| Author | Message | ||
     Jeffrey McCarthy Experienced User Username: jefmac2003 Post Number: 28 Registered: 5-2007 |
Apologies for bringing this one up again...search as I may I cannot find the thread where I know I have read something about this. I have the entire centre console out to change all the non-working panel lights. I cannot see anywhere on the underside of the cigar lighter mechanism where there is - or should be - a light globe. Anybody able to help ? Jeff | ||
| Paul Yorke Frequent User Username: paul_yorke Post Number: 70 Registered: 6-2006 |
I think there should be a small metal shroud that the bulb slips into. This is on the side of the body and can come off. There should be a red/white wire down there somewhere for it. Because they just un-clip, they can go missing completely. | ||
| Jeffrey McCarthy Experienced User Username: jefmac2003 Post Number: 29 Registered: 5-2007 |
Ahh - I eventually found it, thanks Paul - I'll post some photos later. It actually appears to be a part of the lighter but does unclip out of 2 parrallel slots. I found a small piece of charred blue paper around the globe-I assume that was put there by the factory, which was rather silly (or dangerous). The bulb already in there was a 1.5w which I changed for a 2.2w A lot of work to change a light bulb! I replaced the other 2 in there with wide angle LEDs but If the cigar lighter bulb ever blows again I think I'll just live without it. It was useful though - eventually I intend to change the vinyl around the dash so at least I have an idea where most of the screws are - damned difficult to get at. Once again, thanks. Jeff | ||
| bob uk Unregistered guest Posted From: client-81-108-181-227.brig.adsl.tesco.net |
To get at the gubbins behind the centre console remove the large black trianglar side covers. The bulb for the fag lighter can then be unclipped by squeezing the soides of the little shround. My fag lighter are protected by a 3 amp fuse enough to run a mobile phone or similar. But not enough to run a fag lighter. The actually fag lighters are in a box under the passenger seat. I do not think they are safe even when new. (Message approved by david_gore) | ||
| Jeffrey McCarthy Experienced User Username: jefmac2003 Post Number: 30 Registered: 5-2007 |
Bob, is that an inline fuse ? If so do all the wires (except earth?) go through the fuse ? I suppose one could try a 5 or even 10 amp and see if it still works. I'm keeping the lighters in the back for laptops etc. The one in the front will be used just for mobiles ... and one port wine cigar after I've finished the leather treatment ;-). | ||
| bob uk Unregistered guest Posted From: client-86-29-94-17.brig.adsl.tesco.net |
in line fuses 3amp glass in plastic thing. The rear doors can be reached -just- by removing the ash tray and if a longer than necessary tails used then the fuse can be changed very quick. I guess that a mobile uses maybe 1 amp ( the phone works by internal battery and the car just charges that) Easy way to find out is to spark a lap top up with an ameter in series. I guess a lap top is about 100 watts max which is 100/12=8 amps approx I do not smoke and fag lighters may encourage others to do so in my car,which means that the air-con won't work with a window open and I have to listen to the traffic. They can smoke till they go green but not in my car. Many years ago i took over a company car -Truimph Toledo -and I thought that the windows were tinted until I cleaned the inside of the glass and a brown syrupy sludge came off which was nicotine and tar from endless fags that the previous driver smoked. In the UK a fag means cigarette not a bloke who is over friendly. (Message approved by david_gore) | ||
| Jeffrey McCarthy Experienced User Username: jefmac2003 Post Number: 31 Registered: 5-2007 |
Hi Bob Yes, nobody so far has got up the courage to even ask if they can smoke in the car - although no doubt it'll happen one day - the answer will be 'you must be a very enthusiastic walker - like right now!' If somebody just lit up I think I'd be speechless for all of about 2 seconds. The port-wine cigar was just a joke really; very 'old mens' club' ~ leather & cigar smell ~ I've got to get around to the doors fairly soon anyway to have a look & fix some minor glitches so I'll put in some fuses while Im at it. I don't expect them to get much use but I'd rather be on the safe side. I plan on a dual battery system in about 18 months so I may isolate and re-do the rear lighter circuits completely with higher grade looms etc. at that time. I knew the English slang already though. It adds an interesting twist to the question 'have you got a light mate...' downunder ;-) And it's not even a cheap way to tint the windows. cheers, Jeff | ||
| Trevor P Hodgkinson New User Username: wm20 Post Number: 5 Registered: 11-2006 |
Just out of curosity, why the second battery? I bought one of those spiral ones a year or so ago & have been really impressed. It is the only battery that has enough kick left in it to start the car if it has been idle for a month or two. Which brings me to the question that I have always wanted to know. What appart from the clock is drawing the power that sends a normal battery flat in 4 weeks? | ||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 748 Registered: 4-2003 |
Hi Trevor, I tested drh14434 some years ago and found a permanent drain on the battery of 500mAmps - I never got around to finding the source but suspect it was an after-market radio-cassette player fitted by a previous owner in place of the 8-track cartridge player as it had an electronic memory for the radio station presets. The clock solenoid also drew intermittent current but this should not have flattened the battery. I took the easy way out and fitted a battery isolation switch - the nuisance of having to reset the radio presets was offset by not having to jump-start the car and replacing the battery prematurely because of the excessive cycling. Also a valuable safety item in the event of a short-circuit. | ||
