand Steels. If they do turn over for some time without life perhaps faster starting for overall engine life is worth the money. https://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/c/bentley | |||
| Brian Vogel Grand Master Username: guyslp Post Number: 3377 Registered: 06-2009 |
Jason Watson wrote, in part:
Which I can say is unquestionably true. When I first got my first Shadow I could not understand why the car took so long to start, until someone told me that I needed to let the pumps get the carbs primed before ever turning the key to the start position. You can clearly hear (if you can hear, I now have hearing aids and can hear whether or not I'm using them) the SU pumps doing their "tick tick tick" while priming the carbs, then they go silent once the float valves cut off the flow. Then, and only then, do you turn the key to the start position. Brian | |||
| Jason Watson Experienced User Username: crikeydawn Post Number: 200 Registered: 07-2023 |
Music to my ears Brian, thank you. I'm hearing more and more there is no need for a hi torque starter. To be honest priming is probably mentioned in the handbook, which mine is lost in the post at present. Have also been told at some point RR/B once had a switch for the A & B side of the pump, so you had redundancy. Somewhere that got deleted to just the two sides working in sync, with the down side if one fails one does not know until the other does. I have to install a new pump so an A & B switch will be going in. | |||
| Mark Aldridge Frequent User Username: mark_aldridge Post Number: 880 Registered: 10-2008 |
Jason, my wife drives every car that we have owned, prewar Austins( she co drove our Austin 7 with me from John o' Groats to Lands end, 850miles stopping only for fuel and repairs !and 350 miles home next day. My son who was 8 sat in the Dicky seat.) ,Rovers, Mercs, Alfa's MG's, Austin Healey's and Crewe cars.She is an ex Ballet teacher and dancer and competes Pro Am as my professional partner in over60 Ballroom dance competitions, so pretty strong and fit. With regard to the ACR alternator conversion, I have all my notes somewhere ! and will find them. My alternator is 45 Amp and works well particularly with electronics such as sat nav, modern radio mp3, phones and electronic ignition. The alternator uses the dynamo mountings with a spacer between the backmount and the rear dynamo bracket, bypass the control box and the only problem was machining the pulley to fit the alternator shaft, easily done. | |||
| Brian Vogel Grand Master Username: guyslp Post Number: 3378 Registered: 06-2009 |
Jason, If a new starter happens to be needed, I would definitely never try to source the old-style OEM Lucas starter (though if it could be rebuilt, perhaps). I put a modern gear-reduction starter in SRH33576 when the Lucas (which weighs a freakin' ton) finally died [I still have it in my garage] and never looked back. Provided the carbs were primed, it starts the car with far greater ease than the original starter did. But so long as the original starter can do its job, why change it? You need to have your carbs primed before ever turning the key to the start position. In LRK37110, which has the Pierburg rotary vane pump, I still let it whir for a few moments before turning the key to start it. That car still has the OEM Lucas starter. Brian | |||
| Jason Watson Frequent User Username: crikeydawn Post Number: 202 Registered: 07-2023 |
Mark, the wife screws her face up, but I do dream of floating this car to Europe and touring one day (if we are allowed too or can get fuel for it). I watch the Tour de France bike race and dream of visiting these little villages, even greater in this grand old car. Just pulling up in John o' Groats or Lands End has enough inspiration. Or Giggleswick to Dull begs the adventure. We have some nice places down under, but names in comparison are pretty tame. Probably totally impractical in todays pace of the race driving a 60yo car, but reckon once its on the road the wife will enjoy zaniness of it. After owning English metal in the past, instead of leaving home with a boot full of tools and spares, the plan is prep well and service or replace it all before, so "in theory" one can enjoy the ride. The fall back is RR/B have reliability on their side if set up well, and somewhat simple to work on if a random mechanic is required. It's probably me more than the the wife that doesn't find it amusing anymore when the car is unreliable, nor one that leaks on your foot. Big ask I know for English engineering, but that's one of the retirement plans, or rephrase that to dream. Should probably also go get some counselling on being let down after one has done their best also. So no rush Mark, but I'd love to see your alternator info. Brian, as it turns out the starter has also been serviced/rebuilt with this car in pieces that I bought. Has some re-manufactured aluminium U shaped bracket with a spare that was highlighted to me "don't loose those bits whatever you do". But like my whole story with this car, I'm not there yet so really not sure what it does. However it's good to hear again the original stater will suffice particularly if carburettors are understood. Possibly even a positive in 2024 against youthful joy riders if the kill switch is overlooked. I don't mind things ticking or wiring on start up, or even a short beep, Its my style of a car letting one know it's ready for work. Also like a key to turn with appropriate lights indicating life. I'll spare you my gripe with the wife's push button wonder. | |||
