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Eric Molenaar
Yet to post message
Username: aussiewraith78

Post Number: 1
Registered: 06-2021
Posted on Wednesday, 22 September, 2021 - 18:54:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

G"Day All,
My name is Eric and I purchased my first Rolls Royce earlier this year 2021. It's a 1978 Silver Wraith LRH32854 and was running great until i decided to clean the pistons in the dash pots and now it's running rough so I guess i have lots more reading to do and more You Tube to study.
Thanks to the Admin for the Add to this most informative forum.
Cheers for now
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Martin Webster
New User
Username: martin_webster

Post Number: 19
Registered: 09-2018
Posted on Wednesday, 22 September, 2021 - 21:31:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Eric,
How did you clean the pistons ? They normally donít need any attention as long as the dash pots are sufficiently replenished with oil. What are the symptoms of the problem you are experiencing?
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Alan Dibley
Frequent User
Username: alsdibley

Post Number: 332
Registered: 10-2009
Posted on Wednesday, 22 September, 2021 - 22:58:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

If you mixed the wrong dashpot or piston back on the wrong carb it will upset things.

And did you put oil in the dashpots?

Sorry if I'm "teaching grandpa to suck eggs".

Alan D.
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Jeff Martin
Frequent User
Username: jeff_r_1

Post Number: 294
Registered: 07-2018
Posted on Thursday, 23 September, 2021 - 01:56:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

You may have accidently pulled a vacuum line off getting at things, or anything, there's a fair amount of plumbing in the way.
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Geoff Wootton
Grand Master
Username: dounraey

Post Number: 2278
Registered: 05-2012
Posted on Thursday, 23 September, 2021 - 02:37:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Did you rest the piston assembly on the needle. If so you may have bent or de-centralized it causing it to catch on the jet.
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Eric Molenaar
New User
Username: aussiewraith78

Post Number: 2
Registered: 06-2021
Posted on Thursday, 23 September, 2021 - 09:21:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi All thanks for the feed back.
I wiped the piston with carb cleaner and a clean rag and also did one at a time to not mix them up.
I also added engine oil to the dashpots being careful not to over fill.
I was careful in regards to the needle but will re inspect. I also purchased a dial gauge set from Kelly Opfar so will have a look at balancing the carbs...My wife was right, should of left it alone it was running like a dream.
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David Gore
Moderator
Username: david_gore

Post Number: 4015
Registered: 04-2003
Posted on Thursday, 23 September, 2021 - 13:25:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Eric,

Please do not criticise yourself for trying something new and encountering problems.

We all have "been there, done that" and learnt more from our problems than we do from our successes.

All our regular contributors will confirm this fact of DIY custodianship as I am doing now.

Never forget there is a lot of experience and information available from our ever-helpful contributing members.

All you have to do is provide details concerning the nature of your problem and all the circumstances leading up to it becoming an issue as you have done.

If you continue to experience problems, the how, when, where and why details usually will help us in providing more detailed information and advice to help you resolve the problem[s].

P.S. ALWAYS IGNORE "I told you so" comments especially from other family members.

P.P.S. Have you downloaded the free High Resolution version of TSD 2476 from the Australian Technical Library? Chapter U has the relevant information on the RR Emission Control system fitted to your vehicle. In particular Sections U2 and U3 are essential reading before doing any work on the carburettors:

http://rrtechnical.info/sy/tsd2476/tsd2476hires.html

.
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Omar M. Shams
Grand Master
Username: omar

Post Number: 2172
Registered: 04-2009
Posted on Thursday, 23 September, 2021 - 14:29:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Dear Eric,
i would not touch the balancing if the car ran well before you cleaned the carb pistons.
Something simple has happened and that requires some careful assessment before you delve into the carb tuning. The tune on these carbs does not wander that easily.

I would look at all the vacuum lines - some may have cracked rubber that you cant readily see.

Next I would take the dashpots off to ensure that they go up and down freely in the respective bodies and then I would report back to the forum with the findings in order to go to the next stage.

In parallel I would also look at the wiring to make sure that nothing has been inadvertently disconnected and most importantly ----- that the stove pipes have not broken off.
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Patrick Lockyer.
Grand Master
Username: pat_lockyer

Post Number: 2470
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Thursday, 23 September, 2021 - 17:40:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

When you say running rough does the engine vibrate?, idle slower, engine hunting, miss-fire sound at the exhaust tail pipe.
Could be a plug failed etc.
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Brian Vogel
Grand Master
Username: guyslp

Post Number: 3218
Registered: 06-2009
Posted on Friday, 24 September, 2021 - 03:46:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

David,

I am in absolute agreement with you about self-criticism for trying something, in good faith, and having it "go pear shaped." We've all done it. Ideally, it should teach us what follows.

