| Author | Message | ||
     Geoff Wootton Grand Master Username: dounraey Post Number: 1126 Registered: 5-2012 |
Why is it illegal to sell your Silver Shadow in the UK? | ||
| Bob Reynolds Grand Master Username: bobreynolds Post Number: 371 Registered: 8-2012 |
I didn't know it was.  | ||
| richard george yeaman Grand Master Username: richyrich Post Number: 476 Registered: 4-2012 |
I am not good at quizzes but I am sure it will either be something smart or something really stupid. Richard. | ||
| Geoff Wootton Grand Master Username: dounraey Post Number: 1127 Registered: 5-2012 |
It's illegal to sell anything in the UK that contains asbestos, so if you still have the original insulating material on your stove pipes you are technically in breach of the law if you sell your car. I know it's one of those laws that everyone ignores, but the FBHVC (Federation of British Historic Vehicle Clubs) are taking it seriously enough to be consulting with the HSE, to try and get an exemption. OK, a bit of useless information, but this is idler chatter. Geoff | ||
| michael vass Prolific User Username: mikebentleyturbo2 Post Number: 115 Registered: 7-2015 |
Hi Geoff what about the asbestos in brake and clutch linings? and in gaskets? This would make all ,what pre 1980 cars illegal too? Mike | ||
| Geoff Wootton Grand Master Username: dounraey Post Number: 1128 Registered: 5-2012 |
If the car is still using the original linings, which is quite possible given the low mileage of many classic cars, then it is technically illegal to sell the car. This is why the FBHVC is seeking exemption, to clear up this anomaly. In practice, no-one is going to get prosecuted, but technically it is an offence. In the US the law is much more flexible, to take account of these things. Geoff | ||
| Geoff Wootton Grand Master Username: dounraey Post Number: 1129 Registered: 5-2012 |
Actually, I should say it could be an offence, since I doubt this has ever been tested in a UK Court of Law. However, it is illegal to sell anything that contains asbestos, so a jobsworth judge could set a legal precedent. This is why the FBHVC is seeking the exemption. | ||
| Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov Grand Master Username: soviet Post Number: 448 Registered: 2-2013 |
Well Geoff you did have me wracking my mind over that quiz. This 420G Jaguar has what I suspect is asbestos on its battery heat shield so I must investigate it with care not that the car will ever be sold by me. And why should I have even a tiny concern about asbestos as I must surely be immune to it. I clearly remember being 15 years old and enjoying the sweet smell and taste of brand new early 1970s and 1960s MercedesBenz brake pads as I stood in front of a grinder putting a lovely chamfer on them to stop them squealing. I became more sensible later on being drunk and stoned at 260 kilometers an hour on a Kawasaki GPZ 900. Yep almost too drunk to walk but I could still ride . Strange as you get to almost 60 and start to take care and then you see bloody Keith Richards playing Havana. | ||
| richard george yeaman Grand Master Username: richyrich Post Number: 477 Registered: 4-2012 |
One of the first things I did when I bought my Shadow1 was to remove the asbestos from the stove pipe Richard. | ||
| Geoff Wootton Grand Master Username: dounraey Post Number: 1131 Registered: 5-2012 |
Very wise Vladimir, to be drunk at 260 kph. It's horrible crashing when you're sober. | ||
| Geoff Wootton Grand Master Username: dounraey Post Number: 1132 Registered: 5-2012 |
Keith Richards is becoming a bit inspirational. At 73 he just keeps going, doing the stuff he likes without caring what anyone thinks about him. You've got to admire the bloke. | ||
| Geoff Wootton Grand Master Username: dounraey Post Number: 1133 Registered: 5-2012 |
Richard I did the same, but mainly because I needed to replace the stove pipes. I think the recommendation is for a full bodysuit but I just used a respirator. I was very careful and sealed the asbestos in some plastic bags. I remember at school there were asbestos mats in the physics and chemistry labs. If you lifted them and left them to drop back the air was full of fibres. The dust cloud seemed hazardous then, before the research confirming it, so I always kept clear of it. The other fun thing kids used to play with was mercury. If a drop gets spilled nowadays they close the school Geoff | ||
| ChristopherCarnley Unregistered guest Posted From: 86.147.219.164 |
Did you know that the first recorded death from mesothelioma was in 1928, in Leeds (UK)and concerned the death of a young female textile worker who lived close to the vile Turner factory. Of course they denied any causal link,as have every factory since, however the judge awarded the family compensation to be paid by Turners. There are three main types of asbestos, but the blue crocidolite is most deadly, and the white chrysotile, less so, and only after substantial exposure. There is a lot of hysteria surrounding it and and there are only legal actions if anyone suffers loss or damage from exposure to the fibres (Message approved by david_gore) | ||
| Robert Noel Reddington Grand Master Username: bob_uk Post Number: 933 Registered: 5-2015 |
