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Mark Luft
Frequent User
Username: bentleyman1993

Post Number: 283
Registered: 10-2016
Posted on Friday, 02 August, 2019 - 07:27:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I saw this and for some reason, I thought of Vlad.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/a-man-peed-in-his-backyard-he-exposed-his-family-to-nuclear-radiation/ar-AAFbMQO?ocid=spartandhp
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Patrick Ryan
Grand Master
Username: patrick_r

Post Number: 2133
Registered: 04-2016
Posted on Friday, 02 August, 2019 - 10:19:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

That does sound a lot like Vlad Mark
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Mike Thompson
Frequent User
Username: vroomrr

Post Number: 822
Registered: 04-2019
Posted on Saturday, 03 August, 2019 - 09:05:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Could be worse. The guy has a conjugal visit with his wife and then he says oops, I shouldn't have done that. Takes her to the emergency room and it look like Andromeda Strain time to clean her out.

andromeda strain
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Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov
Prolific User
Username: soviet

Post Number: 1525
Registered: 02-2013
Posted on Saturday, 03 August, 2019 - 22:57:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Well actually its not me but I did have a relationship with a Soviet lady who was exposed to very high doses of nuclear radiation in Chernobyl and at Baikinor in Kazakhstan the rocket site and she did have to sign a document which forbade her leaving the Soviet Union for ten years.

She had another document which gave all kinds of liberties. For example to get a bus ticket to take me from the city to the airport you must apply for a ticket the day before you want to get on the bus and you have to pay. Not us. We just got on the bus without a tickets she flashed the document said Chernobyl and the driver replied take a seat.

And before you wags ask me if she glowed in the dark, put this way the woman was indeed rocket fuel in everyway including the fact that she could skull an endless amount of vodka and walk me until I was virtually crying from searing pain in both knee caps.

And then there was the night where it was minus 40C below zero and there was a blizzard. Now what that feels like is a face full of fast moving glass shards piercing your skin - really painful.

Its easy to see that any foreign troops invading Russia in winter would perish just like the Nazis and boy did they cop a brutal flogging all the way back to Berlin. Hence the fact that the Germans were racing towards the Americans to surrender.
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ross kowalski
Prolific User
Username: cdfpw

Post Number: 1190
Registered: 11-2015
Posted on Saturday, 03 August, 2019 - 23:19:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Vlad,

The Russians played their hand well with the Eastern front. "Oh, you Germans want 20,000 more acres of pasture?". " Just be sure to have miserably stretched supply lines for winter."

Also, the T34 which people give short shift to sometimes was a masterstroke. I think the German tank command was first surprised by how good they were then doubly surprised by how many their were.
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ross kowalski
Prolific User
Username: cdfpw

Post Number: 1191
Registered: 11-2015
Posted on Saturday, 03 August, 2019 - 23:21:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Mark,

Also radioactive urine is bad news.

I hope I don't ever get the condition where they need to do that to me.
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Patrick Ryan
Grand Master
Username: patrick_r

Post Number: 2134
Registered: 04-2016
Posted on Monday, 05 August, 2019 - 20:58:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Ross, if ever they did have to do that to you, you could take your pick of one of these



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ross kowalski
Prolific User
Username: cdfpw

Post Number: 1195
Registered: 11-2015
Posted on Tuesday, 06 August, 2019 - 02:17:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Patrick,

Please tell me those are not a real product.
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Patrick Ryan
Grand Master
Username: patrick_r

Post Number: 2135
Registered: 04-2016
Posted on Tuesday, 06 August, 2019 - 06:10:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Yes mate.
Real product from the net.

Did you want to buy/wear these?
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Mark Luft
Frequent User
Username: bentleyman1993

Post Number: 295
Registered: 10-2016
Posted on Saturday, 05 October, 2019 - 00:06:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

For the electric car guys in OZ:
https://climatechangedispatch.com/electric-car-chargers-diesel/?fbclid=IwAR1XaoikaKJedx5iWPrNxIwh7GXKNy4vORz0nGHG7t22ee7uAXrUqZXE-LI
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Patrick Lockyer.
Grand Master
Username: pat_lockyer

Post Number: 2189
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Saturday, 05 October, 2019 - 02:49:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

And this : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OHstY_kKUY for the house and charging the electric cars for the not so long trips unless you have a Tesla Ludicrous etc with a good range for OZ.
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Trevor Hodgekinson
Experienced User
Username: wm20

Post Number: 78
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Saturday, 05 October, 2019 - 10:09:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Full EV's are a fantasy to capture the imagination & wallets of the rich & guilty.
If you really wanted to "save the planet " via transport then you would be making EV light delivery vehicles not 300kph cars.
Sydney has 160,000 light delivery vehicle ( 2 T & Under ).
Most of which will gobble 50 l of fuel a day if not more, 5 days a week 50 weeks a year.
Makes mums 1 tank a week / fourtnight look a bit pale dosen't it.
Further more delivery vehicle operators would happily toss $ 60,000 or more at a vehicle that will save them $ 10,000 to $ 20,000 a year in fuel costs and another $ 5,000 in servicing.

There will never be enough members of the public willing to fork out double to triple the purchase price for a vehicle that will never pay for itself in lower fuel prices.
Where as transport operators would be queing up at the despatch to get their hands on one so it would be profitable from day one.

However this would mean that the manufacturers could possibly end up making a profit thus managers would not have any grounds going cap in hand to governments begging for subsibies & research grants
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ross kowalski
Prolific User
Username: cdfpw

Post Number: 1245
Registered: 11-2015
Posted on Saturday, 05 October, 2019 - 16:05:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Trevor,

Electric cars make no less sense than petrol cars did when they started.

