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ross kowalski
Grand Master
Username: cdfpw

Post Number: 1138
Registered: 11-2015
Posted on Monday, 10 June, 2019 - 06:20:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I was unstucking a friend's beetle engine this am.

The top end looked OK.



The rocking levers looked a little rough.



I fashioned a snowball of the material in the top end to plug the intake to keep dirt from entering the cylinders



Dirt in the jugs wasn't the problem, it was the golf ball sized orange turd

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Patrick Ryan
Grand Master
Username: patrick_r

Post Number: 2086
Registered: 04-2016
Posted on Monday, 10 June, 2019 - 09:28:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

OMG Ross.
Has your friend never heard of doing an oil change?
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ross kowalski
Grand Master
Username: cdfpw

Post Number: 1139
Registered: 11-2015
Posted on Monday, 10 June, 2019 - 09:56:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Patrick,

He got the engine for a project car and it was stuck when he got it, but some previous owner saved a ton ton by just topping off the oil rather than changing it. It looked like diesel oil.
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Patrick Ryan
Grand Master
Username: patrick_r

Post Number: 2087
Registered: 04-2016
Posted on Tuesday, 11 June, 2019 - 17:13:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Some people neglect the crap out of their cars & bikes and get away with it for years Ross.

I wouldnít be so lucky thatís for sure.
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Mike Thompson
Frequent User
Username: vroomrr

Post Number: 629
Registered: 04-2019
Posted on Wednesday, 12 June, 2019 - 11:02:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

My 1964 Chrysler Imperial is sitting in the garage not being sold because the last owner never changed the oil. Now there is no oil pressure because all the little ports are clogged with that same scale. I scraped about two cups full of scale out of one tappet cover. I need to fill it up with diesel and let it sit for some months to unglue the oil ports. Change your oil.
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Patrick Ryan
Grand Master
Username: patrick_r

Post Number: 2092
Registered: 04-2016
Posted on Wednesday, 12 June, 2019 - 20:09:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I think youíre going to need to fill her up with diesel right to the top of the rocker cover Mike.
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Mike Thompson
Frequent User
Username: vroomrr

Post Number: 637
Registered: 04-2019
Posted on Thursday, 13 June, 2019 - 04:05:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Patrick I think you are correct, that was my plan. There was some concern with the seals though.

I wonder how many gallons of diesel that might take in a 413 cu in engine.

Ross was this engine under water or something I can't imagine that much rust in the cylinders otherwise, unless the manifold was off and it filled with water. That engine will need to be boiled out at a machine shop and re built. And hone the cylinders. It might cost more than it is worth.
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Patrick Ryan
Grand Master
Username: patrick_r

Post Number: 2094
Registered: 04-2016
Posted on Thursday, 13 June, 2019 - 07:38:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Draino might work better on both of these Ross & Mike!
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David Gore
Moderator
Username: david_gore

Post Number: 3349
Registered: 04-2003
Posted on Thursday, 13 June, 2019 - 09:11:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Patrick,

A BIG NO to the Draino - it used to be and possibly still is predominantly Sodium Hydroxide which is an alkali and alkali has a predilection for attacking Aluminium and its alloys and generating Hydrogen in the process.

As we all know, the R-R V8 engine block is aluminium alloy.............................

As a teenager, I used to make my own hydrogen balloons using caustic soda and aluminium foil or chopped up drink cans to generate hydrogen for this purpose. I will not describe the equipment used to avoid possible misadventure/personal injury as the process is inherently dangerous.

In any event, releasing rubber balloons is not an environmentally compatible activity these days.

.
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Brian Vogel
Grand Master
Username: guyslp

Post Number: 2860
Registered: 06-2009
Posted on Thursday, 13 June, 2019 - 09:50:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Molasses is good for rust removal. I've never tested out how it may, or may not, work for degreasing.