| Jeffrey McCarthy Experienced User Username: jefmac2003 Post Number: 32 Registered: 5-2007 |
Hi Trevor, The idea of the second battery: If you fit a deep cycle battery as well as an auto solenoid or switch to keep it charged and/or isolated it means that in the event that your primary battery goes flat you can jump start the car without having to play around with jumper leads or battery re-chargers. This comes in handy if you are keeping your doors open while you're working on (or cleaning or socialising out of) the car without having to disconnect the battery earth; something which is easy to forget. The interior lights will flatten the battery in no time and you can't play the radio with the earth disconnected. Most modern cars have an isolation switch to stop this happening but I don't know where you would install one on a Shadow without interfering with the time-out switch. People who have boom boxes and other high power usage 'delights' on their hoonmobiles often do this -- or even, I'm told, install huge industrial strength batteries. Given the decline in tobacco use combined with the various electronic gizmos that now plug into the redundant lighter sockets I rather thought the idea could be adapted to provide in-car entertainment for the passengers -- especially of the ankle-biter variety. And you could also use the ashtrays to store the socket leads. Jeff (Message edited by jefmac2003 on 30 August 2007) | ||
| Jan Forrest New User Username: got_one Post Number: 5 Registered: 1-2008 |
Sorry, but I just had to reopen this thread re. the battery isolating switch question. I don't know if they were fitted to all markets but there is one on my Shadow (SRH24518) in the boot close to the battery. It looks like a big, red plastic key and, once turned to the 'off' position, becomes removeable so you can take it with you and leave the car totally immobilized. I recall reading about a tip about this concept many years ago in an 'old car' mag that suggested that a smallish fuse of a couple of amps or so could be wired in around the switch. This would be sufficient to power the clock, radio memory and one or two other small current devices but would blow immediately anyone tried to start the car. Not as secure as an aftermarket alarm system but, nonetheless, better than nothing! | ||
| Paul Yorke Prolific User Username: paul_yorke Post Number: 118 Registered: 6-2006 |
Jan, your battery switch was fitted afterwards and was never standard on the Shadows. They were fitted to prevent the battery going flat if the car isn't used for a couple of weeks or so. R-R fitted them as standard on the Spirits. Dual batteries in the Seraphs onwards. The small fuse idea that you mention is a good anti-theft idea BUT . . unfortunately it will allow the battery to go flat. Back up batteries (A 'pack' of 12v Nicads, Model shops are a good place to buy them. (Electric cars etc) ) fitted in the car on the clock / radio circuit is a better way. With a diode to allow charging but not discharging. | ||
| John Kilkenny Frequent User Username: john_kilkenny Post Number: 55 Registered: 6-2005 |
Jan's red plastic removable key was probably fitted as an immobiliser, because if someone broke into the car and attempted to start it they would then have to break into the boot as well, and even then they would have to re-make the circuit without the key. With regard to a battery losing charge when not in use, this happens with all batteries and older lead acid batteries are among the worst examples. An average car battery will self discharge at anything between 10 and 60 per cent per month depending on its structure, age, condition and ambient temperature. Compared with this, the power drain caused by clocks and standby electronic devices is not large. For example my Shadow with a quartz clock and radio standby uses 4 mA which is about 3 Amp Hours per month or 4% of a 70 Amp Hour battery. There is little value in fitting alkaline batteries to keep these devices running except if your car battery is often disconnected and you don't want to have to re-set them. These days, batteries are defined as having a 'Reserve Capacity' which is the number of minutes the battery will deliver 25 Amps before the voltage drops to 10.5 Volts. A standard car battery is designed to last three to four years, anything more is a bonus. It is also possible to buy long life, high performance batteries (see www.optimabatteries.com.au) that have a special plate structure which will maintain a charge for many months. Because of the age of our cars a good percentage of the batteries will be over four years old and have a higher self discharge rate. The easiest way to keep the battery charged is to run the car at least every couple of weeks, preferably on the road, though even fifteen minutes on fast idle may be enough. Monitor the ammeter and when the charging rate drops to a couple of amps it's OK. A trickle charger can also be used provided it is current and voltage limited. The life of a battery will be maximised if it is kept in a charged state. | ||
| Paul Yorke Prolific User Username: paul_yorke Post Number: 119 Registered: 6-2006 |