Keith caused a drugs short age in London by taking them all. It's a wonder he's still standing. I have been exposed to asbestos. 64 and my lungs work fine. There is a lot of over stating the danger of asbestos. Water keeps the dust down. To get health problems one must have a lot of exposure. Mesothelioma is ultimately fatal and not a nice way to go grasping for air. It's a horrible disease so be warned and take precautions such as lots of water, gloves, breathing mask and googles. As stated the blue stuff needs extra care. My stove pipes are naked because the sleeves fell apart and blew away in the wind. Hopefully the Windows were closed at the time. There are other products such as plaster which can have a similar effect. Plasterers Lung I think it's called. Hats where made by hatters. The process used Mercury hence, Mad as a Hatter. I don't touch fibre glass. Because I think it causes lung problems. Plus it makes me itch. Barrier cream helps. But all over the body !!! | ||
| Jan Forrest Grand Master Username: got_one Post Number: 921 Registered: 1-2008 |
Ever wonder why we don't see many (?any?) self luminous watch dials these days? Because the luminosity was produced by paint containing a significant quantity of radioactive radium - the very stuff that Marie Curie discovered and was killed by. The females who painted it onto the numbers and hands used fine point brushes which they kept tight by licking them. They also tended to paint their teeth with the substance. Many of them died at an early age from cancers of both the soft and hard (bone) tissues as well as leukemia. During that era a lot of health giving benefits were ascribed to radium which led to a lot of radium based panaceas making the market. From radium water to even glow-in-the-dark radium condoms, the list went on and on. One man was known to drink several bottles of radium water every day. The news article claimed that everything went well until, one day, his lower jaw fell off! More recently my BIL worked for a well known building firm which will remain nameless (however the letters V, H and E figure prominently in the name). One site he worked on required considerable cleaning up before the real job could be started. A lot of this clearing up required the removal of significant quantities of asbestos, much of which was already blowing around the site at the slightest indication of a wind. What kind of protective clothing was he given? Not even a pair of gloves, which he had to purchase himself! | ||
| ChristopherCarnley Unregistered guest Posted From: 86.130.236.181 |
The old coal miners in this area all suffered from black lung,a condition that had such a long name that it had to be very serious, and starting "ultramicroscopic...." All to keep the home fires burning, the furnaces roaring, etc etc. Manchester, the only place on Earth where you wake up to the sound of sparrows coughing. (Message approved by david_gore) | ||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 1956 Registered: 4-2003 |
Chris, The North England coal fields weren't called the "black country" for nought....... A similar situation applied in the Welsh slate mines - during a visit to the Llechwedd slate mine near Blaenau Ffestiniog, I read a report of a coroner's inquest into the death of a slate miner where the doctor conducting the autopsy reported he could feel the grit embedded in the miner's lungs as he opened them with a scalpel for the autopsy. The life of a worker had very little value let alone consideration in those days. | ||
| Jan Forrest Grand Master Username: got_one Post Number: 923 Registered: 1-2008 |
The appellation "The Black Country" was reserved for the Midlands - Birmingham, Coventry and the surroundings. It related to the vast, dark clouds of smoke issuing from the chimneys of the local industries. Coal fired, of course, but not particularly mined locally. Many workers in all types of industries - especially coal related - tended to die from mesothelioma, which is a type of 'small cell carcinoma/epithelioma. Similar environmentally caused diseases are making a bit of a comeback since the military decided to make armour piercing shells from depleted uranium. At the same time tanks and APCs are required to have low exhaust emissions! Work that one out if you can. | ||
| ChristopherCarnley Unregistered guest Posted From: 86.164.119.9 |
Does anyone remember the American song from the early sixties,with the refrain:- "Pollution, pollution,wear a gasmask and a veil, "Then you can breathe, so long as you don't inhale"? There was a huge amount of coal mined in Staffordshire. (Message approved by david_gore) | ||
| Robert Noel Reddington Grand Master Username: bob_uk Post Number: 941 Registered: 5-2015 |
Concerns of the environments nature are not a new. One concern was the idea of steam engines pulling trams. This was in the 1880s. However electricity solved the problem and one of the first electric tram systems was in Berlin. In Bournemouth we used to have trolley buses. The over head wires were taken down in the 1960s. Now there is talk of having trolley buses again. | ||
| Robert Noel Reddington Grand Master Username: bob_uk Post Number: 942 Registered: 5-2015 |
Oh forgot. If its essential that the original asbestos part is retained then a heavy coat of enamel paint will bind surface asbestos dust or fibres trying to fall off. | ||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 1957 Registered: 4-2003 |