But they offer a ton of features that people want. So what you need is a cheap one which will gradually happen, hopefully as infrastructure increases at the same rate, then presto lots of electric cars in the first world.

If you ask people if they would have purchased an electric version of their current car if the cost was the same, most say yes in my experience.

Make no mistake, there will be lots of electric cars in the system in the hands of commuters and grandmas, etc. The question is just when.
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Trevor Hodgekinson
Experienced User
Username: wm20

Post Number: 79
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Sunday, 06 October, 2019 - 00:35:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I suppose I did not express my thoughts quite as good as I could.
Yes in time when we get a battery with sufficient energy density and at a reasonable cost they will become viable and right now the Aluminium cell is looking very good. Lithium Ion will not be viable for mass use till the price comes down drastically and the safety increases several orders of magnitiude .
Remember if a lithium battery catches fire there is nothing you can do but watch it burn . You can not put water on it so you are left with nothing but spraying retardant foam ( highly toxic ) over everything nearby to prevent a major fire happening.
We have already seen several houses going up in smoke because of malfunctions with the battery chargers.

In order to get real life feedback and acceptance you need big volumes and you won't be getting that at $ 60,000 a pop.
However there is a market that would jump through hoops of fire to take advantage of the fuel cost savings and promote developement through high volume sales and that is the light delivery market.
Further more you could power them with conventional chemistry spiral cell lead acid or tin acid batteries because weight is not a big issue for trucks and neither is space.
There is a mile of dead space under the chassis rails, a large flattish roof area for solar cells plus capacity for both regenerative breaking and space for a small back up generator.
The last time I was involved with a traffic survey on a fleet of delivery vehicles the average time spent stationary was somewhere around 65% . The inner city drivers ( me included ) could easily knock up better than 80% . And a lot of that time was idleing in traffic or at loading dock waiting for you window.
I was going through around 60 l of LPG a day.
So the biggest and immediate bang for you buck would be to make electric delivery vehicles as there is a genuine massive market sitting there desperate to take advantage of the lower running costs.
Add to that an almost instant reduction of emissions to the tune of 2,000,000,000 liters of fuel and that is just for the greater Sydney metro area and it would happen in a matter of months.
Those sorts of numbers from private motorists will take decades.

Add to that once you have 160,000 vehicles needing to be recharged daily you have a critical mass that makes recharging stations economic to run.
This is exactly what happened with LPG powered taxis.
LPG was going nowhere till the taxis switched over so then there was sufficient demand to justify every second servo shoving in an LPG tank then once that happened government authorities followed suit and finally Joe Public.
By the same powers of numbers, now that the taxi fleet has gone over to petrol /hybrid vehicles 2/3 of the LPG tanks have been pulled out way before the Howard government's conversion tax has paid back the subsidies given to fleet owners to convert to LPG.
Been a while since i have seen the figures but from memory around 2010 2/3 of the road fuel consumed in Sydney went into the tanks of busses , taxis, delivery vehicles & trucks.
So if you really want to make a difference that is where the effort should be going, not trying to out Porshe Porshe.
It is like the stupidity of bringing in tier II emission regulations on hand held power tools.
So your 30cc leaf blower is now running too lean and will wear out in about 2/3 the time of an old ( illegal as of June 1 2020 ) tier I leaf blower.
As if that will make the slightest difference to atmospheric pollution, considering we are right now building a second international airport for jets that dump around 200 gallons of unburned fuel strait out the back of the engines at take off & about 1/2 that on landings.
One week of operations of Kingsford Smith dumps more Jet A1 into the air than the entire nations mowers & chainsaws fuel consumption over a full year. And the real hyprocracy of this is Tier II was supposed to come into effect on July 1 2019 but because of the drought the retail sector ( read Bunnings ) is holding too much stock of unsold Tier I power equipment so it has been backdated to 2020 and the word is it might even go back to 2021 , so much for desperate pollution mitigation
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David Gore
Moderator
Username: david_gore

Post Number: 3473
Registered: 04-2003
Posted on Sunday, 06 October, 2019 - 07:02:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Trevor,

I am certain Elon Musk has already spent time thinking like you and is well advanced with the development of electric delivery vehicles especially autonomous drive large semi-trailers.

As I see the present state of play, the Li-ion battery remains the first choice given the power density advantage over other storage types, recharging times and despite its inherent safety problems. Other current battery types will probably need "quick change" facilities to reduce down-time from recharging these batteries "on vehicle" to be competitive with Li-ion batteries plus they will have to match the power density of Li-ion batteries to take advantage of the greater service life and safety advantages possible with alternative battery technologies.

One thing is certain, storage battery technology research is and will receive increasing importance and financial resources given the potential markets and profitability potential available from replacing existing technology.
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Trevor Hodgekinson
Experienced User
Username: wm20

Post Number: 80
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Sunday, 06 October, 2019 - 10:10:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

As for Elon, I seriously doubt it.
I rather feel he is all about grabbing publicity & the lime light to attract investors who have tried once already to toss him out of Tesla.
To me it appears he sees himself as a cross between Enzo Ferrarri & Henry Rolls rather than a Henry Ford and we all know which Henry died a pauper & which one set his family as a top 200 for the following decades.

