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Robert Noel Reddington
Grand Master
Username: bob_uk

Post Number: 1111
Registered: 5-2015
Posted on Monday, 22 August, 2016 - 04:07:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I have just done my energy/money calculations for the first year on all electric except for gas cooker. the electric is about 50 more than gas over 1 year.
also my 3kw immersion heater failed. it cost 21.17 including loan of big spanner. took 30 mins to fit. it that had have been a gas boiler then it would have cost lots more because legally I cant touch the boiler and I would have to get a code guy in to fix. so the 50 extra would have been spent as well.

And also if the hot water fails the electric heating still works. Gas boiler failure means not water no heat

note because I live in a detached property I can actually work on the gas system BUT my insurers might have a different idea should it all go wrong plus its 'king dangerous. I only have DIY knowledge of domestic gas.
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Geoff Wootton
Grand Master
Username: dounraey

Post Number: 1360
Registered: 5-2012
Posted on Monday, 22 August, 2016 - 04:15:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Bob

What is your annual electric + gas bill. I want to compare it with my house. Mine was about $1440 (1099 gbp) last year.

Geoff
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David Gore
Moderator
Username: david_gore

Post Number: 2161
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Monday, 22 August, 2016 - 07:33:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Pity the UK doesn't get more sunshine - photo-voltaic with battery storage systems are rapidly reducing in price in Australia to the point it is possible to go off-line completely although most systems retain an on-line connection for off-peak battery charging in extended periods of heavy cloud cover. As the cost comes down and efficiency of solar panels improve, it will not be long before it will be possible to go off-line entirely and use solar power exclusively.

However, the main impediment to this would be the Government imposing an availability charge for electricity service similar to the charge already imposed on properties for water, sewer and drainage regardless of whether you use the services or not.

Never get between a government and the loss of revenue as a result of new technology. I see the same problem arising as electric cars become more popular and revenue from fossil fuel taxes starts to decline - charges based on distance travelled rather than fuel use are almost certain to be imposed.
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Geoff Wootton
Grand Master
Username: dounraey

Post Number: 1361
Registered: 5-2012
Posted on Monday, 22 August, 2016 - 08:11:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I was looking at relative worldwide energy prices and I was surprised at how much electricity costs in Australia. It kinda prompted my query to Bob_uk, to see if the figure quoted on the wiki page bore any resemblance to the real world.

It lists Australia as 15-22 US cents per kilowatt hour. This is comparable to the UK at 22 US cents. In world terms, both are quite expensive. The US range is 7-17, depending on which state you live in. Denmark, which has moved largely to renewables is one of the most expensive at 33.

Of course, Omar gets the lowest rate. 7-11 US cents for the UAE.

Geoff
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Robert Noel Reddington
Grand Master
Username: bob_uk

Post Number: 1112
Registered: 5-2015
Posted on Monday, 22 August, 2016 - 08:31:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

gas and electric with gas central heating 880
gas and electric all electric 930.

about the same as the USA.

petrol 1.10p per litre

solar not quite good enough for UK and I will check them out again in 5 years
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Omar M. Shams
Grand Master
Username: omar

Post Number: 767
Registered: 4-2009
Posted on Tuesday, 23 August, 2016 - 05:34:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Dear Geoff,
Indeed I am blessed to live in Dubai with such reasonable electricity costs.
I am building an electric car as one of my projects. It is a 1964 VW Samba van. I may put solar panels on the roof.
I will post a photo when its done.
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John Kilkenny
Prolific User
Username: john_kilkenny

Post Number: 245
Registered: 6-2005
Posted on Tuesday, 23 August, 2016 - 09:59:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Geoff,
As they say there are 'lies, damned lies and statistics'.
The Australian government allows companies to buy electricity or gas from producers and on-sell to retail customers.
This means there is strong price competition in the sector and large discounts available.
The current retail price for my electricity usage in Melbourne is 24.75 cents per kwH.
I then get a discount of 27% for Direct Debit Billing and 8% for buying both electricity and gas from the company.
Price is now 16.09 cents/ kwH or 12.5 cents US.

John
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Geoff Wootton
Grand Master
Username: dounraey

Post Number: 1365
Registered: 5-2012
Posted on Tuesday, 23 August, 2016 - 10:30:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I thought 15-22 US cents was way too high for Australia. I wonder how much of this is political. There's a video going round on social media at the moment urging the Australians to follow the UK's "lead" and spend heavily on solar power to "save the planet". The thing is, Australia only produces 1.5% of global CO2 anyway. So the max saving would likely be around 0.5%. Not really my idea of saving the planet. I just wonder if these figures are compiled to soften the blow of massively increased electricity costs if the Australian government gets coerced into adopting expensive solar energy. i.e. make it look like Australian energy was much more expensive than it really was. Or maybe I'm just a cynic.
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David Gore
Moderator
Username: david_gore

Post Number: 2168
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Tuesday, 23 August, 2016 - 13:40:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Geoff, Our problem is our governments sees energy supply as a lucrative source of revenue regardless of whether it is privately or publicly owned. All that is different is the way they "clip the ticket" and when.

The cost of energy in different countries is difficult to compare accurately due to tax imposition by governments and local authorities, private or government ownership of distribution systems and location of energy sources in relation to regions of greatest usage. It is my understanding the Scandinavian countries such as Denmark have high taxes on electricity and gas as a revenue raising measure so the actual cost is artificially high for this reason.