Chris, Is this the song by Tom Lehrer that you are referring to? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mvYec6AnCU I think this was around the same time as Verdelle Smith's song on a similar theme "Tar and Cement". I had an affinity for this song based on my personal experience of being a country boy who went to the city to go to University after leaving school and then going back in later years to find big changes that had destroyed the magic of the places I knew as a teenager: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIDLdgeP9Bw Another song on the same theme was performed by Peter, Paul and Mary, Joan Baez, the Kingston trio and the original songwriter Pete Seeger. Of course, this is the classic "Where Have All the Flowers Gone": Peter, Paul and Mary https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSkn5Mk10Y0 Joan Baez https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LZ2R2zW2Yc Kingston Trio https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bI3QVsW30j0&list=RDbI3QVsW30j0 Pete Seeger https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1y2SIIeqy34 In 1963, Marlene Dietrich performed a very emotional version - a great singer performing a classic folk music song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KLNwPppKTM | ||
| ChristopherCarnley Unregistered guest Posted From: 86.164.119.125 |
WOW! then there is "The Silent Spring", Rachel Carson. (Message approved by david_gore) | ||
| michael vass Prolific User Username: mikebentleyturbo2 Post Number: 122 Registered: 7-2015 |
Hi All And Joni Mitchel https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWwUJH70ubM Just down the road from me they are paving over paradise (the local nature reserve) to bulid a shopping complex, will we never learn? I live in Cannock, centre of coal production for centuries no wonder I have breathing problems! Born in Walsall also in the filthy black country ,I wonder how I'm still alive! Mike | ||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 1960 Registered: 4-2003 |
Michael, Joni Mitchell - another singer reminding us of things we are losing or have already lost. My father was a banker and we never lived in one place long enough to call it home - my biggest regret is that I have a lot of acquaintances but very few lifetime friends as a consequence. I spent most of my primary school years at Port Kembla primary school in the post-WW2 immigration era when refugee families were coming en-masse from Europe to Port Kembla where they could get immediate jobs in the steelworks and the their children came to school straight off the boats dressed in clothes from their homeland - leather pant and braces, embroidered shirts etc. I was in a class of 45 boys where 10 of us were native-born Australians. Non-English speaking parents regularly came to the school to take their children out of class to interpret for them when they had to go to the doctor or attend interviews - the children picked up English much faster than their parents because they were forced to read, speak and write English at school - no telephone interpreters existed in those days and you either sank or swam depending entirely on your own efforts and abilities. The school was next door to a large copper smelter and we spent every school day immersed in the sulphurous fumes from the smelting furnace. You could taste the sulphur in your mouth every time you breathed yet we seem to have survived relatively unaffected to the present day. I finished primary school at Hillston in the far west of NSW which was a real experience and then had to leave home to live in a hostel in Griffith to attend high school and my experiences there are a story for another day especially the influence of the Italian community and the high jinks we got up to at the hostel. I completed my high school education in Gloucester which remains my favourite town to this day thanks to the kind, welcoming and friendly reception given to new arrivals in the town and their quick acceptance by the community. A town which earnt my respect and which I consider to be my home as a result of the happy times I spent there in my teen-age years. | ||
| Randy Roberson Grand Master Username: wascator Post Number: 654 Registered: 5-2009 |
Replaced my '70 Shadow's stove pipes and reinsulated with high temp sleeves used for aircraft. No asbestos and a silicone cover in black. Keep the asbestos wet, make no dust, and it is harmless. You did not hear this from me. | ||
| Robert Noel Reddington Grand Master Username: bob_uk Post Number: 951 Registered: 5-2015 |
No you heard it from me first about water. Asbestos used to be made into a plaster type stuff which was applied to pipes etc especial in boiler houses. As a plaster it's safe to handle with out much in the way of protective equipment. Then once dry a coat of paint. In the uk the culture behind the Health and Safety at work Act 1974 was that the employer supply's the safety equipment and instruct the worker to us it. If the worker didn't then the worker if injured or ill wouldn't be able to claimed legal tort. In other words lead a horse to water but you can't make the horse drink it. Not supplying safety gear means in the advent of a claim for tort the worker has a chance of winning a claim. I used to get free steel toe cap boots, work coats. At Vosa I got free jumpers shirts high viz jackets and coats, hard hat, safety Oxford shoes, Tuff boots, safety goggles and glasses, breathing masks and shirts and trousers. I won't work unless I am so equipped. I have a very small piece of finger missing and wish to keep rest intact. If the employer can't afford the gear then the employer is liable to go broke soon and not pay you, and he won't care. A problem that often comes up is that the employer thinks the health safety regs are difficult to apply. So they don't. It's actually easy. Example angle grinder needs goggles and gloves. The correct thing to do is have a safety file and physically write in the file a risk assessment. Which is sparks in eyes and fires etc. A risk assessment is simple, if one is about to cross the road one does a risk assessment first automatically, and looks both ways and deciding is that car going to fast and has the driver seen me, obviously one does not do it in writing just mentally. An inspection by health and safety will look at the file and likes to see that someone has made a note of various dangers. | ||
