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Robert Noel Reddington
Grand Master
Username: bob_uk

Post Number: 1658
Registered: 5-2015
Posted on Saturday, 06 January, 2018 - 07:12 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I have been checking out gravity on the web and no matter how deep I go I can never get to the final understanding. However I strayed into the big bang and thought that maybe its gravity that made and drives the whole universe.
My brain hurts.
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John Kilkenny
Prolific User
Username: john_kilkenny

Post Number: 272
Registered: 6-2005
Posted on Saturday, 06 January, 2018 - 09:27 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Robert,
When you've given up on gravity, try magnetism.
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Jonas TRACHSEL
Prolific User
Username: jonas_trachsel

Post Number: 159
Registered: 2-2005
Posted on Saturday, 06 January, 2018 - 04:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Or try a swig of a good single malt, that will soothe your brain...
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Harry Heuchan
New User
Username: harry_heuchan

Post Number: 8
Registered: 4-2010
Posted on Saturday, 06 January, 2018 - 06:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Robert
This is not far from me. And yes, the local RROCA have been there.
http://gravitycentre.com.au/

A visit certainly helps explain the gravity 'mystery'. I know, it won't help you in Bournemouth. (Perhaps when you all come down under on that promised return visit you could include it in your itinerary.... And then there is the Square Kilometer Array... Now that is another story.
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Robert Noel Reddington
Grand Master
Username: bob_uk

Post Number: 1660
Registered: 5-2015
Posted on Saturday, 06 January, 2018 - 10:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I checked out magnets a bit and its like gravity and just as complicated, and its relation electricity.
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christopher carnley
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 109.148.48.197
Posted on Saturday, 06 January, 2018 - 07:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Its like a certain tumescence, the more you think about it the harder it gets.

(Message approved by david_gore)
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David Gore
Moderator
Username: david_gore

Post Number: 2805
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Sunday, 07 January, 2018 - 09:18 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Gravity as simple an explanation I can offer - it all depends on the mass of the objects involved and the distance between them. No matter how small or how great the distance between the objects; there is always a force no matter how small pulling them together which can be overcome by other forces present in the Universe. For example, rockets escape Earth's gravity by the force applied by hot gases ejected from the rocket engines. The Moon remains in orbit around the Earth by Centripetal Force created by the rotation speed of the Moon around the earth balancing out the gravitational attraction between the Earth and Moon.


Gravity


Magnetism is similar in concept with the mass attraction being replaced by electromagnetic force between two electrically charged objects with opposite dipoles; one being positive charged and one being negative charged. In this case, the like charged dipoles repel and the opposite charged dipoles attract. This characteristic is the basis for electric motors which convert electricity into rotary or linear motion.

.
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ross kowalski
Grand Master
Username: cdfpw

Post Number: 693
Registered: 11-2015
Posted on Sunday, 07 January, 2018 - 10:50 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Robert NR,

See this recent development in experimental physics. ???

Weird, but seeing the artifacts predicted by a 4th dimension on the atomic lattice in 2D is a step towards proof of a quantum / particle theory of gravity. A 4th dimension being a good way to account for the lack of observable gravity particles.

In my experience (full disclosure, decidedly Newtonian) magnets stick to iron and gravity pulls things together.
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Robert Noel Reddington
Grand Master
Username: bob_uk

Post Number: 1661
Registered: 5-2015
Posted on Monday, 08 January, 2018 - 01:29 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

The speed of gravity is the same as the speed of light.
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Patrick Lockyer.
Grand Master
Username: pat_lockyer

Post Number: 1715
Registered: 9-2004
Posted on Monday, 08 January, 2018 - 02:44 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

So what is the speed of gravity?
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Robert Noel Reddington
Grand Master
Username: bob_uk

Post Number: 1662
Registered: 5-2015
Posted on Monday, 08 January, 2018 - 04:00 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

It takes 8 minutes for light from the sun to reach earth.

If the sun disappeared earth will carry on orbiting for 8 minutes.

Light has photons and gravity has gravitons.

Does magnetism "move" at the speed of light.
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ross kowalski
Grand Master
Username: cdfpw

Post Number: 695
Registered: 11-2015
Posted on Monday, 08 January, 2018 - 04:32 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Robert NR,

First, this is all pretty wackadoo... but.

I would think with the gravitons earth would keep orbiting because the particles causing the observed attraction between the two bodies would last the 8min.

I would also think with the space time distortion deal the earth would also keep orbiting a bit with the sun blinking out of existance and the distortion returning to a predistored state at the speed of light taking some time.

This would seem to be difficult to set up experimentally.