And I don't know about you, but having thousands of vehicles driving around with Litlium batteries that will ignite if mechanically damaged creating a burn intense enough & hot enough to ignite the bitumen that the road is made from is not a place I would want to be.
Look at the damage done by the faulty phone batterys and they are 30g not 60kg.
Trucks & other vehicles with a full chassis have a very protected place between the chassis rails where batterys would be safe from mechanical damage.
Can't remember right now but I rather think it is Amstredam that has a fleet of conventional battery powered trucks that make all of the deliveries to the CBD from warehouses built around the boundries of the city. It was one of the pie in the sky ideas for relieving congestion in the Sydney CBD put forward for public comment in order to justify spending lots of ratepayers money on a European holiday ( sorry fact finding hard work ) for council officals & alderpersons.
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Patrick Lockyer.
Grand Master
Username: pat_lockyer

Post Number: 2190
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Monday, 07 October, 2019 - 05:26:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

If I had the view that everything new in the vehicle development over the years was a no go with development then I would have been left behind just repairing the garden engine machines.

Common sense and not being afraid of progress has given me and others a good exciting profitable life.

As for the fires in an electric vehicle, I would sooner be in a electric car after a frontal or rear end accident than a petrol/gas vehicle.
Lithium ion battery pack fires usually take longer to start and to spread than petrol/gas fires. If there is damage to a cell, it may begin to build up heat and ignite chemicals in other cells over time. This is called "thermal runaway".
time to get out of the vehicle.
A petrol /gas car when the high pressure petrol hose/ rail ruptures the fuel ignites a fire bomb results.
As for the take on the future of electric IMO it is here and will just grow with the progress and development of batteries etc.
Wow the Tesla S "3 plaid" motor configuration coming soon and much more.

Invest in solar and even a Tesla Powerwall.
Common sense with the generation pay back time with electric vehicles use local.
Free super charging with a Tesla for life, useful on the long trips.

The Shadow running for many years on LPG is also doing my bit for the future of the planet for the Grand Children!

Lead acid batteries are dead with regard to use with all vehicles, weight gassing and cell failures are just some of the causes.
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ross kowalski
Prolific User
Username: cdfpw

Post Number: 1252
Registered: 11-2015
Posted on Monday, 07 October, 2019 - 06:11:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

The famous quote I believe came from Henry Ford comes to mind. It goes something like this. If you'd have asked people in the 1800's living in a world of kooky unreliable gas motor cars and reliable, silent horse power with a mature support network what they needed for transportation they would have said faster horses.

It's kind of like that for electric cars now.

But time will tell. Steam made a strong case in the 00's and 10's but petrol needed less thinking so petrol it was.

There's the other thing as well. Electric cars have been around for the entire time there have been petrol cars and likely this will continue.

Electric cars don't have emissions so we use them indoors. Electric cars have massive amounts of torque and don't need gearboxes so giant earth movers and trains use electricity, it's silent and low maintenance so golf carts are electric.

Now and going forward it probably makes sense for most cars to be electric in the first world. If your country doesn't have money or an electrical infrastructure or vast areas have to be traversed then you will be driving diesels for a while, maybe forever. Will electric jets or container ships ever be economical probably not.

So I am making the safe bet that we will still have a mix of power options for vehicles just as we have now. Will electric vehicles occupy a larger percentage of the pie, sure.

Then there's Elon Musk....
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Trevor Hodgekinson
Experienced User
Username: wm20

Post Number: 82
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Monday, 07 October, 2019 - 09:30:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Patrick,
Yes i see your point.
All of the work vehicles have been LPG powered as well, but not the shadows.
As for lead acid being dead.
The problems with lead batteries are all caused by idiot marketing staff at vehicle factories.
Every year they demand that the battery becomes smaller & lighter to he point that the plate cross sections are so thin they are barely within the yield strength of lead., thus they fail mechanically.
The car companies just want them to be small, light , cheap and last till the warranty expires.
I have been using spiral cell batteries for 30 years since it was the only one an auto electrical had when the battery died in the lead car on a wedding.
Plates on spiral cell batteries do not fail mechanically because they are supported at both sides, not hanging cantilever style as in a flat plate battery.
The other thing that oft gets overlooked is that the lead acid battery is the only part of a motor vehicle that is economic to recycle and to that extent they are the most recycled item to the level of around 92%.
The only part that is not reused is the electrolyte.
Every other part goes back into making new batteries.
Lead is fairly noble so is easy to refine thus you can make battery plates from 100% recycled lead which is what Sims did for decades till Peko gutted the company.
When i was able to get Optima batteries wholesale I refitted dozens of golf carts with them and AFAIK they are all still running just fine.
The 30 year old optima from our first shadow is now used to start the 24V fork lift when it is not powering the walk behind for we use for an internal hoist .
Pressure valve regulated & AGm electrolyte they will last for decades just so long as they are not left for long periods at less the 50% charge. Because of the massive plate surface area they can charge very quickly.
The only problem is they are only made in one factory in Mexico so the prices are way higher than they should be.
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Trevor Hodgekinson
Experienced User
Username: wm20

Post Number: 83
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Monday, 07 October, 2019 - 09:42:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Ross,
Yes they have.
Every warehouse is chockers with electric fork lifts & tow motors.
And there is every reason to convert the delivery fleet to electric trucks where the purchase price is no deterrent to uptake.
But as for cars for Joe Average, we are talking decades before they can get to a price level that people can afford.
This is why countries like Denmark are forcing the issue.
Now in a country the size of greater Sydney and the population of Victoria it makes sense.
Current golf buggies would be fine for 99% of Danes if you put a full cabin on them.
As for not needing gearboxes, what would you call a multi wound electric motor ?
High speed electric motors & high torque electric motors are two different animals.
All of our forks had double wound motors and they only went up to 5 mph.
Copper is a lot more expensive than steel and there is a lot more steel on the planet than copper.
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ross kowalski
Prolific User
Username: cdfpw

Post Number: 1257
Registered: 11-2015
Posted on Wednesday, 09 October, 2019 - 12:28:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Trevor

I'd be surprised if any modern electric car was using dual windings, hell I'd be astounded if they used brushes.

