| Author | Message | ||
     Brian Vogel Grand Master Username: guyslp Post Number: 2148 Registered: 6-2009 |
Interesting article by the same title, Why the wealthy buy Rolls-Royce cars but won’t drive them in Washington, in the Washington Post. Brian | ||
| Patrick Ryan Grand Master Username: patrick_r Post Number: 752 Registered: 4-2016 |
Interesting read Brian. Need to get a driving job in DC I'm thinking. | ||
| Brian Vogel Grand Master Username: guyslp Post Number: 2149 Registered: 6-2009 |
Patrick, Having lived in metro DC for 12 years, from the middle of the go-go 80s through the late 90s, I can attest that all that was said in that article about "Rolls sightings" is true. It became very clear to me, a small town boy from the heart of the rust belt/coal country, that the region is (and continues to be) awash in money and was astounded at what one routinely saw as daily drivers. Rolls-Royce motorcars were never among that group. I think the main reason for that is that new ones just scream not only "look at me" but "I'm rolling in the money." Neither of these is the message you want to project in buttoned-down Washington, DC. For public appearances all things should be good, but not too good. Brian | ||
| Patrick Ryan Grand Master Username: patrick_r Post Number: 753 Registered: 4-2016 |
Understand what you are saying Brian. When my wife & I are driving around in our 25 Chev tourer, everyone wants to wave, take pics, talk to us and generally have a big smile on their faces. BUT When we go out in the Shadow it seems everyone is opposite and wants to hurt you. That is a bit over the top description, but there has been a couple of times we keep the windows up. Saying that, We have been in some down areas, and car loving folk don't care that it is a Rolls Royce, they just see it as a great car, and are more than happy to check it out and have a beer while chatting. Quite amazing really. | ||
| Brian Vogel Grand Master Username: guyslp Post Number: 2150 Registered: 6-2009 |
Patrick, I guess it really depends on where you live and where you're driving when it comes to an older Rolls-Royce or Bentley. I live in the Shenandoah Valley of Virginia and on my travels with SRH33576 I have received nothing but friendly smiles and waves. Part of that, though, may be about when and where I'm willing to drive the car, too, and that I'm seen pumping my own gas, etc. People seem fascinated by the car just because you don't see them often. I get all kinds of questions (including about "how much it's worth") all of which I answer honestly and to the best of my ability. There are so many gross misapprehensions about these cars, their value, and the list goes on that I don't avoid answering any questions (when I have the time, anyway). I could very well be talking to the next custodian for my car somewhere down the line. The fact that I don't treat the car like a precious object that no one can approach, look in, or *heaven forfend* touch probably doesn't hurt either. I've let random friends drive her, too. If someone I know well hasn't had an accident in years in all the cars I've known them to drive I don't think they're likely to do so in SRH33576 either. I'm trying to take the "fear factor" away. Brian | ||
| Patrick Ryan Grand Master Username: patrick_r Post Number: 754 Registered: 4-2016 |
Don't get me wrong Brian. Like you, our experiances are mainly positive as well. You correctly mention the fascination thing, this is spot on and people do love to chat about the car. I drive with my window down 90% of the time and have had some great chats at traffic lights. Just saying a few in some of the areas we have to pass through to get to my house, don't look appreciative of a 43 year old classic car that also happens to be a Rolls Royce. | ||
| Nick Adlam Frequent User Username: crewes_control Post Number: 78 Registered: 12-2015 |
It's a shame that the tall poppys exist- I call it the "knocker syndrome". I've copped the odd grump by one or two ferals in their monsters, but I'm glad to say that people's attitudes to my Shadow have been overwhelmingly positive. After driving boring cars all my life, I enjoy the buzz when chatting to admirers. All part of the RR experience. Guilty of treating the car as a precious object- I'm finally allowing my best mate to take the helm!. | ||
| Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov Grand Master Username: soviet Post Number: 650 Registered: 2-2013 |
Just an aside - which has an uglier front - a Camargue or a new million dollar Phantom? | ||
