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John Dare
Prolific User
Username: jgdare
Post Number: 76
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, 16 January, 2005 - 20:11: |    |
A well respected and widely read U.K motoring magazine offers a monthly prize for "Pedant of the Month", for seemingly, there are people in this world, who, endowed with surplus or idle time, pore over magazine content in a desperate search to "find the error"; text or photograph/illus. etc. This curious objective is often pursued with considerable zeal, irrespective of how insignifigant or irrelevant said "error" may ultimately be regarded by readers at large, if indeed they had noted in the first instance. I am contemplating a similar offer for assorted marque motoring club forums, however in the interest of fairness, spelling and grammatical lapses will not be regarded as errors, irrespective of the degree or frequency thereof. |
David Gore
Moderator
Username: david_gore
Post Number: 370
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Monday, 17 January, 2005 - 09:51: | |
In the live steam model engineering/model railway hobbies; these people are referred to as "rivet counters" and woe betide any modeler who does not have the exact number of rivets/fasteners/equipment in the correct location.
I am not in favour of encouraging this practice on our forum as it could reduce participation by individual contributors who may be pedantic but also have valuable and worthwhile contributions to make often on matters that no-one else can assist with or be interested in. |
John Dare
Prolific User
Username: jgdare
Post Number: 81
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Monday, 17 January, 2005 - 10:55: | |
Thank you David. Rather than compromise the integrity of this or other (gentlemanly) forums to which I contribute, I had proposed that aspiring contenders actually make application to me (via e' mail) if they feel that one (or more) of their contribution/s qualify them for "Pedant of the Month". I may award a prize in the form of a R-R part, the value of which would be commensurate with the degree of pedantry so offered and at year end, publish details of the annual overall winnner. |
Bill Coburn
Grand Master
Username: bill_coburn
Post Number: 304
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Monday, 17 January, 2005 - 15:50: | |
Ah! Do not forget the genesis of the Tee One movement albeit banned and banished. Actually our Marque should probably take the pedantry prize in perpetuo. Thank God we have shed the pretentious detail generated I might add by the spin merchants sans pareille. But in fairness I have often listened to arguments about Silver Ghost Specifications and for adamance and fervour they are without peer. Pedantry perhaps but good fun and very satisfying to see a bonnet flung up and a trembling finger pointing to the disputed component. Sadly such enjoyment will not occur with the Spirit assembly which seemed to be manufactured on a day to day 'what's in the store today boys' basis. For a judge to resort to rivett counting with these cars would be a very brave pursuit! |
Robert Wort
Prolific User
Username: robert_wort
Post Number: 40
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Monday, 17 January, 2005 - 22:11: | |
Hello Bill and thank you for the email today.
Could you tell me what is Tee One , Why is it banned and banned by whom please? I understand Tee One deals with technical data and other areas of interest to Shadows, T's and later types. All areas of which I am particularly interested in. |
Bill Coburn
Grand Master
Username: bill_coburn
Post Number: 305
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, 18 January, 2005 - 09:13: | |
Robert, I feel David Gore's delete finger quivering, but you did ask the question. It is all so long ago but briefly a hapless new owner of a very tired T series Bentley attended a monthly meeting of the Club as a potential member. The Chair at some stage asked the owner to stand up and tell those assembled about his car. The fellow, salt of the earth type and equipped with a limited vocabulary, hesitatingly announced that he had a Tee One Bentley .. which was as far as he got. From the back of the room a very knowlegable and highly regarded long term member called out 'Well that is wrong for a start' and proceded to give a dissertation on the nomenclature of post-war models. The Bentley owner quite mortified with embarrassment sat down and some little time later left, never to be seen again! As you know we have had the 'R' Type Bentley, the 'S' series Bentley and later the 'T' series Bentley. This all fitted nicely until the Factory realised that unless the horsepower under the bonnet was increased to considerably more than 'adequate' there was little hope of cracking the US market. So with the aid of a large shoehorn the much lauded vee eight was inserted but otherwise externally the car was identical to its six cylinder predecessor. The big decision was made to call the re-engined car the S2. Please note that its badged twin the Rolls-Royce Silver Cloud which also enjoyed having its skirts shortened and bodice loosened had its model name, denoted with a Roman figure 'II' NOT 2 you understand, that was for the Bentley. I hope you have taken this in Robert as it is important if you are to unseat me in the John Dare Pedantry Stakes! The S3 was rushed in to give the Factory time to fix up a host of problems with the embryonic Shadow. The latter emerged with its Bentley derivative named the 'T'. Then history repeated itself and the T2 model appeared in 1977. There was never thank God a T3 although some unkind souls refer to my Mulsanne by that title! So having digested all this important detail I hope you will never be tempted to refer to refer to Arr Ones, Ess Ones or Tee Ones. It must have been most frustrating in the then Nomenclature Department with the SZ cars finally coming together as the temptation would have been to call the new Bentley the 'U' series. And then we would have had the occasional enquiry to an owner as to whether he had a 'Yew One'. And so the Mulsanne was born.
As to the banning, it became apparent after the Tee One embarrasment that there are a lot of owners who are more interested in how the car works and how to keep it working than driving it around for the rest of the World to admire. One of the biggest hurdles was the dearth of technical information on the cars and most sadly the reluctance of most owners to record their experiences with their spanners for the benefit of all. There is actually a virus of owners (how's that for a collective noun!) who are adamant that only highly trained specialists should be allowed to touch these cars. If this were the case we would not have many cars left today for reasons of cost and as you are undoubtedly aware the paucity of such specialists.