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=molasses+soaking+rust+removal
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Mike Thompson
Frequent User
Username: vroomrr

Post Number: 641
Registered: 04-2019
Posted on Thursday, 13 June, 2019 - 11:33:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I think I will stick with diesel, and for rust I use white vinegar. It works great and is not sticky. I wanted to look at the oil screen filter, but I cannot get the oil pan off without raising the engine. So I got a long brush to stick through the drain hold to do as best I can to clean it. Plus I know the diesel works, because I put like a gallon in with the oil and black goo came out after I drain the oil.
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ross kowalski
Grand Master
Username: cdfpw

Post Number: 1146
Registered: 11-2015
Posted on Thursday, 13 June, 2019 - 12:44:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Patrick,

I once worked on one of these that was under water and had a rusted out oil pan if you can believe it.
That was a mess.

Mike,

My friend doesn't believe in chemical solutions to mechanical problems, he is going to pull it down and physically clean it He's also going to put new fit pistons and jugs on it as well as dual port heads and a cam.
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Graham Phillips
Frequent User
Username: playtime

Post Number: 126
Registered: 03-2019
Posted on Thursday, 13 June, 2019 - 15:59:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

G'day everyone,....


Just my 2c on cleaning the inside of an engine.

Found out quite a while back the Japanese were using a 50/50 mix of Kerosene and light oil to 'clean' the engine on the run.

I can say first hand it works.

You run the engine under load for about 50klms then drain the mix,.....

Don't touch the oil filter!

Put in another mix if needed and repeat,...

When you drain and its mostly clean then change the oil filter and fill with your normal oil.

The Kerro will eat away the carbon build up and will also free up the piston rings that tend to get stuck because of baked on carbon, you may get a slight increase in compression depending on how bad it was,....



Graham.
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Patrick Ryan
Grand Master
Username: patrick_r

Post Number: 2096
Registered: 04-2016
Posted on Thursday, 13 June, 2019 - 16:34:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

David,
As you said in another thread.
My tongue was firmly in cheek.

Iíve never even used draino in a drain.

I fix the problem, not band aid it.

A friend of mine has great results with molasses, but that has mainly been on cast iron, not aluminium.
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Mike Thompson
Frequent User
Username: vroomrr

Post Number: 645
Registered: 04-2019
Posted on Thursday, 13 June, 2019 - 16:53:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Money solves everything unless you don't have it.
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David Gore
Moderator
Username: david_gore

Post Number: 3350
Registered: 04-2003
Posted on Thursday, 13 June, 2019 - 18:33:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Patrick,

I had my suspicions your sense of humour was at work however I was obligated to prevent possible future repercussions if a future visitor saw the reference to "Draino [Drano in the USA]" and decided to use it with an irrepairable outcome.

Guess who the money-hungry "No win, no pay" compensation lawyers would start chasing?? The Forum Moderator is an easy target .

The molasses derusting method is widespread in the small engine and farm machinery preservation area as a consequence of its effectiveness.

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Patrick Ryan
Grand Master
Username: patrick_r

Post Number: 2097
Registered: 04-2016
Posted on Thursday, 13 June, 2019 - 22:37:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I agree David,
We have to be careful in this day and age, we gotta get it right.

No more coffee at Chullora Volvo for us mate.

Iím now at Group Truck Operations at Minto.
We have a good coffee shop around the corner though
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Brian Vogel
Grand Master
Username: guyslp

Post Number: 2861
Registered: 06-2009
Posted on Friday, 14 June, 2019 - 01:18:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

And not only is the molasses derusting (I'd say general decrud-ing, but it's particularly and spectacularly effective on rust) effective, it's dirt cheap, which is one of the reasons it became and remains so popular. It's not fast in the conventional sense, but most projects where it's used don't have speed of completion as their primary focus.

Seeing what a long soak in molasses is capable of producing from what starts out looking completely unrecoverable/destroyed is pretty amazing.

Since one has to clean very thoroughly no matter what chemical methods one may use as step one in the complete cleaning process, I'd rather be dealing with syrupy goo that's water soluble (though you ought to catch that water, as it's gonna be thoroughly contaminated) than some of the rust removal chemicals out there.