| Alan Dibley Frequent User Username: alsdibley Post Number: 403 Registered: 10-2009 |
I'm certainly not the only one on this forum who has toured Scotland from a base in the south-west, in a 1970s RR/B - thousands of miles in total. On three trips the only problem was "leaks on your foot" fixed by blowing up the drain pipe from below. Even in the country of their birth they make friends (particularly Bentleys) and induce a sense of wonder in "normal" civilians, and may raise questions like "Do you mind if I take a photograph?" !!! As you say, preparation is all. Petrol is not a problem, trust me. Much of Scotland has an awesome beauty of it's own, and arriving at John o' Groats is sort of special but Land's End not so much - you have to do it for the principal of the thing - LE to JoG. Because the UK is quite small compared with Oz, no matter where you are you will be within a reasonable distance of another RR/B nut who who will help if the absolutely unthinkable happens - FTP. Search among the contributors to this forum to find some. I look forward to meeting the Watsons some day. Alan D. 1971 Bentley T. | |||
| Jason Watson Frequent User Username: crikeydawn Post Number: 204 Registered: 07-2023 |
Why thank you Alan, its a little way off but there is a plan, or an idea at least. By fuel I mean the world has not transcended that far that old school fuel is only sold in 20lt drums to enthusiast at crazy prices. I understand California is leading the charge to rid the State of classic/vintage cars while saving the planet. My fear is it's funny how things catch on with politicians, EVs as one, cars of a certain Euro spec banned from cites another. Oddly enough I have not read anything about California wanting to ban international shipping from gracing their ports. Perhaps somewhat difficult to justify the mountainous volumes of crude 1 ship uses in comparison to what may take 100s of thousands of rarely to periodically driven cars to consume over several years. Have to admit the idea of touring gets a hearing in my house simply because the car has a roof, or more like what most women are happy with. At our National Rally I bunked with a couple who's wife hates his P1. Stunning it was, how nice the childhood link to the car was for him, the wife calls the car "bitch". She's always topless, full of hot air, can be deathly cold, loud, hard to handle, and he spends way too much time with her. A bit sad for him and the wife I feel. The wife travels in her own car, not the RR. Think my biggest negative for touring in the S, is I want this car to be stunning beautiful for my own enjoyment, but not keen on attention it may attract. Happy to chat to other RR-B nuts, but randoms appearing from nowhere most places one goes would wear thin for me, let alone the wife. Perhaps that's over done, but again at the National Rally, the Silver Ghost I was in was like an out door Christmas lunch and flies. Maybe an S would be different. | |||
| Jason Watson Frequent User Username: crikeydawn Post Number: 205 Registered: 07-2023 |
Back on modifications Lucas style mirrors for Clound-S series. I see them often mounted to the stainless steel casting at the front of the quarter glass. My query is, how effective are they? To me they don't seem to protrude out far enough to clear the bodywork as it widens towards the rear. You see backwards but loose detail of where the rear of the car actually is. Clear view of the mirror may also be partly blocked by the leading window channel, and angle of the drivers head position. Many factory fitted mirrors seem to be mounted on par with the leading window channel, not well before. I presume this is for clear vision. Be great to hear experiences. I see there are 150mm armed mirrors called swan neck, but the base for them is too large for quarter glass mounting. The length however of the arm from that position appears ideal to see down the body, and be tucked in enough to clear passing foot traffic. Not sure on drivers head position and clear view though. If a spot can be found on the door like at the leading window channel, they protrude a fair way out from the body begging to be clipped by a passer by. Kind of look weird also. I would presume Convex glass would be beneficial regardless of mirror style. Of course the swan necks don't come in convex that I can find. So, the unfortunate long answer for effective mirrors seems to me, either fit Lucas style around the leading window channel position. Or fit convex glass to swan necks, grind the base and re-polished, and mount to the quarter glass, then hope you have clear vision past the window channel. Fender mounted mirrors are a no go for me. Anyone car to comment of what they have found. | |||
| Jason Watson Frequent User Username: crikeydawn Post Number: 208 Registered: 07-2023 |
Well the punt turned out pretty well. These swan necks mount on the door's upper stying and can be positioned so they miss the quarter glass nicely. Furthermore can be positioned a little forward of the windows vertical glass channel leaving a full opening and a clear view the mirror. They extend out 150mm from the body allowing to see down the widening body lines, but remain within the overall body styling so can't be knocked by a passer by. They also don't have screws to tighten the mirror as plenty of the Lucas knock offs do.  |
