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Robert Noel Reddington
Grand Master
Username: bob_uk

Post Number: 950
Registered: 5-2015
Posted on Thursday, 07 April, 2016 - 10:42:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Detailing is a relatively recent word for tidying a car up and may be face lifting the car a bit by fitting later parts.

My Jeep was starting to look a bit untidy even tatty.

When I got the jeep it had bull bars side rails light guards and spot lamps above the bumper. I removed the rubbish but kept the spots because they are Hella and original jeep equipment.

The jeep had two gold coach lines down the side and across the tail gate. Each front wing had the molar decal and a jeep decal and the decal limited SE. The rear wing both sides had 4x4 decal. The rear tail gate had the molar decal and jeep decal all in gold which had faded to a yellow.
These are now gone.
There are five plastic badges in black with silver letters. These are now all black. Jeep at the front and rear. Cherokee on each front wing and a badge that says high power.
The jeep is dark metallic green so the badges don't show out so much.
The wheels are aluminium alloy cross spoke design and shinny except one is dull. So the very thin rim edge has been polished up and the cross spoke bit painted gloss black.

The number plates were direct on the body and bumper so a stainless steel backing plates have been fitted.vjust to out line the plates.

The biggy is the clear coat. The clear coat has gone white and flakey. I have picked a lot off the bonnet which is now 95% base coat with no clear coat. I used an aerosol on a small bit and it looks like I will get away with it. It won't look as new but a good deal better than as is. The roof is a bit off as well. But it's high up and I should get away with just the sides which are separated by the roof bars. The window surrounds are Matt black to be change to gloss black.

The lights on the jeep are H4 and not very good. So the spot lamps are going to be refitted to under the bumper just inside the line of the over riders and aimed 50ft away to hit the kerb. The wiring is still present.

The rear bumper is scratched due to unloading stuff so a quick flick with jeep green will fix. Bearing in mind that it will get scratched again.

Front and back wiper arms gloss black.

The tow bar gloss black. Enamel best for this, not hard lacquers.

However I did think of doing all black stuff in jeep green not sure.

The whole idea of the above is to get rid of the unconnected uncoordinated look by toning the car down.

Wired the leather dash board binnacle has wrapped so I removed it to find the plastic base version of the dash under neath. The wood is simple glued on to the standard dash.
The binnacle is actually glass fibre. So I cut the fibre so that the flat bit lays flat. I shall glue in using body filler a flat strip of aluminium inside to keep it flat.

The steering is a Momo and the beige colour has worn away to patchy dark brown so using a beige aerosol of body paint I will give the leather a flick over. But can't find the correct colour. Important that it's just the bare minimum of paint because it has to flex slightly.

The above has cost 35 so far in paint.

The reason for doing this is that I wish to sell it and even if I don't sell its still worth. The value of the jeep before was 500 now it's 750.

If one looks at a Shadow it doesn't have lots of badges to announce what the car is or how big the engine. The jeep plastic badges are glued on not pinned so I did think of deleting all the badges. No law says I have to announce to the world that the jeep is a jeep and it is 4x4 and its fully loaded and it's got lots of power, according to jeep that is. I all ready know I don't care if an onlooker doesn't know its a jeep.

The jeep is not finished but all ready it looks so much better. It makes me want to keep the Jeep and use it.

I really want a Volvo est but as my wife said we don't do the miles to warrant the expensive and drama to change cars. The mpg is not an issue because of low miles and I ain't that short of the old spondolicks. Last week I used 10 of go go juice. 35 miles.

Or I would like a day van like the one I wired up the other week. VW T3 would be good. But as the wife again says,nI don't like camping and You (me ) are never going to be well enough or young enough. That's me told off. Then there was the discussion about building a motor bike and side car using a BMW 1000cc boxer.

It's cheap but time consuming, making a silk purse out of pigs ear. Mechanical apart from a spot of air in the rear brakes the jeep is spot on. The air is from a blown rusted out rear brake line replacement last week. The pipes have tight wound springs around them for stone guarding off road. But the damp gets in and the rust can't be seen until the fluid starts leaking. Dual line 3 channel abs with vacuum servo as per normal cars.

Next is my Shadow this will be done as Crewe intended. The cost is about the same because the paint cost the same but the time is even more time consuming. Some of the paint left over such as primers can be used on the Shadow. And the shop is only 400 yards down the road open on Sunday as well.
However for the Shadow proper spray gun for top coat.

