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Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov
Grand Master
Username: soviet

Post Number: 571
Registered: 2-2013
Posted on Saturday, 06 August, 2016 - 04:13:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hello Jet setters. I have just spotted a magnificent
Mercedes 600 Grosser with weird European plates in New York at Gullwing. Naturally, the dealer is asking a hideous price for the grand old car.

Sadly the air suspension looks totally shot and the car has a bizarre perhaps hilarious aura. It may have belonged to some eastern European dictator who lost the plot and fell drunkenly eyeball first on a silver fork.

Beverley Hills Car Club is interesting as their pricing pronouncements are far below Gullwings and both dealers have zero quarms about displaying some marvellous vehicles that give off that hyper patina that indicates the car has been stored for decades in a Guyanese salt swamp.

So my point is why? Why are there dealers attempting to sell unrigid basket landfill cars for high prices when most western economies look like sullen convicts stepping up to the gallows? All this puzzles me.
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Robert Noel Reddington
Grand Master
Username: bob_uk

Post Number: 1082
Registered: 5-2015
Posted on Saturday, 06 August, 2016 - 06:51:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I would like a Grosser apart from the name gross. Lots of room but hideously expensive to run.

Oh lord won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz.
All despots have one and I must make amends.

Black would be good with matching AK 47s in a boot rack.

Dealers try it on with cars like these because most often the car has been serviced badly over the years and new owner is going to be shocked at the cost to put it right. All the bits are expensive and most are grosser only so Mercedes Benz really price them high, also the car was meant for heads of state not us riff raff. Hence getting away with the high prices.

However the systems aren't electronic just pneumatic and hydraulic. So I suspose DIY is possible.

Top gear did a grosser versus corniche fhc comparison and the cars were about equal performance wise. But the Rolls looked so much better.
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Brian Vogel
Grand Master
Username: guyslp

Post Number: 2045
Registered: 6-2009
Posted on Sunday, 07 August, 2016 - 06:28:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

The curiousity was just killing me, so I went a searching at Gullwing Motors, which I generally avoid like the plague since its inventory is either:

1. "Where cars go to die" examples [most]

2. Absolute beauties

both of which are generally grossly overpriced.

This featured picture says it all on this particular car:

Sad Mercedes 600

And for those that can bear to view the entire thing, here's the listing for this poor, misbegotten 1972 Mercedes 600.

Brian
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Patrick Ryan
Grand Master
Username: patrick_r

Post Number: 397
Registered: 4-2016
Posted on Sunday, 07 August, 2016 - 06:52:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Wow.
After seeing YouTube videos on this model Merc.
It makes Silver Shadow repairs seem cheap.
If you get a chance check out YouTube regarding the hydraulic operation of the windows and seats for instance.
You could probably completely overhaul 2 SS brake systems for the cost of one door window mechanism overhaul. Just one window part was in the thousands$$$$

The dealers inventory is quite amazing.

As Brian said, some prices seem good others rediculous, but his inventory list is quite impressive.
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Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov
Grand Master
Username: soviet

Post Number: 573
Registered: 2-2013
Posted on Sunday, 07 August, 2016 - 09:35:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Indeed the Mercedes 600 is an impressive beast. I got to work on one and ride in it in the seventies at a MB dealership. It left an impression on me then and still impresses me now. My hunch is the dealer paid ten grand for it and that its worth perhaps twenty if it has not seen salt. If its seen salt and has massive corrosion like a lot of dealers plumb restoration bargains then its basically a car suitable only for parts breaking/wrecking unless you have more loot than Leno.

Even if it wasn't corroded its one of those cars that you would be best to park permanently in a garage and use as a drinking companion only and in a totally delirious state consider yourself Mao, Tito, Idi or Kim Il Jong or some other political worshipped thug.

Mercedes use a mind blowing array of special tools for repairs and our Germanic friends are specialists at asking crazy prices even for simplistic parts.

I would award the 600 with four out of five stars on the Restorers Golden Standard Scale of black hole expenditure leading directly to eternal financial ruin.

No doubt the salesman will kindly announce " all parts are available "
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Robert Noel Reddington
Grand Master
Username: bob_uk

Post Number: 1083
Registered: 5-2015
Posted on Monday, 08 August, 2016 - 02:24:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Gull wing want $56.5k which is way too much. I see it as a $15k car and even then I am being brave. The Grosser is one of those cars that will cost far far far more to fix than it's worth. it outdoes RR on the money pit side by a long way. Obviously the suspension has collapsed, otherwise the dealer would have shown the car with the car sitting better. The windows are open, it may mean they don't close. The front bumper is *pissed. Then there's the rest of the mechanics. 2 alternators and seven drive belts. Imagine the cost of doing the interior.
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Brian Vogel
Grand Master
Username: guyslp

Post Number: 2046
Registered: 6-2009
Posted on Monday, 08 August, 2016 - 02:38:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Bob,

Hence my comments (and Vladimir's in the Subject line) about the general pricing policy of Gullwing.