| Brian Vogel Grand Master Username: guyslp Post Number: 2152 Registered: 6-2009 |
Sorry Vlad, but it's the Camargue, and I'm no fan of the Goodwood Phantom but its face is perfectly fine as far as I'm concerned. As to the car, I agree with someone I knew in the RROC-US who nailed the Goodwood Phantom with a one-word description: vulgar. You might have me running back and forth to check and recheck if you put the Camargue and the new Bentley Mulsanne in that contest. Brian | ||
| Patrick Lockyer. Grand Master Username: pat_lockyer Post Number: 1061 Registered: 9-2004 |
The Phantom is a German tank looking at the car from the front. The Camargue is true Italian style for the period. A true beauty with class. | ||
| Geoff Wootton Grand Master Username: dounraey Post Number: 1511 Registered: 5-2012 |
I prefer the Camargue front. | ||
| Omar M. Shams Grand Master Username: omar Post Number: 945 Registered: 4-2009 |
give me both these cars any day. the Phantom looks striking and i love it. The Camargue has grown on me since Vlad worked his magic on me years ago. I have gone from hating them to actually looking at buying one.... One day i may trade one of my cars for a Camargue. Only thing stopping me from buying a modern Phantom right now is fear of maintenance. None of you lot have got your hands dirty on these cars yet so I would be on my own when the manure hits the fan. Best to keep waiting.... | ||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 2347 Registered: 4-2003 |
Omar, Be prepared for a long wait...... From my experience with my partner's MY09 VW Eos, the electronic gadgetry installed has to communicate with the mothership [VW Germany] by computer link each time the car is serviced to provide fault codes generated since the car was last serviced plus installation of any changes to the vehicle Electronic Management Systems programming in the intervening period. A bit difficult if you do not have access to the VW computer system. Access to the VW Service Bulletins is a necessity for anything other than routine servicing tasks given the complexity of the vehicle and the fact the car was designed for ease of robotic assembly and not for ease of servicing. The Bentley W12 engine manual reputedly states "to replace the spark plugs, remove engine from vehicle"!!!!!! | ||
| ross kowalski Prolific User Username: cdfpw Post Number: 215 Registered: 11-2015 |
Omar, Why not buy a w12 VW Phaeton first. When it needs an engine removal for plugs or goes into mystery limp mode for no reason, sell it and not feel bad about the $ or fix it yourself. To be fair, VW's managment computers allow you much deeper control than most. I bought a $80 VAG code reader that lets me set all sorts of things, from simple onboard testing, to re-calibrating the throttle body, to reading sensors real time. | ||
| Brian Vogel Grand Master Username: guyslp Post Number: 2153 Registered: 6-2009 |
Might I ask why we're talking about VW with regard to Rolls-Royce? I get the connection to Bentley, and the general points being made. Now, if it were BMW . . . Brian, who subscribes to the "'Twas ever thus," position when it comes to those stating that cars made after [insert date here] will be impossible to maintain. Somehow, people find a way. | ||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 2349 Registered: 4-2003 |
Brian, Who owns Bentley Motors????? I think you will find it is part of the VW Group...................... I rest my case m'lud. | ||
| Bob Reynolds Grand Master Username: bobreynolds Post Number: 437 Registered: 8-2012 |
We were talking about RR Phantoms (BMW). Not Bentleys. "Only thing stopping me from buying a modern Phantom right now is fear of maintenance. None of you lot have got your hands dirty on these cars yet so I would be on my own when the manure hits the fan. Best to keep waiting...." I assume that anybody who can afford to buy a new RR Phantom could also afford to get it serviced once a year. I assume the first few years would be free anyway. If you can't afford to get it serviced after that, just buy another one! | ||
| Geoff Wootton Grand Master Username: dounraey Post Number: 1513 Registered: 5-2012 |
Early Phantoms are now getting within reach price wise. There are two on Autotrader for 84K. You could probably negotiate that down to 75K. A couple more years and they will be 50K. I can't imagine how expensive these would be to maintain. Geoff | ||
| Brian Vogel Grand Master Username: guyslp Post Number: 2154 Registered: 6-2009 |
