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Archive through 11 September, 2014Brian Vogel54 11-9-14  12:10 am
Archive through 27 March, 2018Vladimir Ivanovich K17 27-3-18  05:12 am
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Welcome to the Suggestion Box. If you have some constructive criticism or a suggestion for this board or the RROC(A) web site, please place your message for the administrator here.

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Brian Vogel
Grand Master
Username: guyslp

Post Number: 2686
Registered: 6-2009
Posted on Thursday, 06 December, 2018 - 07:50 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Serious suggestion, update the Rules and "Netiquette" part under "Getting Started." Or, better yet, dedicate a section under Documentation for Forum Rules.

I can find nowhere that the forum rules, the overall forum rules, are documented. That really needs to occur in a single, centralized location, even if there are rules specific to certain forums under the site.

People cannot be expected to follow "unwritten rules" and even written rules not in a place where one can reference them when the situation warrants checking.

Brian
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Christian S. Hansen
Grand Master
Username: enquiring_mind

Post Number: 1031
Registered: 4-2015
Posted on Thursday, 06 December, 2018 - 08:14 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Go to "Topics". Scroll down to "Idler Chatter" and at least the existence of limits is referenced, if not detailed, specific "rules and regulations". The broad brush strokes provide notice of limits as well as notice of the discretion of the administration to make any determination of propriety. Big deal. As noted in another thread, it is the singular generosity of the administration that makes this forum possible. Disagree if you will but it is simply polite to allow the same courtesy that you would to a host if you were visiting them in their own home.


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Brian Vogel
Grand Master
Username: guyslp

Post Number: 2687
Registered: 6-2009
Posted on Thursday, 06 December, 2018 - 08:46 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Christian,

As a moderator at another forum I am not arguing, in any way, about the right of the RROC Australia Forums owners and moderators to do as they see fit.

At the same time, the membership on any forum, not just this one, should have some reference to what the rules are prior to joining.

I did not even know about the Idler Chatter changes until many days afterward and had to be pointed to specific posts. That is not a good way to handle forum rules, or changes to same, period. Members have a right, particularly new members, to know the standards to which they will be held. It's just that simple, and it's also conventional, too.

Brian
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RR Forums Administrator
Board Administrator
Username: admin

Post Number: 103
Registered: 10-2002
Posted on Thursday, 06 December, 2018 - 06:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

The forum rules have always been available on the main page at http://au.rrforums.net/index.html.

Approval of any membership application was contingent on the applicant's declaration of having read and accepted these rules.
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Christian S. Hansen
Grand Master
Username: enquiring_mind

Post Number: 1032
Registered: 4-2015
Posted on Thursday, 06 December, 2018 - 08:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Update to my above post: I see that the Topics page subheading Idler Chatter has been revised and one must now click on Idler Chatter to see a more detailed and comprehensive notice of the conditions and restrictions.
The link given in administrator's post above can also be found under Terms and Conditions on the main page.
Just saying...in order to clarify where the relevant data is located as it has recently changed.
Brian can verify, but I think he is simply suggesting for some sort of "attention members" post when rules are updated so that members can keep current.

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Brian Vogel
Grand Master
Username: guyslp

Post Number: 2689
Registered: 6-2009
Posted on Friday, 07 December, 2018 - 12:27 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

An "Attention Members" broadcast post or e-mail is, to my mind, an absolute requirement when rules are changed. It's not that I think that anyone is trying "bait and switch" but it is important that people who wish to have a chance to review them.

And the content of the link noted by the Admin is exactly the sort of page I had in mind. That being said, I know I would have read it "way back when" but if you had asked me to find that now, prior to the post above, I could not have done so.

It would be a good idea to add a "Forum Rules" link to the forums main page, as this is the location from which most people would be inclined to start hunting for it for subsequent review. I have not entered these forums other than by going straight to http://au.rrforums.net/cgi-bin/forum/discus.pl for years now (and I consider it to be "the forums main page"). We all see the column of navigation links to the left, and most of those under the Utilities section are not even applicable to the membership at large, while the Forum Rules do apply to everyone. Adding a Forum Rules link under Documentation, for instance, if not in its own category, should not be an insurmountable task.
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RR Forums Administrator
Board Administrator
Username: admin

Post Number: 104
Registered: 10-2002
Posted on Friday, 07 December, 2018 - 06:26 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

A link to the Terms and Conditions has been provided at the top of the main topic page for many years. It is repeated at the bottom of that page as well, for good measure.
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Brian Vogel
Grand Master
Username: guyslp

Post Number: 2692
Registered: 6-2009
Posted on Friday, 07 December, 2018 - 06:40 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

OK, I give up! I was trying to make a useful suggestion and point out that there are likely a great many who, like myself, do not visit the Topics page at all frequently.

I rely on the "Last Day" (sometimes "Last Week") search function and virtually never, ever see the Topics page.

When someone such as myself, who's been a regular here for over a decade, tells you that they had no idea where the Forum Rules were kept that should tell you something, and that something is not that I'm clueless.

Brian
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Christian S. Hansen
Grand Master
Username: enquiring_mind

Post Number: 1033
Registered: 4-2015
Posted on Friday, 07 December, 2018 - 07:40 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Irrespective how easily, or not easily, it is to find the terms and conditions page (which is notably different from the rules/advice contained on the Idler Chatter link page), the point that I believe is being missed is that when those terms/rules/advice are modified, it would be appropriate for that update/revision to be announced in a thread/post (including a link to the revised terms/rules page) that will be found when a member views recent posts. Otherwise they will have no idea that the contents of the terms/rules/advice page(s) have changed.
Just saying...

P.S. I am like Brian in that I frequently view the forum and try to constructively contribute ("try" being the operative word!) and almost universally simply click on the "last day" subheading to see recent posts and thus any notice of administrative revisions will be instantly found. The issue is not revisions per se but notice of revisions.
Again, just saying...

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Brian Vogel
Grand Master
Username: guyslp

Post Number: 2693
Registered: 6-2009
Posted on Friday, 07 December, 2018 - 08:11 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Christian,

Just for the record, we have no argument whatsoever, just ideas running in parallel.

I previously wrote, in response to your earlier post, An "Attention Members" broadcast post or e-mail is, to my mind, an absolute requirement when rules are changed.

At the same time, and having longstanding direct involvement with forums both as a member and a moderator, it only makes sense that some direct route to said rules also be available from the page(s) from which users routinely post.

For me it's a "both are needed," situation, not either/or.

Brian
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RR Forums Administrator
Board Administrator
Username: admin

Post Number: 105
Registered: 10-2002
Posted on Friday, 07 December, 2018 - 07:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

The T&Cs state that
RR Forums may change these terms and conditions on a prospective basis by posting updated terms on this page or in relevant areas of the forum.
Nowhere does it suggest that the membership will be formally notified when these are updated.

Nevertheless I'll consider posting a notification the next time I'm obliged to reinforce the T&Cs. Judging by the last time this was needed that should be sometime around 2031.
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Brian Vogel
Grand Master
Username: guyslp

Post Number: 2694
Registered: 6-2009
Posted on Saturday, 08 December, 2018 - 01:52 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

The "or relevant areas of the forum" is a big, fat, important part of that. For significant changes that would mean, "So that every member who logs in or comes back for their next visit while still being logged in will be forced to view the notice."

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