I would think with gravitons being particles that the break from orbit would be clean when the sun blinked out and with the distortion it would be gradual. But then again particles kind of act as waves of probability (thanks Heisenberg) so who knows what would happen. (hint as to who would know...nature) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMDTcMD6pOw
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ross kowalski
Grand Master
Username: cdfpw

Post Number: 696
Registered: 11-2015
Posted on Monday, 08 January, 2018 - 04:41 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

FYI, Feynman was in Aukland in that video so he probably had Marmite on his toast for breakfast.
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ross kowalski
Grand Master
Username: cdfpw

Post Number: 697
Registered: 11-2015
Posted on Monday, 08 January, 2018 - 04:53 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Also,

I just saw this clip on the search for the Omega - particle. I'm going to pull a Fermat here. I don't really have time to write the comment on the last section of the video right now, but here's the link.

https://youtu.be/s0ldgqdnCkI?t=2132
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David Gore
Moderator
Username: david_gore

Post Number: 2809
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Monday, 08 January, 2018 - 07:04 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Patrick,

Gravity is continuous and, as such, if there is no way of turning it off and restarting; there is no way that I can see of measuring its "speed".

I will happily accept renunciation from anyone who is aware of experiments used for determining the "speed" of gravity.
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ross kowalski
Grand Master
Username: cdfpw

Post Number: 700
Registered: 11-2015
Posted on Monday, 08 January, 2018 - 09:55 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

David,

The LIGO work yielded a gravity speed as well as identifying "waves".

Unlike light and other EM "waves", gravity doesn't seem to care so much about going through things like suns and planets. I think they used the time difference between a measurment on one side of the planet and then again on the other to calculate the speed.

https://sciencealert.com/speed-of-gravitational-waves-and-light-same
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David Gore
Moderator
Username: david_gore

Post Number: 2810
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Monday, 08 January, 2018 - 06:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Ross,

You are spot on - with today's atomic clocks, it will be possible to use synchronised clocks on each side of the Earth to measure the wave speed.

Thank you - I had forgotten about LIGO and the outer space gravitational wave that was detected and measured with the results confirming another of Einstein's relativity predictions.
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Robert Noel Reddington
Grand Master
Username: bob_uk

Post Number: 1663
Registered: 5-2015
Posted on Monday, 08 January, 2018 - 10:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Einstein said nothing moves faster than the speed of light.
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Mark Luft
Prolific User
Username: bentleyman1993

Post Number: 159
Registered: 10-2016
Posted on Tuesday, 09 January, 2018 - 02:35 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

There is no gravity, the earth sucks.
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Robert Noel Reddington
Grand Master
Username: bob_uk

Post Number: 1664
Registered: 5-2015
Posted on Tuesday, 09 January, 2018 - 04:05 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

No the earth doesnt suck, pixies hold every thing down.

2 ships close together will try to drift towards each other.


has anybody got 2 supertankers I could borrow.
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Robert Noel Reddington
Grand Master
Username: bob_uk

Post Number: 1665
Registered: 5-2015
Posted on Thursday, 11 January, 2018 - 10:34 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Today I was playing with marbles thinking about gravity and I lost one of my marbles.
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Larry Kavanagh
Prolific User
Username: shadow_11

Post Number: 137
Registered: 5-2016
Posted on Thursday, 11 January, 2018 - 11:44 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

There's another reason why 2 ships close together are attracted towards each other, it applies to all boats whether made of metal, timber, plastic, concrete or whatever. When the 2 vessels are very close water displacement acts as though there is only 1 floating object and the water pressure from the outboard side of each vessel has a greater mass and pushes them together. That's my take on it anyway, I've used the theory in practice when towing other vessels that are tied alongside and if both rudders are not steering towards each other the vessels will continually bounce off each other.
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Robert Noel Reddington
Grand Master
Username: bob_uk

Post Number: 1666
Registered: 5-2015
Posted on Friday, 12 January, 2018 - 09:17 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Yes I have seen this. The hulls when moving through the water has to move aside and cannot fill the gap quick enough and a trough forms and the hulls side sideways into the trough. Then the drag of each hull interact with each other. I have probably missed loads out. hydrodynamics is a whole branch of engineering science.
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Robert Noel Reddington
Grand Master
Username: bob_uk

Post Number: 1667
Registered: 5-2015
Posted on Sunday, 14 January, 2018 - 07:03 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

does time move faster than the speed of light
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Patrick Ryan
Grand Master
Username: patrick_r

Post Number: 1825
Registered: 4-2016
Posted on Sunday, 14 January, 2018 - 07:25 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Check out the accident between the HMS Hawk & the RMS Olympic.

Probably the first time 2 large vessels experienced hydrodynamics.

Shortly after of course, there was the famous incident where the SS New York was dragged away from where she was tied up alongside another ship in the Southampton Deep Ocean Dock and nearly collided with the RMS Titanic as she was leaving for her Maiden Voyage.

This held her up for a bit over one hour while the tug Vulcan re claimed the New York and secured her.
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Robert Noel Reddington
Grand Master
Username: bob_uk

Post Number: 1668
Registered: 5-2015
Posted on Monday, 15 January, 2018 - 03:48 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

True, Its part of the titanic story.

Maybe gravity and time are the same thing.
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Jonas TRACHSEL
Prolific User
Username: jonas_trachsel

Post Number: 160
Registered: 2-2005
Posted on Monday, 15 January, 2018 - 04:29 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Two ships moving side-by-side form a venturi and will be drawn together. This is the same effect that modern racing cars use to increase the down force in an attempt to get more grip. The venturi under the race car pulls the car firmer to the road.

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