Time will tell about when electric car adoption will spike ( bump up, whatever) but I will say within 5 years the # of economical Electron fueled cars for sale and purchased in the first world will be much higher than the current 1%.

I think some will be due to arm twisting as you mention, but a lot will be on the merits of electricity alone. Super car acceleration in something that looks like an iphone on wheels ( because as apple proves, people like i phones) for the price of a toyota camery with the reliability of a honda and gets 100 mpg. People will like that.
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Trevor Hodgekinson
Experienced User
Username: wm20

Post Number: 86
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Wednesday, 09 October, 2019 - 14:16:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I bust admit my electronic knowledge is way below my mechanical knowledge.
However the last time I was on a train, that trail either had a mutliwound motor or individual motors for low & high speed running as even with the air conditioning running you can still hear the switching.
The old house had 2 wind generators made from F&P washing machine motors.
And again this had the stator coils wound into 3 different circuits which switched according to the speed of the rotor.
This replace the old bought in one that either stalled out in low winds or had to free wheel during high winds so only worked about 1/4 of the time.
The F&P system supplied more than enough power to keep the 4 Optima batteries that were hand me downs from the rollers fully charged. Mind you we were not putting much load on the system, just a UPS for the computers and phones and all of the lighting which was 12V LEDs plus the fridge during black outs which in Springwood was almost a weekly event.
As for the I phone analogy ( which I rather like ) just remember that while Apple made a lot of money selling the over priced I phones, the Android phone makers are making a lot more money selling a cheaper phone.
And of course I can buy my I phone ( still using the 2nd hand 4s ) for less than 1 weeks average wage which can be hidden in a "free" phone plan, a Tesla will cost 12 years average wages during which time it will become obsolete and need at least 1 if not 2 changes of batteries.
Find me an electric 2 ton truck with around 200km range & I will buy ( lease ) 50 of them and be back in warehousing & distribution tomorrow offering a "green" carbon negative delivery service which I can sell at a premium price to thousands of customers. Particularly if I put solar on the warehouse roof ( reduces air conditioning costs ) to recharge the batteries
Even at Tesla prices they would pay for themselves in 5 years.

Make a reliable small truck & businesses will be kicking down your doors to get one. The demand is already there and has been for decades, but it is just not sexy enough and of course would be very profitable from day 1 but in most cases of new technology the measure of success is how may millions you can extort from government to do totally unproductive research.

Back in the 90's Renault developed a compressed air delivery vehicle for use in large cities & in particular Paris. When the secret project became public knowledge they had better than 1,000,000 orders and that was well before any of the 100 or so required high volume refilling stations had been built.
Ultimately it was a failure & a massive loss but it showed that the demand was there.
And since that time the demand has only gotten bigger.

And of course you can not get a better test bed than a commercial delivery fleet where everything is recorded thus you have reliable in service data that cost you nothing because fleet operators do this as a matter of course.

But Tesla does not want real figures, they prefer to use testimonial from cyber gurues and other such nobodies withot the technical ability to make a proper informed assesment.
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ross kowalski
Prolific User
Username: cdfpw

Post Number: 1258
Registered: 11-2015
Posted on Thursday, 10 October, 2019 - 12:59:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Trevor,

You just got me thinking. Milk floats.

Didn't Brittan have those in scads doing short haul heavy delivery ( i think because they were silent).

I learned about them because of Top Gear. I looked into it and it was a quite successful implementation of commercial electric.

Probably went away with the demise of fresh local milk but aparently a good solution and existing tech. Imagine how good they would have been with lipo battery packs.
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Patrick Ryan
Grand Master
Username: patrick_r

Post Number: 2162
Registered: 04-2016
Posted on Thursday, 10 October, 2019 - 15:24:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Just think how easy it will be when we run out of oil.
Back to the horse and cart and fresh local milk again

We wonít need to worry about batteries as we wonít be able to produce them without oil.
A new dark ages.
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Trevor Hodgekinson
Experienced User
Username: wm20

Post Number: 88
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Thursday, 10 October, 2019 - 23:51:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

No Idea The only 2 vehicle types I know about from the UK are Beesas & Rollers.
However I am old enough to remember the milko with a horse and the baker with a horse.
In fact we also had the rabbito & fisho who also used horse floats to do their rounds.
It always amazed me how the horses never stopped and they would be serving from the side of a constantly moving vehicle.
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David Gore
Moderator
Username: david_gore

Post Number: 3480
Registered: 04-2003
Posted on Friday, 11 October, 2019 - 08:13:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Patrick and Trevor,

You are probably not old enough to remember horse and cart deliveries otherwise you would also have had the responsibility for running out with a bucket and spade to pick up any horse droppings for the home vegetable garden.

I did especially when at my grandparent's home in Newcastle.
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Larry Kavanagh
Frequent User
Username: shadow_11

Post Number: 512
Registered: 05-2016
Posted on Friday, 11 October, 2019 - 10:43:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I've heard of people putting dung on their rhubarb but personally I prefer custard on mine.
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Trevor Hodgekinson
Experienced User
Username: wm20

Post Number: 89
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Friday, 11 October, 2019 - 14:07:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

No I remember them quite well.
The milk, bread & fish carts all had rubber tyres but the rabitto had waggon wheels with steel rims.
The fish cart had old wooden spoked thin tyre car wheels .
The others were std car wheel;s form the time.
And we had chooks, ducks & geese so no problems about finding manure
As for rhubarb I prefer zero on mine every time they poked their unwanted leaves out of the ground
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ross kowalski
Prolific User
Username: cdfpw

Post Number: 1260
Registered: 11-2015
Posted on Friday, 11 October, 2019 - 20:27:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Larry,

You like custard on dung?
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Larry Kavanagh
Frequent User
Username: shadow_11

Post Number: 514
Registered: 05-2016
Posted on Saturday, 12 October, 2019 - 00:43:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

No Ross, custard on rhubarb.
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David Gore
Moderator
Username: david_gore

Post Number: 3482
Registered: 04-2003
Posted on Saturday, 12 October, 2019 - 08:02:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Larry,

I prefer a premium vanilla ice cream on cooked rhubarb to custard.