Geoff, Soon enough the old saw (which was absolutely true for a very long period of time), "The most expensive Rolls-Royce you can buy is a cheap Shadow," will be supplanted with, "The most expensive Rolls-Royce you can buy is a cheap Goodwood Phantom." The early Goodwood Phantoms are, as you've noted, now falling well within the price range of many who have the means to buy them, but probably not maintain them (at least at RR dealership rates). They'll end up suffering the same fate as most RRs "of a certain age at a certain time" do before getting "old enough to become of interest to RR collectors." Brian | ||
| Omar M. Shams Grand Master Username: omar Post Number: 946 Registered: 4-2009 |
Owning these Phanotms is seriously expensive. Just try to find a set of tyres at anything realistic and then lets talk....... I own several VW cars both ancient and modern and i know how they are tied to the mothership in Germany. If the Rolls-Royce is also connected in that way then the maintenance bills will be horrific. If I had to maintain any of my Bentleys or Rolls-Royces with the dealer (even once a year) then I would not be able to afford any of my existing cars. I would then only drive my VWs. | ||
| Jonas TRACHSEL Prolific User Username: jonas_trachsel Post Number: 106 Registered: 2-2005 |
Omar writes: Just try to find a set of tyres at anything realistic and then lets talk....... I thought you could not get new tyres on R-R Phantom wheels fitted at a tyre shop, even if tyres were available. You had to buy exchange wheels with new tyres from R-R..... Jonas | ||
| Omar M. Shams Grand Master Username: omar Post Number: 947 Registered: 4-2009 |
hahahaha Jonas - not quite mate. | ||
| Brian Vogel Grand Master Username: guyslp Post Number: 2155 Registered: 6-2009 |
Omar, Yes, I believe that I've heard in the past that the per-tire charge is in the 4-figure range, which is abso-freakin'-lutely ridiculous. Given that RR has, and still continues to, ship automobiles to some of the most far-flung and relatively "unconnected" areas of the world I doubt that they design such that connection to computers at Crewe is required for routine or even not-quite-routine-but-not-ECU-programming-related maintenance. But who knows for sure? Certainly not I! How you'd get tires that are as exotic as the ones used on the Phantom in those locales remains a bit of a mystery. Until having read this thread I would never have suspected a brand as common around the world as Volkswagen would arrange things such that long term maintenance of their cars is directly tied to at least occasional dealership-only service that relies on communicating over the internet to do it. Poor design and poor customer service if you ask me. If one's car malfunctions in some far-flung corner of West Bumf*$k Egypt it would be nice if the local mechanic at least had some vague chance at getting you back on the road. Brian | ||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 2350 Registered: 4-2003 |
Brian, Our Government authorities are currently reviewing the anti-competition problem where independent service centres cannot get access to the brand "mothership" for information needed to properly service modern vehicles. The independents had a big win recently when the market regulator changed the law to stop manufacturers refusing warranty on vehicles serviced by independents instead of franchised dealers during the warranty period. Now the problem of accessing technical information and service bulletins by independent service providers has arisen due to more owners preferring the lower costs involved. A recent major franchised dealer service on my partner's car was much less than I anticipated and I put this down to the franchised dealer having revised their workshop charges to meet competition from the independents after the change in consumer law. The highly computerised vehicle management systems included in most new cars require access to the manufacturer's computer system for diagnostic and service recording purposes plus facilitating upgrades/modifying the management systems. In the case of VW, it is now possible to obtain detailed service and maintenance records from a dealer for a second-hand vehicle and this is becoming better known by prospective used car purchasers especially for high cost top-of-range/rare vehicles. Internet access is now available in most countries and this facilitates vehicle servicing as up-to-date technical information and past service history is quickly accessible from the manufacturer. I am certain Rolls-Royce Motors and Bentley currently provide this service for their dealers however independents will most likely have to wait until government legislation prevents restrictive limitations on access to the manufacturer's computerised data bases by independent vehicle service centres. I have a vehicle diagnostic interface for my partner's car and the amount of information available from the vehicle management systems is amazing plus you can spend hours customising the accessory settings available in the vehicle to your preferences. | ||