I use a gravity fed gun. The paint is near to the nozzle so the path is short and therefore easier and quicker and less solvent used for cleaning. First coats standard thinners last two coats high quality thinners that are a bit slower to allow the paint to flow. Stop the flow with a heat gun if required. No parts have been removed from the jeep just masking tape. The Shadow parts will have to come off. The Jeep is just an old banger which has lots of plastic clips so best left alone. Try refitting a jeep bumper corner I broke the clips a small self taper underneath fix it which would be unceptable on a Rolls-Royce.
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David Gore
Moderator
Username: david_gore

Post Number: 1963
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Thursday, 07 April, 2016 - 17:23:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Bob,

If your vehicle regulations permit - have a long hard look at the recently released automotive LED light bars and auxiliary driving lamps as these are very effective and have high light output and long range illumination.

https://www.ledlightbarsaustralia.com/

Depending where you live in Australia, you can fit these to your vehicle for ordinary use or they may only used when you are off-road or you take the risk of using them on remote roads late at night when Constable Plod is safely tucked up in bed!!!

IMHO, the LED auxiliary lights are an essential safety item when driving on country roads especially where cattle, pigs and kangaroos are an ever-present hazard.
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Bob Reynolds
Grand Master
Username: bobreynolds

Post Number: 376
Registered: 8-2012
Posted on Thursday, 07 April, 2016 - 20:37:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Speaking of detailing - can anybody explain to me the modern craze of removing all the chrome from a car and painting over it with black paint?

There was a time around the 70s when chrome virtually disappeared from new cars, and was replaced by cheap-looking parts in black plastic. Much cheaper to produce of course. Because all of the car manufacturers were doing the same thing it didn't look particularly bad on a new car; but it did make earlier cars with their shiney expensive chrome stand out as a bit special.

Since then, chrome has gradually made a bit of a come-back. Although it is often chromed plastic, it still looks like chrome and shines like chrome.

If you visit a modern car forum you will see lots of messages like: 'Car looks great but get rid of the chrome' or: 'it needs de-chroming', etc. You can even buy 'de-chroming' kits to convert chrome parts to black.

I know it's all down to personal taste, and perhaps it's a generational thing, but how on Earth can so many people prefer dull black to shiney chrome? Even to the extent of rubbing down chromed parts and painting over them with black paint.

It's pure vandalism.
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Robert Noel Reddington
Grand Master
Username: bob_uk

Post Number: 953
Registered: 5-2015
Posted on Friday, 08 April, 2016 - 11:42:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Today I saw a Shadow 2 converted to a drift car on TV.

The car drifted as required with lots of tyre smoke and can I have a go please, looks like fun.

They painted the car Matt black. No bumpers riveted wheel arches, 8 inches of rubber. The rad shel, the light surround black, no chrome side trim. The inside is red and standard, apart for a monsterous gear lever because the TH 400 auto box has a manual valve chest fitted instead of the normal and a hydraulic valve which holds the rear brakes on while the fronts are off, like a very powerful hand brake.

The car looked like poo. They should left the car in Pewter with chrome and bumpers etc. Made the gear lever better and much smaller and I didn't get a good look a hydraulic brake lock off figment inside the car.

The main reason fir painting chrome is because it's about hundredth of the price of chrome. My rear bumper chrome is not too good. It's going to cost quite a bit to put right. But to paint costs DIY 10, any colour you like.

I like the chrome on My Shadow and especially the bumpers and over riders, which costs to replace with recon stuff
Approximately.
600 for rear centre section.
800 for the 4 bumper corners.
600 for 4 over riders
300 for front centre section

Or 2300 plus bolts and washers if required. Allow 20.



The owner may say it's fashion but only because it's cheap.

The body colour paint for the Jeep is not available unless a can is made up or the main agent at 20 for 250ml.
The colour I have is a shade lighter at 7.95 for 500 ml.

As an experiment I sprayed one of the door mirror case which is aluminium painted satin black very lightly and the the black has made the green a very good close match. As I looked now at the right angle the colour is slightly lighter but a causal glance and it's the same colour. Good oh.

Cock up the jeep has no time clock it has a compass the outside temp gauge though. So I got a small digital clock ( 6 ) with its own battery and tried to fit it to the mirror. The mirror fell off the windshield. After super glueing I decided to just use elastic bands instead. I think the original radio had a time function.