An apple & rhubarb combination is also impossible to resist especially as a pie.
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Larry Kavanagh
Frequent User
Username: shadow_11

Post Number: 515
Registered: 05-2016
Posted on Saturday, 12 October, 2019 - 10:07:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

You are a man of good taste David. While I'm still off topic but getting away with it - what's your opinion on rhubarb & ginger jam? I haven't tasted that for many a year but still have fond memories.
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Trevor Hodgekinson
Experienced User
Username: wm20

Post Number: 90
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Saturday, 12 October, 2019 - 12:58:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

We wonít need to worry about batteries as we wonít be able to produce them without oil.
A new dark ages.


Actually there is nothing that we make from oil that can not be made from forest products.
There was a really interesting public lecture on it a year or so back
The crux of it was the waste produced from chips & pulping can be used to make a myriad of products .
The only problem is they are 2 to 3 times the price of the same product produced from oil so they are generally used as low grade mulch.

And as for rhubard,
The leaves make a really good insectacide that bio degrades quickly and only affects leaf chewing insects so is "bee safe".
In fact all insecticides other than DDT are bee safe because farmers never spray crops when they are flowering as it costs money & there is no point in spraying flowers but don't tell the beauracrats who have never done any science since they were 12 that.
That is about the only reason to justify growing it.
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Mike Thompson
Prolific User
Username: vroomrr

Post Number: 1029
Registered: 04-2019
Posted on Saturday, 12 October, 2019 - 14:31:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Thomas Edison used peanuts and soybeans to produce plastics. In 1942, he showcased a car with a lightweight plastic body made from soybeans. Ford made repeated journeys to the Tuskegee Institute to convince George Washington Carver to come to Dearborn and help him develop a synthetic rubber to help compensate wartime rubber shortages.
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David Gore
Moderator
Username: david_gore

Post Number: 3484
Registered: 04-2003
Posted on Saturday, 12 October, 2019 - 18:00:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Trevor,

The toxic component in Rhubarb leaves has always been identified as oxalic acid and related salts over the years however this is subject to dispute as detailed in the following link:

https://www.compoundchem.com/2015/04/16/rhubarb/

I have eaten raw rhubarb stalks too many times to remember as a child and teenager but haven't done so as an adult as I didn't grow rhubarb in a home garden whereas my father was an avid gardener who kept our family and everyone else in our street with fresh fruit and vegetables in a time when families lived on quarter acre blocks with fruit trees, vegetable gardens and chook [poultry] pens.

Funny this topic should arise now as fresh rhubarb bunches are appearing in our green grocer shops and I had been considering making some old-fashioned rhubarb and apple pies.

Larry,

Rhubarb and Ginger jam - "she who must be obeyed" is salivating at the mere mention of this delicacy from her childhood on her parent's farm and extracted a recipe from her encyclopedic collection of recipes which I have metricated for you:

Rhubarb & Ginger Jam

1kg rhubarb, washed and chopped into 2cm pieces
850gm sugar
50ml of water
juice and zest of 1 lemon
6cm piece of ginger, finely chopped

Place rhubarb in a large, heavy-bottomed pot and add the sugar, water, ginger, lemon zest and lemon juice.

Mix all the ingredients well and place over a high heat. Allow the mixture to come to a boil and then reduce to a low heat and simmer for approximately one and a half hours or until set, stirring frequently.

To check if the jam is set, place jam on a cold teaspoon, leave it for a couple of minutes and then gently push it with your finger. If the jam wrinkles, it is set. If not, continue to cook over a low heat until the setting point is achieved.

Once set, ladle the hot jam into warm, sterilised jars, leaving about 1cm of space at the top of each jar. Secure lids tightly and place the jars in a large pot. Cover with water and boil for 15 minutes.

This recipe makes about three jars of jam, which will keep for up to 12 months stored in a cool, dark cupboard. She used to melt paraffin wax and use it to seal the recycled jars before fitting the lids.
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Trevor Hodgekinson
Experienced User
Username: wm20

Post Number: 91
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Saturday, 12 October, 2019 - 21:13:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Thanks for that David.
The belly will pass on being fed rhubarb but the mind has feasted on the article.
We were on 1/3 acre and when grandfather retired he passed the mortgage on to my parents who could not afford to pay it so he got the guilts and put the whole back yard to horticulture.
I used to take barrow loads of food to a friends place who had a fuel stove and took home jams & pickles.
Most people in the street had veggie gardens of some sort and we used to be always swapping between each other.
About the only fruit I can remember always being bought in was bannanas & pineapples.
Unfortunately grandad had false teeth & smoked a pipe so nothing got picked till it had "fully grown". The vegies being naturally tough & stringy got boiled to death.
The rhubarb was grown in a tube made from a 5 gallon drum , then that got replaced with a 13 gallon one so the stalks were 2" wide & 4 foot long and these stems were bitter enough to make you cry if eaten raw..
This probably explains my liking for berries of all sorts, Mulberries, loganberries , blackberries, raseberries, boision berries and 3 kinds of gooseberries were all grown and of course berries just get sweeter & jucier the older they get.
I never knew a zuccini less than 2' could be eaten till after I left home & started eating with migrant co-workers.
Being semi- retired I have now gotten back into the garden & just this day planted the Cape Gooseberry seeds. I tried Chinese Gooseberries ( now called Kiwi Fruit ) but they consisantly failed as did the Persimmon trees but the next persimmon will be grown in a pot, another fruit from my youth that just gets better as it gets older.
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ross kowalski
Prolific User
Username: cdfpw

Post Number: 1264
Registered: 11-2015
Posted on Saturday, 12 October, 2019 - 21:19:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

However Rhubarb ever became a food I cannot imagine. Though I suspect I have never had the dish properly prepared.