| Brian Vogel Grand Master Username: guyslp Post Number: 2156 Registered: 6-2009 |
David, The issues you outline have been on my radar, but largely flying below that of the majority of the driving public (in the USA, anyway), for quite a while now. I had hoped the OBD-II standard would end up being almost universally adopted and extended such that the invariable addition of manufacturer specific codes would be, no pun intended, codified in some way that would allow standard access by all readers. That has not really come to pass, though the degree to which sharing of the core codes has spread worldwide is a heartening sign (and much of that was driven by legislation - not manufacturers). For all the complaining that goes on about government, and we all do it to one extent or another, as the world gets smaller and smaller and more and more computerized in all aspects, strong laws and conventions such as OBD-II are going to be essential and "open source" for lack of a better term. I would be willing to say that a very substantial portion of vehicles end up in places far from any licensed dealer and there still has to be a way to keep them operational. The idea of the manufacturers having the stranglehold on information necessary to basic maintenance is just untenable. We've also seen that when they try hold information tightly that it invariably escapes "into the wild" by one channel or another. I really don't imagine that the vast majority of copies of IETIS/ASSIST that one sees for sale all over the internet are legally licensed copies. I've also not heard of the manufacturers going after the people selling them, since most of what's available right now is for cars so long out of production that they're not the "bread and butter" of licensed dealers. Brian, who can't even understand a lot of the live data that one can get from a half-decent OBD-II reader | ||
| Christian S. Hansen Grand Master Username: enquiring_mind Post Number: 453 Registered: 4-2015 |
Computerization equals control. Remember the film "2001: A Space Oddessy" where the computer "HAL" locks the human out of the space craft? It is a harbinger of not good things to come when you have to rely on the mothership to allow your to maintain you vehicle. What happens when there is a computer glitch, the internet is hacked, the power is out, etc, etc? "They" and also "Big Brother" can turn off your car on any whim or pretext, just like they can do with your digital bank account or credit card. The Biblical "Mark of the Devil" has arrived. Sorry to be a bummer. | ||
| ross kowalski Prolific User Username: cdfpw Post Number: 218 Registered: 11-2015 |
David, Some states the USA we have "Right to repair" laws that requires companies to offer factory software to independent garages at a reasonable price. Not all states have this, but it really helps out the little guy in the states that do. Christian, Funny thing about the control deal. People sounded warnings about this in literature and cinema, but the truth is even stranger. Not only are people going to allow it, they are going to DEMAND it and, ... wait for it... PAY lots of money for it. Where are you what are you doing every second of the day? Ask your mobile. | ||
| ross kowalski Prolific User Username: cdfpw Post Number: 219 Registered: 11-2015 |
Here is an example of a VW / Phantom transmission repair training video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ac7G7xOG2Ag | ||
| Christian S. Hansen Grand Master Username: enquiring_mind Post Number: 454 Registered: 4-2015 |
Ross... Mobile connectivity. The Opiate of the masses. Selling their souls to the Devil. We have all witnessed exactly the same phenomenon. I was in long line at post office the other day...those holiday crowds getting in my way trying to ship business packages!...and EVERY person in line, including couples standing next to each other, had their noses BURIED in their mobile devices! What a business...to eventually have every person on the planet under your control...and like you say...voluntarily, no less!! . | ||
| Robert Noel Reddington Grand Master Username: bob_uk Post Number: 1223 Registered: 5-2015 |