Here in NSW, the government is about to privatise the electricity distribution network and has recently imposed price increases to increase the price that will be paid by potential buyers of the system. There is no way I would bet with all that is near and dear to me that I will benefit financially from lower cost energy after the distribution network is privatised as both the cost of acquisition and the most likely next step of time-of-use charging in conjunction with the already privatised electricity generators will inevitably result in price increases. This will be just another classic iteration of "putting the fox in charge of the poultry shed" where the outcome is entirely predictable. The only deterrent will be the increase in installation of private energy generation facilities by home owners as the most recent analyses indicate a current break-even period of 10 years and lower battery costs in the future will reduce this period considerably. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I expect the service charge will be increased by an additional service availability charge to reimburse the private owners of the generation and distribution facilities for revenue lost by the installation of home power generation facilities.

My most recent power bills comprise a quarterly home service charge of $60 plus $0.2198 per KWH plus 10% GST [USD $46.63 plus $0.1598 per KWH plus 10%].

John Kilkenny's Victorian costs reflect the lower generating [but higher polluting] costs of their ageing brown coal power stations which have a limited life span and will have to be replaced by more efficient and less-polluting sources in the immediate future.
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alex peterson
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 1.129.97.8
Posted on Wednesday, 24 August, 2016 - 14:28:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I live south of Sydney NSW Australia (34*South) I have a 4.5kw rooftop photo voltaic system on my roof complementing the commercial power grid. The pv has averaged over 2 years production of 16kwh per day half this energy is used in my house the rest is exported to the grid.

Costs
Network connection - 85c /day
24c/ kwhr - allday rate
7c /kwhr - off peakrate
10c /kwhr feed in tariff paid to me for export to grid

Return on investment is 12% at current prices
Annual bill has halved with the P.V. system to $680 per annum.
I costed installing a battery they are not economical in my situation, however if energy tariffs or battery prices change......
....

(Message approved by david_gore)
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Patrick Lockyer.
Grand Master
Username: pat_lockyer

Post Number: 1036
Registered: 9-2004
Posted on Friday, 26 August, 2016 - 06:54:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Omar, you may find this guy in the States good for some parts, Jack is a clever chap in all thing electric, has done some Samba,s.

I run an all electric vehicle, when the sun shines the electric company pay me for the electric that I generate on my Solar Photovoltaic System.
Charge cheap rate off peak when the sun does not come out.


https://www.youtube.com/user/marionrickard
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StevenBrown
Frequent User
Username: stevenbrown

Post Number: 77
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Saturday, 27 August, 2016 - 05:53:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Both in house gas and electricity is fairly reasonable here. My house in Washington State, the area has two large hydro-electric dams on a large river. There its crazy inexpensive. My house in British Columbia is also inexpensive. Here too we have hydro-electric dams on our major rivers. Plus our electric grid is shared with the USA, both East and West coast. We send power down to California. Net result its fairly subsidized here by the USA. BC is also a large natural gas producer, so in this regard its like the middle east and oil. Heavily subsidized and government controlled. We pay a delivery fee on gas and a small wholesale price for the gas used.
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StevenBrown
Frequent User
Username: stevenbrown

Post Number: 78
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Sunday, 28 August, 2016 - 03:29:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Here is the average gas bill explained by the gas company for my area.

https://www.fortisbc.com/NaturalGas/Homes/Rates/Mainland/Pages/default.aspx

Very reasonable.

For electricity our provider has a graph comparing us (Vancouver) to the rest of North America. We are fairly low.

https://www.bchydro.com/accounts-billing/rates-energy-use/electricity-rates/residential-rates/rates-graphic.html

Here is my electricity costs in Washington State, the area is one of the lowest rates in the USA.

https://www.chelanpud.org/my-pud-services/rates-and-policies
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Omar M. Shams
Grand Master
Username: omar

Post Number: 771
Registered: 4-2009
Posted on Sunday, 28 August, 2016 - 04:59:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Thanks Patrick.
I would really like a "dos" and "don'ts" set of tips.
I would hate to fall into pitfalls that others have already been to just because i didn't ask.
All the stuff on the net does not show you an actual installation with where best to place components and how to use the space best
Thanks again.
Omar
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ross kowalski
Frequent User
Username: cdfpw

Post Number: 93
Registered: 11-2015
Posted on Sunday, 28 August, 2016 - 11:58:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Omar,

Do you have the transmission to electric motor adapter yet?
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Omar M. Shams
Grand Master
Username: omar

Post Number: 772
Registered: 4-2009
Posted on Sunday, 28 August, 2016 - 15:57:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Dear Ross,
not yet.
It is being shipped over from the USA as we speak.
Thanks
Omnar
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ross kowalski
Frequent User
Username: cdfpw

Post Number: 96
Registered: 11-2015
Posted on Monday, 29 August, 2016 - 09:41:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I was asking because I knew a guy who had one sitting in his barn. If you hadn't got one on order, I was going to see if he still had it around.

The one you ordered has instructions and a flywheel adapter so all for the best I suppose.
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Omar M. Shams
Grand Master
Username: omar

Post Number: 773
Registered: 4-2009
Posted on Tuesday, 30 August, 2016 - 03:33:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Dear Ross,
You are so kind.
my adapter arrived yesterday and yes it is designed to take the flywheel and clutch.
I have looked on ebay for months and had no luck. Now I wish I had asked on this forum!! When I asked about a MK IX Jag grill - i had no luck, so I didnt want to ask again for yet another non-RR/B part.
I am grateful for your support though.
Thanks
Omar