| Randy Roberson Grand Master Username: wascator Post Number: 655 Registered: 5-2009 |
Agree, my employer provides every possible type of protective gear, and tries to force everyone to use it. It is so pervasive they really mean it. Pipeline and compressor station operation and maintenance is hazardous anyway: flammable, various levels of high pressure, lube oil everywhere (hope some goes into the engine)heavy parts, big wrenches, tractors, snakes, digs can cave in, 42 inch pipe, and the list goes on. You get a bit of metal in an eye, wreck a company vehicle, hazards everywhere. All in all, though, injuries are rare enough. I always have worn my hearing protection, respirators when needed, gloves, and we got work clothing and steel toe boots when I actually worked. We still get gloves and safety glasses, and we have to wear everything fire retardant when in the hazardous areas. Really the record keeping and proving you are following the rules to the government, costs more than the safety gear. One of my tasks is failure investigations: almost always its machinery failures, the injuries would be investigated by the safety dept. employees. A 10,000 HP engine or a 20,000 HO gas turbine will hurt you though. Randy - I hope you do not mind me editing the layout of your post to make it easier to read - I have not changed the content. David | ||
| Jan Forrest Grand Master Username: got_one Post Number: 924 Registered: 1-2008 |
Some jobs are much more dangerous than others. When I turned 18, in late 1968, I left my job in a steel foundry to join my father in the open air laying private railway lines. The only protective gear any of us had was what we bought with our own money. On the whole that tended to be just steel toe cap boots and a donkey jacket. However, in snow, the boots would be swapped for 2 pairs of woolly socks and a pair of wellies (no steel toe caps). Shortly before I joined the 'gang' a company land rover was hit by a large truck resulting in one man losing a leg. Shortly after I joined another took a steel splinter to his eye resulting in the loss of it. For the next 18 months the list of minor injuries could have filled any H&S injury book, but we didn't bother to keep one. Then the worst of them all was an uncontained length of rail hitting the 'ganger' (my father) and crushing his skull killing him outright. It wasn't long after that I turned my attentions to a slightly less risky profession (ambulance driver) and left. However in not much over a year my wife's former husband (now ganger) dropped dead from a massive coronary as he walked to catch a bus to work. Not bad for a gang of four or five - depending on the actual job in hand. However, to put things in context: While working in the foundry I was hit by a 'shower' of hardened molding materials resulting in severe lacerations to the back of my head and left eyebrow. The latter has left the area numb to this day, although the muscles respond well enough for me to do a (Roger Moore) Simon Templar impression. Since then many of my work related injuries have been interesting to say the least. Both my hands and wrists bear fading scar from burns, lacerations, crush injuries and even animal bites. My shins are covered in overlapping scars from injuries I didn't even notice happening at the time (no, I wasn't drunk!). Now I have hypertension, degenerative cardiac myopathy, pernicious anaemia, every form of osteo arthrosis known to man and (icing on the cake) recurrent atrial fibrillation which can have my heart skipping along at 200bpm and more. So far a drug regime can keep this almost at bay, but when it kicks off I end up spending a few days in Cardiac Care before and after having the bloody thing tasered into playing nicely again. On the bright side I'm having lens replacement surgery in a few weeks (elective so I have to shell out over £4 grand for it) and should be able to see as well as anyone with 20/20 vision - or better! | ||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 1965 Registered: 4-2003 |
Hi Jan, Have sent you a PM which might be of interest to you. David | ||
| Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov Grand Master Username: soviet Post Number: 455 Registered: 2-2013 |
If had to decide which put my life in danger more I would say hands down the workplace has nearly killed me many more times than street brawling, martial arts and the stupidity of mixing drugs and alcohol with very fast driving and riding. Due to the amount of stupidity by young men and the mindblowing incompetence of extremely rich farmers I will not accept mechanical work on cattle stations. My next field of employment will be council dog and cat catcher or weed killer. These positions pay as much as country mechanics. |