In the UK the law is THAT ANYONE CAN SERVICE A CAR WITHOUT INVALIDATING THE MAKERS WARRANTEE. BUT. Any problems and the maker will say the car wasnt serviced according to schedule with varies from model and make to model and make. Electronics in cars is here to stay. However modern young car repairers are getting more savy about electronics and there are people that can go down to component level and solder in resistors etc. Our local electronics guy had a run in with Bosch over repairing ABS modules for BMW cars. I find mobiles suck socializing in person dry. I like to talk to strangers about stuff because it gives one a more balanced view. My view about Brexit got so balanced that I didnt vote. My wife does all the mobile phone stuff and she turns the phone off while having dinner for about an hour then from 9pm to 9am. Any thing bad can wait till tomorrow. My wife has a facebook page but the only ones allowed on it are family and friends. Its just family chatter and of no interest to anyone else. Recently there's been much talk about government access to emails etc. I dont care because to monitor some one requires a lot of resources so the spies are only going to check on accounts that are suspicious, not me. can you imagine reading email after email one would die of boredom, especially when written in text speak with lots of LOLs | ||
| Brian Vogel Grand Master Username: guyslp Post Number: 2157 Registered: 6-2009 |
I disagree that computerization, per se, equals control any more than lots of other things do. Cars have had ECUs for decades now, but most of these were not connected to "the mother ship" in any way nor did they need to be in order to maintain the car. My 1999 Jaguar was a multiplexed set of ECUs on wheels but with an OBD-II code reader I could do almost all the maintenance I'm capable of on my own. I didn't have ABS or SRS code reading capability but neither did I ever have issues with those two systems. There are pluses and minuses to anything, but I'll take wireless connectivity and easy auto-updating of firmware any day over having to go to a dealer to get that done (and I have never seen a wired update solution, or even a USB drive/SD Card solution made available to end users). With each and every technological evolution/revolution there are always declarations that it's the end of the world as we know it. Well, the truth has been, "Yes, in some ways it is, but in others it really isn't." Nothing is so constant as change. And, in light of that, this observation remains as true as whenever it was first uttered: Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose. Brian | ||
| Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov Grand Master Username: soviet Post Number: 651 Registered: 2-2013 |
Brian I say stuff change totally. My experience is that change appears to involve fleecement by the rich of the poor. The convenience that computerisation has brought us together on the internet is the something I enjoy yes but I have seen a huge frightening increase in the government whittling away civil liberties. I would trade computerisation of society for the chrome plating of a Shadow in an instant. I totally hate all surveillance cameras of the cities and I would give this ghastly phone tablet to the hammer if I could get hold of a 65 Buick Riviera. The world has gone straight down the gurler since the 1960s. Omar buy a black Phantom when their price really crashes and yank the W12 then put a Cadillac 500 in it with a turbo 400. Have wheels made that can be fitted with reasonable tyres and you will have a reliable Phantom. The time has come comrades to mount a revolution by retro modification !!! All power to us not the governments, manufacturers or the bankers or silicon valley geeks. Revolt now and croak the ECU !!!! | ||
| Omar M. Shams Grand Master Username: omar Post Number: 949 Registered: 4-2009 |
Dear Vlad, we just the rebel in you............ | ||
| Brian Vogel Grand Master Username: guyslp Post Number: 2158 Registered: 6-2009 |
Omar, "We just [insert verb here] the rebel in Vlad. . ." Now what is that verb? Brian, oh, this could get interesting! | ||
| Patrick Ryan Grand Master Username: patrick_r Post Number: 766 Registered: 4-2016 |
Gents Omar mentioned tyres. The Bugatti Veyron has tyres that are bonded to the rims. Due to its great speed, the rim and tyre are one. Apparently, these cost over $35,000.00 each corner. Burnouts in your Veyron Sir? | ||
| Omar M. Shams Grand Master Username: omar Post Number: 950 Registered: 4-2009 |