Brian, who actually doesn't like sticky, either, but given the choices . . .
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Jim Walters
Prolific User
Username: jim_walters

Post Number: 251
Registered: 01-2014
Posted on Friday, 14 June, 2019 - 03:43:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Some info I posted a couple days ago on another forum: CLR and vinegar are acids and can eat into the metal. Unlikely you will damage the valve if soaked in any of them for a short while but there is the chance. Molasses will not attack the metal. The molasses works best when it has had a chance to ferment. I did some heavy research into this several years ago and found that sodium gluconate, which is fermented sugar, works the best. It is a chelating agent, which means the solution attracts and absorbs iron oxide molecules. The molasses works the same way. There is a bit of chemistry I won't bother getting into, basically the rust dissolves out into the solution leaving bare metal free of rust. It is safe and non toxic, sodium gluconate is a common industrial food additive. I buy it in 50lb bags and have a large tank big enough to derust body panels in. Much easier for you to just buy some molasses in the local grocery. Molasses feed for cattle also works well and is much cheaper than buying it in human food form. As Al says there are a billion YouTube videos out there about using it.

SRH8505 SRC18015 SRE22493 NAC-05370
www.bristolmotors.com
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Brian Vogel
Grand Master
Username: guyslp

Post Number: 2862
Registered: 06-2009
Posted on Friday, 14 June, 2019 - 07:43:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Jim Walters: "CLR and vinegar are acids and can eat into the metal."

Indeed, and as a result are contraindicated for long-term soaking.

CLR/Lime-Away is, by far, my favorite brass connector cleaner. There is nothing like it for cleaning brass slide connectors. Dip, rinse, and air dry completely followed by a prompt coating of NoOxId, OxGard or similar electrically conductive grease. It works far more promptly, and completely, than even Caig Deoxit does (and I like and use that, too, when rinsing and drying are not really practical).

Brian, who has heard the howls of protest before, but years (decades, now) of field testing without incident is enough to assure me that the practice is virtually without risk
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Mike Thompson
Frequent User
Username: vroomrr

Post Number: 649
Registered: 04-2019
Posted on Sunday, 16 June, 2019 - 03:57:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Here is a video that shows which ones work fast.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9Vj59WUAdU
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Mike Thompson
Frequent User
Username: vroomrr

Post Number: 650
Registered: 04-2019
Posted on Sunday, 16 June, 2019 - 05:00:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Here is a kind of neat idea, ramp with jack. I have been thinking of an idea to lift a car with four placement points. Using a 18 ton bottle jack.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Stark-Drive-Up-Ramp-Low-Profile-Car-Lift-Service-Ramps-Auto-Truck-Trailer-Garage-Automotive-Hydraulic-Lift-Repair-Frame/275017861
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Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov
Grand Master
Username: soviet

Post Number: 1488
Registered: 02-2013
Posted on Thursday, 20 June, 2019 - 23:25:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I once decades ago was importing Ford Cleveland 351 engines from Manhattan New York to Perth. One engine arrived and after removing the tappet covers found the rocker arms so thick with muck that I could barely notice them. Lovely job cleaning that one up.
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Mike Thompson
Frequent User
Username: vroomrr

Post Number: 673
Registered: 04-2019
Posted on Friday, 21 June, 2019 - 14:55:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

When IBM first came out with the IBM PC it was not legal to sell to the Russians. Some years later the USA said certain computers could be sold (when they opened the stock market). I found the only place in the USA that would convert Rubles to Dollars. They would take Rubles and buy vodka and take it across to Finland and convert it to dollars. So I contacted some people in the stock market to tell them I would ship clone IBM PCs to Russia. I had some contacts and eventually the deals fell through. I waited for Castro to die to ship vintage car parts to Cuba but he out lived my interest. Then a guy in Nicaragua during the war years with USA wink wink who I was going to ship parts to after the war ended, disappeared (if you know anything about that time and region you know what that means). He was under cutting all the pop corn growers, selling to schools etc. and paid the ultimate price for it. So those businesses flopped.
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Mike Thompson
Frequent User
Username: vroomrr

Post Number: 694
Registered: 04-2019
Posted on Monday, 08 July, 2019 - 05:21:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Graham Phillips said "Found out quite a while back the Japanese were using a 50/50 mix of Kerosene and light oil to 'clean' the engine on the run."