Caveman 1: "Don't eat the leaves on that, they're poison, Ed ate some last week and you know how that turned out"

Caveman 2: "I'll try the stalk"
Caveman 2: " munch, munch, munch"
Caveman 2: " OMG I think that's poison too"

Four hours later...

Caveman 1: " It's not poison, just so bitter you wish you were dead" ...

Caveman 1: "We could add handfulls of sugar to it and make pies??"

Caveman 2: "I'd be like to make a motion that we treat Rhubarb as a weed and eat carrots"

Dinosaur eats caveman 2.

Caveman 1: "Roberts rules will not allow you to make motions in absentia so the motion is tabled,. Rhubarb pies for everyone. Get your largest goat skin sacks for the sugar"
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Patrick Ryan
Grand Master
Username: patrick_r

Post Number: 2163
Registered: 04-2016
Posted on Sunday, 13 October, 2019 - 06:53:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Iíve never had rhubarb at all in any way shape or form.
Seems I am missing out.
Well, until I read Rossiís post.
Why would you add so much sugar to something to make it edible?

I was born in 63, so I donít remember any horse drawn vehicles in town, or in the suburb we lived at all.

But my older siblings have sure told me a few good stories of those days, but not the collecting of horse dung for the gardens.
We did have about a dozen chicken though, right up to the late 70ís.

Like David, I am an ice cream guy, have it on/with anything.
The rest of my entire family are custard eaters.

Without oil, we might not go straight back to the dark ages, but I do feel for sure it will quickly head in that direction.
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David Gore
Moderator
Username: david_gore

Post Number: 3485
Registered: 04-2003
Posted on Sunday, 13 October, 2019 - 08:05:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

"Bitter" rhubarb has been picked too late for eating raw as a delicacy and is only suitable for cooking hence the need to add sugar. I only ate new growth stalks raw and these were usually no more than 3-5 days old. Plus my father used to use rich well-drained soil with periodic watering with diluted liquid cow manure that was at least a month old - he had an old bowl from a wood-fired laundry copper and the fresh manure went into the brew to allow the natural bacteria to break it down reducing the ability of the mixture to "burn" the plants when it was applied. It was always diluted with water as well to reduce burning.

Patrick, you will often find commercial Apple and Rhubarb pies in supermarket freezer cabinets [Sara Lee and Nana pies come to mind] but the pastry they use is nothing like home-made pie pastry using a traditional recipe. My partner's pie pastry recipe is more securely kept than the recipes for Coca Cola/Kentucky Fried Chicken!!

All jams contain sugar to varying degrees and this is hidden in small print on the label. Seriously, if you have the opportunity to try a homemade apple and rhubarb pie from a cook who lived on a farm, do not and I mean DO NOT walk away from the opportunity - have it with custard, ice cream or freshly whipped cream and enjoy.

I think SWMBO's recipe is similar to this one from Margaret Fulton [a renowned Australian cook]:

Rich shortcrust pastry

Margaret Fulton [Encyclopedia of Food and Cookery]

This pastry is crisper and more moisture-proof than plain shortcrust. Use it for fruit tarts, quiches and other pies and tarts with rich fillings. It is also ideal to use when making individual savoury or fruit tartlets or barquettes.

INGREDIENTS
225g plain flour
pinch salt
1/4 teaspoon baking powder
125g butter, chilled and diced
1 egg yolk
2 teaspoons iced water
squeeze lemon juice

METHOD

Sift flour, baking powder and salt into a large bowl. Add diced butter and stir round with a knife until pieces are coated with flour. Rub butter into flour between thumbs and fingertips, lifting hands above bowl to aerate mixture, until it resembles coarse breadcrumbs. Shake bowl so that any large lumps come to the surface and rub them in.

Mix water, egg yolk and lemon juice. Add 2 tablespoons liquid to flour mixture and stir in quickly with a round-ended knife. When dough starts to cling together, use fingers of one hand to gather it into a ball. Sprinkle in more liquid only if necessary to dampen any remaining dry mixture in bowl and use ball of dough to gather it up. Dough should leave bowl clean.

Place pastry on a lightly floured surface and knead lightly by turning and pressing with floured heel of hand until smooth. Wrap in plastic wrap and chill for 30 minutes.

Place dough on lightly floured surface and shape with fingers into a round or other shape as required. Lightly flour rolling pin and roll out, lifting and turning dough frequently and lightly flouring work surface as needed to prevent sticking. Chill again after shaping, before baking.

Unless otherwise indicated in recipe, bake unsweetened rich shortcrust pastry in a preheated hot oven, and sweetened pastry in a preheated hot oven.

VARIATION
Sweet rich shortcrust pastry: Follow recipe above, beating 2 teaspoons caster sugar with egg and water before mixing with dry ingredients.

ENJOY........
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Larry Kavanagh
Frequent User
Username: shadow_11

Post Number: 516
Registered: 05-2016
Posted on Sunday, 13 October, 2019 - 08:46:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Thanks for the recipes David, I'll pass them on to SWMBO.
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Patrick Ryan
Grand Master
Username: patrick_r

Post Number: 2164
Registered: 04-2016
Posted on Sunday, 13 October, 2019 - 10:08:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Thanks David.