Dear Brian, I ashamedly typed slower than I was thinking. The verb was originally love although we can have a small play to see what else can make us giggle.... Dear Patrick, That has to be a real good reason not to buy one of these cars then. Imagine being custodian of one of these in 2216 when the rubber is all but crumbled - what would you do then??? Omar | ||
| Brian Vogel Grand Master Username: guyslp Post Number: 2160 Registered: 6-2009 |
Omar, Thank God you type slower than you think. If it were the reverse you'd be in very, very big trouble unless you type around 120-150 words per minute. We'd also have missed our fill in the blank giggles! As to conjecture on the Veyron tires, I have yet to see a car that someone wants to keep on the road that they haven't figured out a way to do so. Stupid boutique engineering can always be overcome by reason and ingenuity! Brian | ||
| Patrick Ryan Grand Master Username: patrick_r Post Number: 767 Registered: 4-2016 |
Dear Omar, I also read one full set of Veyron tyres are replaced (including rims) after a track day by the lucky owner. Its quite mind boggling. Brian, You are spot on, we will find a way somehow to get by, no matter how full on the tech is. We are an ingenious lot we are  | ||
| Christian S. Hansen Grand Master Username: enquiring_mind Post Number: 456 Registered: 4-2015 |
It is simply another ingenious way of telling you that you have too much money. | ||
| Patrick Ryan Grand Master Username: patrick_r Post Number: 769 Registered: 4-2016 |
I wish I needed to be told that sort of thing!! | ||
| Christian S. Hansen Grand Master Username: enquiring_mind Post Number: 457 Registered: 4-2015 |
Patrick... Do you happen to binge on cocaine? Cocaine is the other way of the Universe pointing out this "too much money" condition. I suspect that you have not been "alerted" because you do not qualify! In case my assessment is in error, I mean no disrespect, and maybe you could be a kind friend and send along a few stray millions in this direction and I will help with making them disappear. LOL P.S. Lest it be concluded that I am not a merry old soul, perhaps you will split the aforementioned excess funds and send some along to Vladimir. Even though he has not specifically authorized this generosity, I suspect that he will not express any dissatisfaction with any such arrangement. . | ||
| Patrick Ryan Grand Master Username: patrick_r Post Number: 771 Registered: 4-2016 |
Mate, We can only dream of those sort of things. Only the well to do areas here in Sydney binge on that stuff. I live in a rural area, where the only thing I can binge on is horse or cow poo! I think we could spend a few lazy million quite easily my friend. | ||
| John Beech Prolific User Username: jbeech Post Number: 155 Registered: 10-2016 |
I new acquaintance (Silver Shadow with a rigid brake line leak awaiting repair) also has a VW Phaeton W12 that is presently dead. He purchased it recently for something like USD$10-12k and before a week had gone by had problems. Took it to VW dealer and the engine and transmission are now out of car (he is not so very mechanically inclined). Anyway, they explained the subframe bushings were worn in a manner they had never seen and told him repair would be about $11,000. He balked and retrieved the car (it is still disassembled with engine on one pallet and tranny on another - all in storage now). He has subsequently purchased a replacement transmission (for $5200 direct from Germany). But now the VW-dealer tells him the repairs will be about $25,000, or much more than the car is worth. Moreover, I don't know if he even knows if he has all the nuts and bolts! Anyway, he's convinced the VW Phaeton will be valuable (I'm thinking there's a good reason they began putting the Audi V8 in the car) but he's becoming a friend (plus I long ago stopped offering my unsolicited 2¢ when it involves cars or women). Regarding cocaine, the friends I ran around with in the late 80s did that. Fortunately I refrained (I have a broad yellow racing stripe on my back) and am very glad of it because one very good friend (now deceased) basically ran his business up his nose (in little more than a year). His marriage to a childhood friend followed soon thereafter (no surprise, young women and loads of coke were involved) though she, by the grace of God, has since remarried a really good guy whom I count as a dear friend (and in fact, my partner in crime when I went to look at and purchase Tootsie). | ||
| Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov Grand Master Username: soviet Post Number: 656 Registered: 2-2013 |