Hycote aerosol paint. This stuff is excellent. The clear coat is especially good and also does a good job on the wood work as well. For the shadow I have got a hycoat etch primer for the aluminium panels. I have a bit of paint bubble on the bit which curves to horizontal at the side windows on all 4 doors plus a small bit on both bonnet and boot lid. The steel panels are all good. Why I should get light aluminium corrosion and the steel is fine I haven't a clue. It's back to front, other people get rusty steel and good aluminium. I suspect that the blister line up with steel fixing bolts inside the door that hold the door stainless frames. Actually these are easy to fix with a care by gaffer taping the frame and using a Dremel type tool to get down to bright aluminium and like to give the area a good scrape with a screw driver to make sure any pits are clean, then etch primer then high build prime, then a hint of body filler to get dead level with the good paint. More high build over the repair. Then 4 coats of lush black. Then the good bit clear coat. Leave for 7 days. Light flatten with 800 wet. Slow mop with T cut and the job a good un.

Unfortunately it will have to wait till the weathers about 20c for a good job.

I used a heat gun on the jeep to stop the paint absorbing damp while wet, called blooming the paint goes dull and white streaks and cannot be polished out, waste of time and paint. Also standing can in boiling water works. This is not a good way to paint a Royce but ok for a banger.
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Bob Reynolds
Grand Master
Username: bobreynolds

Post Number: 378
Registered: 8-2012
Posted on Friday, 08 April, 2016 - 13:25:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Your bumper prices are a bit low. When you say 800 for the 4 corners, that's 800 EACH! It costs around 3900 for replacement bumpers from Flying spares. And these are second-hand rechromed, not new.

My Shadow 1 rear bumper corner was shot and I was horrified that this one small corner piece was going to cost me nearly 800.

I looked on ebay and found a place that manufactured new bumpers for classic cars in polished stainless steel. As you know, that is the same material as the RR grille is made out of. They did a front and rear bumper for the Shadow 1 for 900. Unfortunately they won't supply just one bumper, but two complete bumpers cost me about the same price as a rear corner would have done from FS!

These new bumpers are excellent quality, they look just like chrome and will never rust. They have a web site:

http://www.groupharrington.com/en/page/42/about-bumpers.html
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Robert Noel Reddington
Grand Master
Username: bob_uk

Post Number: 954
Registered: 5-2015
Posted on Saturday, 09 April, 2016 - 12:25:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Mon dieu it's worse than I thought.

Important to anybody fitting bumpers to Shadow 1s.

The bumper irons are bolted to the actual bumper with 3/8 UNF bolts and fat washer and spring washer. If the bolt is too long or washers are left off then the bolt will screw in and push a dent into the bumper from the inside which is a rechrome job after dressing the dent out . So BE AWARE ITS AN EXPENSIVE MISTAKE. I shall stop shouting now.

The bumpers go rusty where the internal bracket holds the captive nut. This can be DIY repaired. The easiest way is the cut a square hole removing the rusty section. Then cut a piece of steel to fit the hole leaving a gap around equal to the thickness of the mig wire for good penetration. If the hole goes into the tight curve bit, then the repair bit will have to be bent to shape. The bumper is about 14swg thick plus plating. So use 2mm thick steel which can be formed cold using a bit of round bar the bend around. It will take a bit of time and tweaking but this is diffinately DIY able. The patch has to be thicker than the parent metal because if one looks carefull the bumper is curved both ways. One way the curve is a lot and the other way it's more of a sweep than curve. Something like a 100ft radius. The patch is fitted flush to the inside of the bumper so that the out side is proud and the there's ledgeor sticky out bit.
This is ground down flush with the parent metal after welding and blended to give a radius using a 4 or 4.5 " angle grinder fitting with a FLEXIBLE BACKING PAD AND DISC DO NOT USE HARD WHEEL YOU WILL COCK IT UP AND BODY FILLER CAN'T BE CHROMED. The welding must be good use argon co mix and 0.8mm standard steel wire but 6mm is ok. Before welding practice on scrap so that the machine is set bang on.
To align properly use magnets inside the bumper over the joint to be welded. Weld one tack in the middle not a corner. Then check alignment and adjust with hammer as needed. It the tack breaks the file up the tack and start again. Once four sides and if unlucky a couple of tacks at the top and correctly aligned reward yourself with tea and medals.

Before cutting or welding take the bumper blade to the platers and reverse plated it thus leaving bare steel with very obvious rust damage which is what you want, obvious. If the chrome is ground off then it will contaminate the steel and the weld which will make the welded area harder than the rest so when blending the welds tend to be raised. When close use a hand file.