There is absolute merit in the old adage, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

With these cars, there's virtually always something that's likely to be truly "broke," even if that something is trivial and cosmetic. For those things that seem to be perfectly happy and functioning as intended, doing only necessary maintenance is an excellent general policy to have.

With appropriate "care and feeding" the "run to failure" philosophy is likely to keep you going without a hitch for the rest of your natural lifetime for quite a few things on these cars. I have seen a lot more misery that is the direct result of trying to fix/improve something that's working just fine, thanks, than anything else. And that's not just limited to the world of RR/Bentley, or even cars.

If it's not broken, and is very highly unlikely to break, and we're not talking about something that's so hard to get to that it's an exception case for "doing it while I've got everything torn apart," then don't mess with it to any great degree. Keeping the oil topped up in beautifully functioning carbs is a perfect example. They don't need anything else. You'll absolutely know when they suddenly do need more extensive care and attention, and that could be many years off.

Brian

P.S. Patrick's request for additional information is spot on. It really would help to know the exact nature of the misbehavior. I've even done recordings with my smartphone and posted links in situations like this, since words often cannot capture what a short video with sound does.
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Geoff Wootton
Grand Master
Username: dounraey

Post Number: 2279
Registered: 05-2012
Posted on Friday, 24 September, 2021 - 07:41:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

There is merit in the old adage, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" but I wouldn't use it as a maxim. I like the sentiment but in truth I'd be a hypocrite if I said I abided by it.

I have replaced my entire ignition system with the exception of the actual distributor and reconditioned the fuel pumps, carbs and replaced the fuel filters. All this on an engine that was in running order. Knowing the age and condition of the parts and the knowledge everything is adjusted correctly gives me the assurance that the possibility of an FTP is much less likely.

So I'd encourage Eric to continue down the path of learning about and maintaining his car. I'd recommend that in addition to the the dial gauges from Kelly he invests in a quality timing light.

I don't think this is a contrarian viewpoint. It's just reinforcing Brian's statement - "doing necessary maintenance is an excellent general policy to have"
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Brian Vogel
Grand Master
Username: guyslp

Post Number: 3219
Registered: 06-2009
Posted on Friday, 24 September, 2021 - 08:04:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Geoff,

And I'm not being contrarian to your sentiments, either, but what any one of us considers "necessary to our peace of mind," is always a huge factor in what we consider "necessary maintenance."

I just want to re-emphasize that, in my calculus, likelihood of failure without being touched, versus likelihood of problems or (less likely) failure if touched, is always in my mind.

It's not that one never touches anything, but doing an accurate risk assessment in regard to the probable consequences of either leaving something untouched, with watchful waiting, versus "preventive maintenance" that can cause issues of its own is imperative.

I find on automotive forums, as a general rule, the voices of the "you've got to engage in maintenance that goes into shipwright's disease" camp are far, far louder and more common than those advocating the opposite.

I'm just fulfilling my self-appointed role of voice in the wilderness that, "benign neglect with watchful waiting" (and NB: benign neglect is not the same as true neglect - you still pay attention and do regular checks and "simple maintenance") is a valid choice.

A more intensive maintenance regimen than the one I advocate appeals to many, which is fine. But the maintenance hypochondriacs, who are legion, cause a world of hurt in my observation.

And, with regard to, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it," I offer the following observation:

A sensible person realizes that all principles that can be expressed in a statement of finite length are oversimplified.
~ Robert Heppe


All maxims or aphorisms have exceptions. But their purpose is presenting core concepts, not enumerating exception cases nor dealing in nuance. And, in my case, I simply presume all adults know this, so I don't deal with the exceptions except when they happen to be a topic of their own.

Brian
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Graham Phillips
Frequent User
Username: playtime

Post Number: 435
Registered: 03-2019
Posted on Saturday, 25 September, 2021 - 08:19:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

G'day everyone,....

Well I was beaten to it again,...

Yep, a video will help a lot,...

Also we like pictures around here.

;)



Graham.
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Eric Molenaar
New User
Username: aussiewraith78

Post Number: 3
Registered: 06-2021
Posted on Saturday, 25 September, 2021 - 23:24:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

To my esteemed collegues, Martin Alan Jeff Geoff David Omar Patrick Brian and Graham, Thank you all so much for your kind words and support. It really makes one feel welcome. And to fulfil the custodian role we play looking after these truly wonderful motor cars.