They'll occasionally have a bargain if, for whatever reason, they've decided to unload something (and you and they know that's what they're doing) but otherwise they live on some other planet as far as their asking prices generally go.

The 600 is one of those cars that is/was a marvel when it works as designed, but which has many design decisions that fall into the, "What on earth were they thinking?!!" category. It was basically, in many ways, concept car design put directly into production without much consideration of what that was going to mean. This seems, at least to me, to be entirely out of character for Mercedes-Benz and also something that appears to have taught them a lesson.

A 600 in this sort of condition is a prime candidate for some really ambitious DIY-er to strip of all of the unreliable and astronomically expensive to maintain systems and replace them with top-notch conventional replacements to create something that retains the demeanor of the original but that can be maintained on something less than a head-of-state's budget for the remainder of its life, which would probably be quite long were it revived in a form which can be maintained anywhere and with ease.

Were anyone to attempt to resurrect this car from the dead, whether by a restoration to original or a reworking to practically maintainable, the cost will be astronomical and the whole enterprise falls into either the "labor of love" or "this person's batshit crazy!!" category, depending on what you think about the undertaking.

Brian
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Omar M. Shams
Grand Master
Username: omar

Post Number: 743
Registered: 4-2009
Posted on Monday, 08 August, 2016 - 04:50:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

You guys are seeing this from an enthusiasts perspective. Stop for a minute and consider how much money you can make if you bought this car for $15k and stripped it for parts. You will be a zillionaire in no time.
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Brian Vogel
Grand Master
Username: guyslp

Post Number: 2047
Registered: 6-2009
Posted on Monday, 08 August, 2016 - 04:56:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Omar,

I have to say your "parts car proposition" is a "yes and no" situation.

If you can find storage for the car (usually long term) or its component parts if you immediately break it down, and can find a market for said parts there could be some money to be made, but also a lot to be spent.

I can't imagine the demand for Mercedes 600 parts is particularly strong. There are times when rarity can definitely work in your favor, and other times where it means stuff will sit and collect dust for a *long* time unless you're very lucky with buyers.

Brian
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Brian Vogel
Grand Master
Username: guyslp

Post Number: 2048
Registered: 6-2009
Posted on Monday, 08 August, 2016 - 06:02:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

For contrast, and although it's a SWB model:

http://www.ronsusser.com/inventory/listing/1972-mercedes-benz-w100-600-swb-fully-restored/

Also note the selling price for the condition that car was in.

Brian
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Robert Noel Reddington
Grand Master
Username: bob_uk

Post Number: 1084
Registered: 5-2015
Posted on Monday, 08 August, 2016 - 06:51:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I suspose the 600 can be fixed with spurious parts such as air bags and electric Windows from another car. But we run into the old originality problem.

with reading the whole posting but it appears that the White Grosser went for 64k making 56k for a dodgy black one way too much. Repair the Black one with spurious parts and it won't be worth the white one. Plus can the black one be put good for 8k, I doubt it. I suspect the grosser is a bodgers paradise for a skilled person like me.

If I wanted a Mercedes Benz limo I would get a W123 2.8 litre limo much more sensible and much much cheaper. Saw a nice one for 9k. Ex funeral.
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Jeff Cheng
Experienced User
Username: makeshift

Post Number: 12
Registered: 2-2016
Posted on Monday, 08 August, 2016 - 22:54:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Jay Leno did an interesting episode on his MB 600.
To put price into perspective, he mentioned that EACH window switch was $11k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LnHdWgLlFI
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Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov
Grand Master
Username: soviet

Post Number: 574
Registered: 2-2013
Posted on Tuesday, 09 August, 2016 - 12:18:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Yes Jeff I saw Leno's video. Off course only a total madman would pay $11,000 for a window switch even a hydraulic one and only a greedy madman would ask for such an amount. If Mercedes has these in stock then I would say they will still be gathering dust 100 years from now and justifiably so.
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Omar M. Shams
Grand Master
Username: omar

Post Number: 748
Registered: 4-2009
Posted on Tuesday, 09 August, 2016 - 15:32:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I am mad enough to contemplate a 600. I have looked at them several times but always stopped myself before losing the children's university education money.
I have my eye on a rather special 600 LWB here in Dubai which may become mine in a few years time.
When I get it I will share the images with you guys.
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Patrick Ryan
Grand Master
Username: patrick_r

Post Number: 407
Registered: 4-2016
Posted on Tuesday, 09 August, 2016 - 15:44:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

if it is hydraulic, it can be rebuilt.

Cant wait to see those images Omar.
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Jeff Cheng
Experienced User
Username: makeshift

Post Number: 14
Registered: 2-2016
Posted on Tuesday, 09 August, 2016 - 16:37:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

For $11k, I'm pretty sure you could get a switch fabricated.
But then it wouldn't be 'all original'.
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Patrick Ryan
Grand Master
Username: patrick_r

Post Number: 408
Registered: 4-2016
Posted on Tuesday, 09 August, 2016 - 20:02:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Now that would be a full on judge wanting door cards removed for judging