Forgot. Before blending the captive nut needs to be madeThe original is a folded piece of steel with a nut in the U shape. The easiest way is to use a flat piece of 1/8 steel with a nut welded to the back. Make it over length assemble the corner bit and bumper iron to get correct alignment trimming the bracket as needed then fully weld it in. Using the corner and bumper iron to hold in place. Cover bumper corner with gaffer tape for protection.

The plating shop can fill minor pits with a heavy copper plate. Using a finer flexible disk lightly polish the bumper to give a clue as to how good the bumper will be when chromed. Don't go mad and thin the steel is only so thick.

Choosing the plater is best done by finding a shop that advertises that they do decorative chrome for vehicles. If the shop doesn't normally do this sort of work then don't even ask. Because show chrome is a specialist plating process.

Tricks that plates get up to. I don't know much about the plating process but I know that dodges can be applied that are undectible until a short few years later the chrome is falling off. One such dodgy rip method is to plate directly on to steel. I think the process goes polish lightly, heavy copper plate, polish to high shine, nickel plate, polish to high shine, chrome plate polish to high shine and then phone the customer that it's ready. Or the nickel is first, not sure. London chrome is the bees knees for this sort of work and they will do the welding as well but it costs more, obviously.

Stainless is an excellent idea it's a shame the bits can't be brought piece meal. The difference between shinny grey stainless and slightly shinny blue of show chrome will be a small bit noticeable but infinitely better than rust or a bent up bumper or both.

Radiator shops also used to repair bumpers. Bumper bar service was common up until the 1980s. I had a flattened Rover P4 bumper and Acorn Radiators straighten it and rechromed it for 35 quid in 1978. The Rover was 1959 Rover 100 in grey over black with burgundy leather and carpets. Lovely car with heavy steering. It had a pull out tool draw under the dash and a very useful boot size. 6 cylinder 2625cc manual overdrive with kick down the quality wasn't far off RR quality. My wife and I and 4 year old son went all over the south coast of the U.K. In the Viking Rover 20 mpg. Got 85 mph out of the car.

The detailing on the jeep is nearly finished apart from the Momo steering wheel and dashboard binnacle repair the warp is caused by the demister heat.
I removed also 1 main agent sticker. 1 used car dealer sticker. 2 child lock stickers and 2 laser electronic alarms sticker.
I am going to piant the Matt black glass surrounds in situ ( the clips will probably break ) the body colour dark metallic green. It's not a bad colour. Removing all the rubbish makes the car look co ordinated and even sleek.
The jeep had 22 stickers and badges. Only 5 now.
I have drilled the underside of the front bumper for the Hella spot lamps as close to the back edge of the bumper as I dare to keep the spots far back and less noticeable. The brackets are bolted in and painted body colour. Also I decided to piant the tow bar body colour but this may cause a problem later with paint flaking off it is does then I shall simply repainted in my favourite black piant , Wickes black gloss enamel 5.95 a litre.

Whilst waiting for paint to dry I got some wax tyre chalk and marked all the blemishes on my Shadow. There are 12. The total area is about 8 square inches, so expressed like that it makes the job seem easier. I am thinking 10 hours and 50?quid in materials. I am tempted to mask all of the chrome, but remove bumper and sill trim and blow the whole car in clear coat, using spray gun, not aerosol, aerosol works well when doing 8 square inches but not a whole car the aerosol can't deliver the paint fast enough to get even coverage unless it one panel at a time.
My rear bumper. The chrome is shot and there's rust as well. I have been toying withe idea of welding a square bit in the middle so a towing ball can be fitted complete with holes for the tow ball bolts and room for the socket. Then getting the modified bumper show chromed. The design I have in mind has internal corners where the square bit joins thus making shaping and blending harder ( the lastest phrase for harder is ---much more difficult ---- HARDER is the correct word.

If I do I will fit a spring loaded stainless steel cover. Also the LPG filler plug is under the bumper. So I thought that maybe the mods could include on the bumper a blended bit for the LPG thingy thus making my rear end attractive to other drivers, not all drivers are male you know so stop sniggering and grow up.

But all this is on back burner until my home is Spring cleaned along with the jeep stuff.


Isn't it surprising how much crap ones home seems acquire. I have no less than 6 can openers. I wil prune all this junk and store good stuff. And scrap the rest. I found my missing 17 mm snap on combo spanner. It was down the back of the cooker.
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Geoff Wootton
Grand Master
Username: dounraey

Post Number: 1159
Registered: 5-2012
Posted on Saturday, 09 April, 2016 - 13:06:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I'm fortunate with my car in that, having spent most of it's life in California, Nevada and now Florida (No winter road salt), the bumpers are in excellent condition. However, should I ever need to replace them I think the stainless ones would be a much better way to go, as opposed to welding and re-plating. I suspect, a lot cheaper too, given the cost of chroming these days.