I showed this to my wife.

She said she will give it a go, with help from her 85 year old mum.
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David Gore
Moderator
Username: david_gore

Post Number: 3486
Registered: 04-2003
Posted on Sunday, 13 October, 2019 - 10:36:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Patrick and Larry,

Please do not blame me for the resulting addiction.

Patrick, your mother-in-law will be in heaven reliving her past with a food item that has been lost for too long. Ask her if she has her own recipe for the Apple and Rhubarb filling with added Cinnamon if you like Cinnamon.

Offer to be the official taste tester for the apple and rhubarb filling; if they don't have a recipe, there is certain to be one in the CWA Cookery Book. My copy from the 1970's is in Sydney and not here on the Mid-North Coast but it is still available from Dymocks and on-line:

https://www.dymocks.com.au/book/the-cwa-cookery-book-and-household-hints-54th-edition-by-country-womens-association-9780207180712

Otherwise, let me know and I will send you the recipe when I am back late next week. Below is a link to get you started:

https://www.womensweeklyfood.com.au/recipes/old-fashioned-apple-and-rhubarb-pie-8633

.
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Patrick Ryan
Grand Master
Username: patrick_r

Post Number: 2165
Registered: 04-2016
Posted on Sunday, 13 October, 2019 - 17:22:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Thanks for the offer David.

My mother in law will be here for the next three days to stay with my wife while Iím traveling with work.

I will update you during the week, or when I return Wednesday night.

Iím all for being a taste tester
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Patrick Lockyer.
Grand Master
Username: pat_lockyer

Post Number: 2193
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Sunday, 13 October, 2019 - 20:06:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

And for something different to custard with the rhubarb, try Baileys Irish cream and ice cream.
Needles to say we make our own Baileys with an old recipe from years ago! yummy.
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Patrick Ryan
Grand Master
Username: patrick_r

Post Number: 2166
Registered: 04-2016
Posted on Sunday, 13 October, 2019 - 20:08:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

You mean like ice cream with your Baileys as a topping Pat?
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Patrick Lockyer.
Grand Master
Username: pat_lockyer

Post Number: 2194
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Sunday, 13 October, 2019 - 20:22:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Patrick, I just love the Baileys with the ice cream as the topping.
The whisky strength can be stronger or weaker when added to the recipe when making it.
BTW the mixture can be bottled and used as needed for some time due to the alcohol content.
However with coffee at 11.00 am every day with the baileys a bottle is soon emptied.
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Patrick Ryan
Grand Master
Username: patrick_r

Post Number: 2167
Registered: 04-2016
Posted on Monday, 14 October, 2019 - 03:34:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Pat,
Iím currently traveling with work.

Once Iím back home, I will be giving this a go for sure.
Sounds awesome, and yes, Iím pretty sure a bottle will not go to far
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David Gore
Moderator
Username: david_gore

Post Number: 3489
Registered: 04-2003
Posted on Monday, 14 October, 2019 - 08:07:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Patrick,

You are leading me astray with evil intent .

As soon as I read your post, I could taste the icecream/Baileys combination.

"Nectar of the Gods" for sure........

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Patrick Ryan
Grand Master
Username: patrick_r

Post Number: 2169
Registered: 04-2016
Posted on Monday, 14 October, 2019 - 16:40:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Well David,
Iím pretty sure you donít need much leading

?? I wonder if the hotel Iím staying at here in Melbourne will do it for me ??
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David Gore
Moderator
Username: david_gore

Post Number: 3490
Registered: 04-2003
Posted on Monday, 14 October, 2019 - 19:54:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Patrick,

"?? I wonder if the hotel Iím staying at here in Melbourne will do it for me ??"

If not, I would be looking for another hotel with better standards of customer service. This request should be a "no brainer" IMHO
.
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Patrick Lockyer.
Grand Master
Username: pat_lockyer

Post Number: 2195
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Monday, 14 October, 2019 - 19:55:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Patrick, if they do it for you then the homemade baileys recipe is a must.

3 eggs.
1 small tin condensed milk.
2 dessertspoons camp coffee.
1 teaspoon vanilla essence.
1 cup of whisky.
10 fl.oz. single cream.

put all ingredients in liquidizer then bottle.

Any feedback on how it turns out would be good as the climate[temp] may have a bearing on the end product.
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Patrick Ryan
Grand Master
Username: patrick_r

Post Number: 2171
Registered: 04-2016
Posted on Tuesday, 15 October, 2019 - 07:27:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Patrick,

A couple of things.

What is camp coffee?
A liquidiser, do you mean a blender?

Sorry mate.

David,
Great hotel I always stay at on this side of Melbourne, but would you believe, they donít have ice cream on there dessert menu, only sorbet.
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David Gore
Moderator
Username: david_gore

Post Number: 3492
Registered: 04-2003
Posted on Tuesday, 15 October, 2019 - 08:05:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Patrick[x2],

Looking forward to your future responses................
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Patrick Lockyer.
Grand Master
Username: pat_lockyer

Post Number: 2196
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Tuesday, 15 October, 2019 - 16:58:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Patrick, hope you have this in your part of the world.





Best I explain the terms of the machine with this from the search engine, but David will fill it in!

Blender is a synonym of liquidizer. Liquidizer is a synonym of blender.