Chaps I am worried and confused. Question: Is the W16 6.0 engine in the VW Phaeton the same engine that RR Phantom uses? | ||
| Patrick Lockyer. Grand Master Username: pat_lockyer Post Number: 1072 Registered: 9-2004 |
Don't know about the W16 but the W12 engine was BMW for the Phantom [2013] came from a 453-hp 6.75-liter V-12, derrived from a BMW 7 Series engine, with a ZF six-speed automatic transmision (also from the 7 Series | ||
| Brian Vogel Grand Master Username: guyslp Post Number: 2182 Registered: 6-2009 |
Unless I am mistaken, virtually nothing VW has ever touched a RR (as opposed to a Bentley). Virtually nothing BMW has ever touched a Bentley (as opposed to a RR) after the Arnage Green Label era, which was before the parting of the ways of RR and Bentley. Prior to that parting of the ways only BMW was in the picture. The BMW sourced 12-cylinder in the Silver Seraph is an absolute joy, even though I've only experienced said joy for about 1.5 hours several years ago. Brian | ||
| Brian Vogel Grand Master Username: guyslp Post Number: 2183 Registered: 6-2009 |
I figure that anyone who is a fan of the new era Rolls-Royce and Bentley cars will enjoy the two articles on this Automobile Magazine webpage. The un-muffled Rolls-Royce V12 that follows the VW W12 engine article will tickle the gearheads who love vrooom-vrooom!! Brian | ||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 2373 Registered: 4-2003 |
Brian, Whilst replacing a cracked exhaust manifold on DRH14434, I did the same thing after removing the front exhaust header. The high-compression non-emission specification V8 sounded very similar to the V12 in the video except for the addition of a sharp "crackle" on the over-run when the throttle was released. Near the end of the video, note the reflection on the floor from the flame exiting the exhaust manifolds. If you have a set of high-quality headphones, the true sound of the engine is revealed in all its glory. Absolute music to my ears . | ||
| Patrick Ryan Grand Master Username: patrick_r Post Number: 866 Registered: 4-2016 |
Gents, I know most of you here know this, but for the others who don't, some images may help. The VW group W engine is a totally different configuration to a V engine. As Brian correctly states never the twain shall meet with drivetrain tech between the two groups. W12  Here is an animation https://youtu.be/tjpRVs4vSPM V12  Here is an animation. https://youtu.be/92q07ayOHsw W engines are more suitable due to their compact size for sports weight configuration. The W designation is clear in the image due to angled and staggered bores to aim at one crankshaft. This video is extremely good and is worth the 17 minutes. https://youtu.be/_GVemj0ebMw I have stood next to a 8 Litre 1000 Hp W16 from a Veyron in the Veyron bunker at Autostadt in Wolfsburg. It is MASSIVE 4 turbos & very tall | ||
| Brian Vogel Grand Master Username: guyslp Post Number: 2185 Registered: 6-2009 |
Patrick, Thanks for that image of the W12 block. The engine is frequently described as, essentially, "two V6 engines stacked atop one another" and this image illustrates that description beautifully. Brian | ||
| Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov Grand Master Username: soviet Post Number: 662 Registered: 2-2013 |
That's jolly nasty of you Patrick I am going to tell Sir and he will will jolly baity. | ||
| Patrick Ryan Grand Master Username: patrick_r Post Number: 875 Registered: 4-2016 |
That's Ok Brian, Im the type that thinks a pic speaks a thousand words. Vlad, Ill accept my flogging gracefully Gents, The W12 animation is bad enough, the W16 is a nightmare. Imagine setting those tappets and doing a firing order sequence!!  Animation. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxAhPYR05V0 | ||
| Omar M. Shams Grand Master Username: omar Post Number: 988 Registered: 4-2009 |
Dear Vlad, Thant was off course a subtle introduction to the cult duo "Derek and Clive".....What a great pair of drunk comedians they were!! Peter Cooke and Dudley Moore were coarse but indeed funny. I have often tried to understand the difference between American humor and British Humour but could never work out why they are so different. Derek and Clive are very very British in their delivery of humour - but what do the Americans think of them? I dont know many who think any of it is remotely funny. Yet the British seem to enjoy the American equivalent which is "Cheech and Chong". I think they are all funny to be honest. Fascinating topic..... |