About four years ago a group of like minded owners equipped with their books and spanners got together and pulled their cars to pieces, getting help from each other and sharing whatever information they might have. This was the genesis of the 'Self Help Group' which has proved very popular ever since. At this first meeting it occured to me that a lot of good information would be forgotten so I scribbled the detail and published it to those attending and 'Tee One Topics' was born. As you will now know monthly 'editions' have pushed the page count to over 600 and copies go literally all over the World. The one glaring ommission is an index but that will get done eventually. I have kept going largely as a rebuke to some of the polish and preen merchants to prove that mere mortals can actually maintain these cars.
As to the banning, suffice to say that I have it in writing that the Club is to give no assistance to the 'Tee One Group' as we became known and that the Group has caused serious damge to the Club as a whole. Well if you find evidence of this I would be grateful for the detail. Meanwhile I (we) are more than happy to help enthusiasts get their cars on the road and to keep them there. |
Robert Wort
Prolific User
Username: robert_wort
Post Number: 42
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, 18 January, 2005 - 10:11: | |
Thank you for the explanation Bill. I won't risk any possible deletions by starting what is possibly an old debate. Suffice it to say that as an ex motor mechanic (on much simpler motorcars such as these), I have a lot to learn and any assistance in regard to technical data and self help groups and publications would always be appreciated by me. |
Bill Coburn
Grand Master
Username: bill_coburn
Post Number: 306
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, 18 January, 2005 - 23:50: | |
Thank you both. While I am preening myself has anybody noticed my meandering contributions to Praeclarvm. Are they of interest or should they be more technical? Bearing in mind that an awful lot of readers would be flat out opening the petrol filler, a discourse on correcting bowed crankshafts may not prompt detailed reading. Topics tries to be technical without being too much so. It tries to warn people where to look or go for help or at the least have some vocabulary to explain to the hapless mechanic what is wrong. I am now able to laugh about a very dear friend of mine who wrote to the editor of one of the Club publications and asked could there be more technical material included? The reply was that that if you want to read technical material - get a workshop manual!!! |
Robert Wort
Prolific User
Username: robert_wort
Post Number: 45
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, 19 January, 2005 - 01:08: | |
Hello Bill, As I have only just recently rejoined the Club, I have yet to receive Praeclarum so I'll just have to keep an eye out for it. As a club, I think technical papers and sessions should be part and parcel of the organisation. Other clubs do it so why should we be the exception. I will have to read the constitution again but I'm pretty sure that there is something in there that pertains to maintaining the standard and prserving the marque. This is not a quote but I am sure I saw something in there that covered it. If that is so, Then self help and technical articles in both state and federal issues should include a permanent section dealing with such issues. Even if I am incorrect and it isn't covered or referred to in the Constitution, it should be a mandatory inclusion anyway. Perhaps some excerpts from various workshop manuals from all models from time to time and /or a pictorial how to do it section in response to Members' queries. Not all members reside in a place situated close to a professional repairer or maybe they just simply can't afford to use them but still want to maintain their cars to a standard expected of the make. This avenue would cetainly be a boon to those mechanically minded who are willing to give it a go. |
Robert Wort
Prolific User
Username: robert_wort
Post Number: 46
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, 19 January, 2005 - 01:15: | |
Just on a different note, I just love the name of the chinese restaurant that the New members can go to ( refer Topics RROC(A) News and Events).Someone's got a sense of humour.
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David Gore
Moderator
Username: david_gore
Post Number: 372
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, 19 January, 2005 - 10:03: | |
In my opinion, forums such as this are a far superior means of communicating technical information to those in need in comparison to Club publications due to the advantages below:
Response Time: Questions are often answered within 24 hours often by more than one contributor each offering additional information to assist the enquirer. The time delay with publications means periods of a month or more could elapse before the question is answered possibly resulting in a car being off the road when it doesn't have to be.
Question & Answer: If the answer is not sufficiently detailed or hard for the enquirer to comprehend; they can come back with further questions and get the information they need.
Relevance: Topics covered will be those of immediate concern to owners and in a context appropriate to their needs. Printed articles often are in general terms to avoid "turning-off" readers.
Audio-Visual: The ability to post images, video clips, documentation etc to assist enquirers is unique to the internet - granted the resources available to us at the present time mean we can only "touch the surface" of this capability - my dream of an International Technical Archive to catalogue and store this information for retrieval on-demand will come eventually despite immense opposition and ultimate termination from within the two main international R-R/B Clubs when we tried to get this up and running two years ago. It is often argued that many owners are computer illiterate and some do not even know of the existence of the internet so it is a waste of time devoting Club resources to this facility - the ongoing efforts of our Administrator to demonstrate the advantages of our website at every Federal Rally is helping dispel this illusion and I have been pleased to see new users appearing on the Forum on a regular basis - it is interesting how opposition based on "fear of the unknown" dissipates when one has a problem and the only help available is from new technology!!
The internet will never replace printed matter given the advantages of hard copy and the prediction of the "paper-less office" never happened for this reason. I could never envisage working under a car, lap-top in hand trying to work out how to get a component out but perhaps I might be wrong as technology develops better, cheaper and more durable products. |
Robert Wort
Prolific User
Username: robert_wort
Post Number: 47
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, 19 January, 2005 - 12:10: | |
Well put David and you have a valid point. However, and as you stated yourself. Hardcopy is an invaluable aid and I can remember many times when I have had to revert to the printed word to solve a problem. I think there is room for both formats. |