As nouns the difference between blender and liquidizer is that blender is a machine outfitted with sharp blades, for mashing, crushing or liquefying food ingredients while liquidizer is (British) a machine to chop or puree food.
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David Gore
Moderator
Username: david_gore

Post Number: 3493
Registered: 04-2003
Posted on Tuesday, 15 October, 2019 - 18:33:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

An old favourite, Bushell's Coffee and Chicory Essence is still available from Australian supermarkets:

https://www.woolworths.com.au/shop/productdetails/33839/bushells-coffee-essence-sweet-chicory

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Patrick Ryan
Grand Master
Username: patrick_r

Post Number: 2176
Registered: 04-2016
Posted on Tuesday, 15 October, 2019 - 19:22:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Well now.

We are all on the same page.

And I canít wait to get home to try it out.
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Brian Crump
Experienced User
Username: brian_crump

Post Number: 183
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Friday, 18 October, 2019 - 16:17:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I am so sorry to tell you but Bushell's Coffee and Chicory is not a patch on the railway coffee that the ladies used to serve at Spencer Street Railway Station in Melbourne (Now the ugly and disgraceful and unfriendly Southern Cross Station.)

These ladies of the 1960s to late 1970s served their own potent brew of coffee and chicory all boiled up in a big urn and dispensed with plenty of milk and sugar.

One of them conceded her secret to me; we never empty the urn and we never wash it out - rather like the old idea of returning your same glass for a refill of draught ale.

The brew was mellow but with the kick of a mule and compensated for the lack of heating in the old red-rattlers. Those were the days when you could park at Spencer Street and take the train. Have we progressed? Perhaps not.

These days the best use for Bushell's Coffee and Chicory is as topping for icecream. Even then, it's not a patch on what the Rawleigh's Man would sell.
Hmm. I think my true age is showing.

Regards,
Brian
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David Gore
Moderator
Username: david_gore

Post Number: 3495
Registered: 04-2003
Posted on Friday, 18 October, 2019 - 19:43:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Brian,

In all states, the railway refreshment rooms served a potent brew of tea however, coffee was an alien form of refreshment in the late 1950's/early 1960's before air-conditioned express trains with buffet cars became more common and the night mail train passengers in NSW became their main customers.

I was always fascinated by the NSW country railway refreshment rooms in the days of steam when they could serve a full train of passengers with pies, sandwiches, cakes/biscuits and coffee/tea in the time it took to fill the engine tender with water [10 to 15 minutes at most].

Cups, saucers, plates and cutlery were spread out along the counter with big pots of tea, coffee, sugar and milk and the speed the staff could serve and collect payment had to be seen to be believed.

The staff were mainly older ladies who had worked during the war years when troop trains travelled the length of the East Coast moving men and materials for the war in the Pacific. The experience they had gained was reflected in their speed of serving.

You mentioned Rawleighs Coffee and Chicory, I will raise the stakes with the mention of two other Rawleigh products Sago pudding [have not seen this for decades and may not have been in Rawleigh's range] and Tapioca dessert [still available].
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Patrick Ryan
Grand Master
Username: patrick_r

Post Number: 2179
Registered: 04-2016
Posted on Friday, 18 October, 2019 - 19:43:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Thatís ok Brian.

We can all be old together.
Great memories by the sound of it.

Something good to drink and trains.
Doesnít get much better.
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Trevor Hodgekinson
Experienced User
Username: wm20

Post Number: 95
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Friday, 18 October, 2019 - 21:23:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Lemon Sago pudding.
A regular at this household.
Got to do something with all those lemons.
Looking forward to the first crop of Cape Gooseberries as mom used to make sago pudding with them as well.
Served with cream & brown sugar.
Much better than a rhubarb tart
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David Gore
Moderator
Username: david_gore

Post Number: 3496
Registered: 04-2003
Posted on Friday, 18 October, 2019 - 21:35:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Trevor,

Try Sago pudding with fresh passion fruit topping - ambrosia from the gods.

I am assuming you can get good fresh passion fruit in the USA and not the metallic-taste tinned product.

Different to rhubarb and apple pie but both are equally desirable in their own way.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passiflora_edulis

.
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Trevor Hodgekinson
Experienced User
Username: wm20

Post Number: 96
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Saturday, 19 October, 2019 - 20:04:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Tinned passion Fruit, whatever for ?
Three times the Ned Kelly has died so I am looking for a more hardy variety.
Passionia was the No 1 selling soft drink till WWII when the US troops brought in Coke.
That foul black brew spent more on advertising that the entire beverage ( beer & soft drinks ) combined so funny enough it is now the top selling drink and Coke in 5 different size / types of containers occupy the top 5 grocery items bought from supermarkets and has done so for decades.
I found it rather good for etching Stainless Steel prior to micrographs and a lot safer than Picral.
It is also handy for doing colour metallography of aluminium casting alloys but why any body would drink the stuff is beyond me.
Out of curosity was that a lemon sago pudding with a passionfruit topping or a passion fruit sago pudding with passionfruit topping or an unflavoured sago pudding with passionfruit topping ?
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David Gore
Moderator
Username: david_gore

Post Number: 3497
Registered: 04-2003
Posted on Saturday, 19 October, 2019 - 21:07:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

The answer to your last question is easy - they all will appeal, just a matter of individual preference.

The ingredient in Coke that etched stainless steel is Phosphoric Acid, I have forgotten the pH of Coke but it was low and probably changed over the years when the formula was mucked around.

Passiona changed for the worse and "spiders" with ice cream lost their flavour when Cottees sold out however Kirk's Pasito Original is a good replacement with Street's Blue Ribbon Ice Cream.

All you need to know about growing passionfruit is in the attached link - Ned Kelly has always been very sensitive to soil, sun and local environmental factors, Nellie Kelly as mentioned in the article is a better all-rounder for most locations:

https://www.bhg.com.au/passionfruit-vine-how-to-grow-passionfruit

http://www.nelliekelly.com.au/passionfruit.html

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