So I wondered what is the difference between Kerosene and Diesel. Turns out Kerosene is lighter than Diesel, and some use it in place of Diesel in their vehicles. Good and bad things about that.

https://www.bellperformance.com/blog/kerosene-in-diesel-engine

You might remember I was going to try to get my oil pressure up on my 1964 Chrysler Imperial by hopefully dissolving the scale in my engine.

Well I put the oil pan back up onto the engine that I could not take out. I also could not therefore put a new oil pan gasket on. So I poured 5 gallons of diesel fuel into the engine and went away thinking in a month or two I would drain it and hopefully the oil pressure problem was taken care of. Went into the office to take a break and look at the internet. Came back out and a strong smell of diesel was in the air.

Now 5 gallons of fuel was in an engine that was leaking enough it was puddling and starting to run from under the car, with a drop light in the middle still on. Panic ! There is going to be a mushroom cloud where I used to live. Luckily Diesel takes a lot to make it burn.

So now I have to get as many oil pans to catch all the drips coming from the entire oil pan on the car as I have. I was hoping the next day most was in the pans. No but the smell was even worse. So I had to get under the car and use milk jugs and open the oil pan plug. And one by one fill them up opening the plug just enough to control the flow. With diesel dripping down my arms and sometime into my eyes. Needless to say now I need a plain B. (Probably one that will cost thousands of dollars.)
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Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov
Prolific User
Username: soviet

Post Number: 1496
Registered: 02-2013
Posted on Monday, 08 July, 2019 - 12:38:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Mike mate doing business with anybody in Russian Federation is a bad idea. Russia is a full blown gangster state. you could only go one step worse and attempt business with DPRK.

Russian mafias of which there are over two thousand different families control everything and they really are seriously evil and horrifically violent as well as having contacts internationally. These lot operated right through the entire existance of the Soviet Union and when that fell apart they rose in power and wealth to an insane level.

Sometimes I thought of opening a chain of English classes having taught English under a secret Russian identity provided by the Russian government at a huge school in Samara. You simply cant do any business in Russia without paying them and as an American you have a deadset target on your back.

A few years back a KGB officer on the Gold Coast was putting out his wheely bin in front of his mansion and two frogmen came out of the canal whacked him and then they vanished. I can guarantee you they will never be located.

The KGB now the FSB do not pay enough for even their top man to purchase a mansion on the Gold Coast - that was a case of a Russian business deal gone wrong.

A fellow with your level of intelligence and skills surely has the skills to find or invent an American item that could be sold in a less crazy criminal place than Russian Federation.
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Patrick Ryan
Grand Master
Username: patrick_r

Post Number: 2107
Registered: 04-2016
Posted on Monday, 08 July, 2019 - 12:50:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Mike,
You have persevered this far mate, keep going and just pour the diesel you catch back in the top.
Strain it of course through a stocking or something similar.

Iím keen to see if your method works.
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Mike Thompson
Frequent User
Username: vroomrr

Post Number: 697
Registered: 04-2019
Posted on Monday, 08 July, 2019 - 15:21:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Pat deep down I know all you want is to hear I made a mushroom cloud where my house used to be so you can google map my location to see the crater, so you can giggle.

Vlad not sure the CIA is/was any better than the KGB from all the things they did in Central America. I'm a bit too worried in these times to say what they did. I have come up with lots of things that would have made me a billionaire by now but I did not know how to go about marketing them. I worked for the Malta Consulate as a computer tech and as soon as the internet became available the Consular just had to have it. I came up with the idea of having Dictionary.com and use the software in the Franklin spellers to be able, as google does now, to spell words for you. But domain names were $600 USA a year (or 6 months) and I only made some $100 a week and could not figure out how yahoo was making so much money. Back then their search page was as clean as google's, but had one little banner at the top. Had I known that little banner was worth millions each year I would be very rich. A lack of a little knowledge has kept me from the finer things in life.
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Patrick Ryan
Grand Master
Username: patrick_r

Post Number: 2108
Registered: 04-2016
Posted on Monday, 08 July, 2019 - 21:42:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Mike
If I could, Iíd come drink beer with you and just watch the diesel dripping

The mushroom cloud would be a bonus

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