I have an update for you all on my Silver Wraith LRH32854. Unfortunately I read Omars post 12 hours to late, maybe to do with the time difference and I did balance the carbs with the dial indicators and did get the car better but not perfect.

I found an old school carby guy and took it to him this morning and he pulled the tops of the carbs looked at the needles checked the piston and said they are worn but not bad, he did comment that something was oval shaped and it should be round. (seat i think) he said.

He said that I had done nothing wrong in cleaning and adjusting the carbs but they could do with a refurbishment. He then put the car on his oscilloscope and found a HT lead not performing as it should so congratulations to Patrick who was on the money.

That's a beer i owe you mate, thanks.

I have purchased NGK iridium plugs. Should I alter the gap or leave them? Think its supposed to be 0.90mm also looking at HT leads, should I go with the Magnecor from flying spares or is their a better alternative?

Because of all the piping in the engine bay and the brake reservoir the job looks fairly interesting. Is there a lot of disassembly to do to get to the plugs or is it a matter of a good extension with a wobble bar and hold my tongue right...will be appreciative of your guidance here gentlemen.

I'm looking forward to this next challenge and making my car better for it. What an ironic coincidence, I touch something and something else breaks.Sods law for sure.

Cheers Eric.
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Trevor Hodgekinson
Frequent User
Username: wm20

Post Number: 255
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Sunday, 26 September, 2021 - 08:17:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

We ended up with a fleet of 8 cars so did a lot of maintenance.
When a plug lead failed we fitted the silver spiral wound leads used on racing cars
Not cheap but a once in a lifetime repair.
For the plugs we used a right angle ratchet driver with a 3/8 stepdown & a 3/8 drive thin walled motorcycle spark plug socket on the rear plugs
From memory most of the others it was just a matter of finding the correct size extension
Be very careful as 5 of the cars we bought all had crossed threads on the real plugs so obviously this is common problem or perhaps they were all serviced by the same not so good mechanic.
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David Gore
Moderator
Username: david_gore

Post Number: 4017
Registered: 04-2003
Posted on Sunday, 26 September, 2021 - 08:29:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Eric,

Re removing/replacing spark plugs; 6 plugs are a straight forward replacement however the other 2 are the complete reverse needing long extensions and a "wobble" joint or universal joint to seat the spark plug socket squarely on the plug. Be wary as it is very easy to round off the corners with the force needed to remove these plugs if they haven't been removed for some time and the plug socket is not square on the plug when you try to undo it.

Of course, I am referring the the dreaded B3 [worst] and B4 [slightly less worst] plugs under the hydraulic fluid reservoir.

Just take your time , make sure the socket is squarely and firmly located on the plugs before trying to undo them. An arm with a long handle is very helpful in undoing a tight plug as they can require considerable force to initially break the bond between the plug and cylinder head especially if considerable time has elapsed since they were installed.

Patience is a virtue with this particular service procedure.
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Brian Vogel
Grand Master
Username: guyslp

Post Number: 3220
Registered: 06-2009
Posted on Monday, 27 September, 2021 - 08:54:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I know for certain I've posted about this process, including photos, either here, on rollsroyceforums.com, or most likely both.

I also posted about getting the plugs threaded back in using a piece of hose.

Brian
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Larry Kavanagh
Frequent User
Username: shadow_11

Post Number: 786
Registered: 05-2016
Posted on Monday, 27 September, 2021 - 09:26:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Eric, what the carb guy was probably referring to as being "oval rather than round" is the main jet in the centre of the carb, it's the part that the needle on the carb pistons slots into and from where the fuel in the carb float bowls is sucked up by vacuum when the engine turns.The carb piston needle is tapered to a point at the tip so the higher the needle rises the more fuel can be sucked up. If the main jet orifice has been worn to an oval shape the fuel metering will be affected allowing too much fuel up and the engine would run richer causing the spark plugs to become sooty. There's no point in fitting new plugs until the carb problem is sorted.
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Eric Molenaar
New User
Username: aussiewraith78

Post Number: 4
Registered: 06-2021
Posted on Monday, 27 September, 2021 - 23:14:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Larry, thanks for the advice.
I have rang the carb guy today and he is ordering parts to service both carburetors.
Should run like a dream when its all done.
Thank you all for your words of wisdom and experience.
Cheers Eric

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