If your bumpers are a bit rusty, here's a 3 minute video on how to clean them, using that great universal scouring fluid, Coca Cola.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7OdX42NjWQ

Geoff
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Bob Reynolds
Grand Master
Username: bobreynolds

Post Number: 381
Registered: 8-2012
Posted on Saturday, 09 April, 2016 - 19:51:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I wonder why RR didn't make the bumpers out of polished stainless steel, to match the radiator grille and the headlamp surrounds?
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Robert Noel Reddington
Grand Master
Username: bob_uk

Post Number: 955
Registered: 5-2015
Posted on Sunday, 10 April, 2016 - 08:12:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Bob,

Me too I have often wondered the same thing.

Rover SD1 and Citreon CX had Stainless or inox bumpers. And bothe cars looked fine with inox and most people would think they were chrome which is good enough for me and you.

I am very very tempted to go for an inox bumper kit.
The only bad bits on my car is rear bumper centre rust around the mountings and flaking near the raised bit for the no plate lamp and one over rider. The rest is worth quite a bit used which will off set the cost the the inox kit. Two of the over riders, both rear corners, and front centre bit are about ten years old and are as new because the inside is coated with my favourite super sticky thick grease.

The extra lighting that you mentioned. I have done a bit of research and this is worth a new thread in general discussion which I will do after a cup of tea and some Jaffa cakes.
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Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov
Grand Master
Username: soviet

Post Number: 457
Registered: 2-2013
Posted on Sunday, 10 April, 2016 - 11:15:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Greetings jetsetters. Allow me to puff up my soviet ego by informing you that Camargues indeed have stainless steel bumpers and I could proceed to blab that the reason is because it was a car a cut above the Shadow and the Corniche but I suspect you would all have a jolly squeal about that so I will be honest and say I have zero idea apart from a quess that the tooling cost for stamped mild would . have been horredous. Does this mean the Camargue had hand crafted bumpers?
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Robert Noel Reddington
Grand Master
Username: bob_uk

Post Number: 959
Registered: 5-2015
Posted on Tuesday, 12 April, 2016 - 10:04:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

To me Inox bumpers make a Carmague better in that respect to a Shadow with chrome bumpers.
I have never driven a Carmague but I dare say it drives like a Shadow or a Spirit depending upon the year of the Carmague. The power to weight ratio is about the same. The Carmague is said to be faster, but there's not a lot in it.
Most people buy a model of car because that's what they want (Subject to the money of course. Easy to buy but worry about the running cost later is often prevalent)
The Carmague has a not so good looking front as the SY and SZ. But I find that the rear of the Shadow is not quite right. I feel the curve of the top of the boot lid is a bit to curved. Then other days I feel it's ok.
The Jaguar E Type looks good from any angle. But it's a sports car. It has a long bonnet and a short tail and designed for 2 people. So in proportion the E is say 20% passenger space and a Shadow is 50% passenger space. The Shadow is designed for 4 people and luggage. The E, 2 people and a BIT of luggage for a Saturday night jolly. Most E types are driven not far. If I had a choice of my E type or my Shadow to go 400 miles to Scotland then the practical choice has to be the Shadow. Malcome Sayer designed the E.

I should think that because some Shadows are slightly faster than other Shadows that same applies to Carmagues. So it is highly probable that there will be a Standard unmolested Shadow that is faster than a Standard Carmague. This can happen with brand new cars. The reason I don't know.

I remember an Austin 1100 completely standard. It was a little bit faster than the 1300 version . Only a little bit. But it went well for that sort of car. CGA 136B 1964 Austin 1100. I brought it 150 quid at 9 years old used and abused it for 18 months and sold it for 125. Good cheap car. Even in 1971 it was motoring on the cheap.

The problem with Chrome is that it's porous and lets the damp through and mild steel goes rusty and pushes the chrome off, leaving that familiar look of bumpy chrome with rust freckles. The heavy copper plate is meant to stop this.

The tooling costs for mild and Inox pressings are about the same. The cost of the dies aren't that expensive. The press is already there and is used for other pressings.

It's a bit like my lathe. It does other things beside skimming drums. If I had brought the lathe solely for drums then I couldn't do them for 7.50 per drum. The bumper press tool will only do a given bumper obviously, so that is the only cost apart from overheads and wages.