Jan's red plastic removable key was probably fitted as an immobiliser, because if someone broke into the car and attempted to start it they would then have to break into the boot as well, and even then they would have to re-make the circuit without the key. Nope! Probably not, I'm afraid  It would take less than a minute to bridge the cut out key - But the gearbox and ignition circuits take ages! I must have fitted over 100 of these, either with the removable key or the Fixed butterfly switch type as per the Spirits. Never as a security feature, but just because the owners were sick and tired of calling out me, the AA or Jump starting them. Even if they only left them for a few weeks. It is not the deliberate drains - clocks & radios etc. that are the problem - it is the unplanned ones - Windows constant lives, alternator & starter motors plus who knows what. It started to get really bad with the launch of the Shadow II. So maybe the auto air con etc. ? Anybody with one will know what a difference it makes! On later Spirit type cars, the clock & radios, alarm are fed from the battery side of the switch, leading to the same flat batteries. I've modified some so they are switched and I will probably need to do more as time goes by and they are used less frequently. For customers with mains supplies to hand I also recommend / fit maintenance chargers. Trickle chargers will still cook a battery if left on continuously. Maintenance chargers monitor the battery and tops it up when it needs it. TIP: When considering a maintenance charger don't buy one that you have to 'set' or turn on each time you plug it in. I've found that even small mains power glitches returns them to standby mode so you still end up with a flat battery! | ||
| John Kilkenny Frequent User Username: john_kilkenny Post Number: 56 Registered: 6-2005 |
Hello Paul, I would suggest that any device with a removable key functions as a security feature, and breaking into the boot of a Shadow is far more difficult than getting a door open and shorting the ignition.(Although Jan's car may have a mechanical igntion lock. Mine doesn't !) It is surprising that so many of the cars you service have their batteries flattened by faulty (leaking) electrical equipment. This shouldn't happen and could be dangerous if allowed to continue. Apart from the small current drawn by clocks, radio standby circuits or alarms there should be no other battery drain. If a near new battery battery will not start a car after a couple of months non-use, the cause should be investigated. Occasionally boot or under-bonnet lamps can be switched on by faulty switches and can flatten a battery in a few days. Can I suggest that the next time you fit one of your isolator switches you check what the standby current is, I suspect it will be less than 10 mA. I still believe that most cases of middle-aged batteries going flat in a few weeks are due to internal discharge. My comment about the use of trickle chargers included the proviso that they be voltage and current limited which is probably what you call a maintenance charger. | ||
| Laurie Fox Experienced User Username: laurie_fox Post Number: 32 Registered: 6-2004 |
Dear all Regarding battery performance and cold starts you might be interested to hear how I cope. The background is that both my wife and myself are now 92. Edna is now a housebound invalid and I look after her. Our MK VI is doing an invaluable job helping me with the shopping which only involves very short trips. So the mileage between the last two annual MOT tests was only just over 200. Shopping etc. is done about twice a week so we have about 100 or so "cold starts" a year. In fact they are not cold starts since the 250 watt block heater warms the coolant for about three hours beforehand and the coolant temerature is then about 30 deg.C above ambient. The battery is trickle charged at the same time and the result is instant starting (on the first or second turn of the crankshaft) with the choke returned to off immediately. The battery is now in its 8th year. Because the regulator is cold during these very short trips the charging rate is high (25 amp) and the voltmeter fitted to the charging plug on the dashboard reads 15 or slightly more before the current limiting brings it down. This short charging time may not be enough to keep the battery in good condition over several months and so, every three months or so, the trickle charger is set very low, at about 500 milliamps, and left on for a week to balance up the separate cells. The battery likes it, the engine likes it and so do I. Regards Laurie | ||
| Paul Yorke Prolific User Username: paul_yorke Post Number: 120 Registered: 6-2006 |
Hi John, I agree that it would act as a deterrent, but disagree that it was probably fitted for that reason. Anybody that knows Shadows and Spirits will have come across this problem, especially if it's taken or parked out in the wet. New battery or old. There are many mods that have been suggested to alleviate the problem ( Re-wiring all the window motors etc ) but a cut off switch is the cheapest, easiest and quickest one. Thank you for the suggestions but many cars were checked and all the usual suspects and many more unusual ones were Tested. We were surprised at how quickly they go flat - and even more surprised at the Shadow II's. We were NOT surprised when the switch was fitted as standard on the Spirits though! ( From memory, I think the only country that didn't get them were ones made for Germany - We wondered if this was due to German vehicle laws or just spite! lol. ) If you think for a moment about your belief that it is internal discharge that is the problem , it wouldn't matter if the switch was on or off, or a switch was fitted or indeed if the battery was kept under your bed . . . it would still go flat. On a security note, do you know if your boot lock has been modified? Single slot locking pawl or the 'snow flake' wheel? Laurie, the water heaters are indeed great items, in every way! You and your Bentley are lucky to have each other! Best Regards, Paul. | ||
| Patrick Lockyer. Grand Master Username: pat_lockyer Post Number: 748 Registered: 9-2004 |
The Shadows were rarely never a car to nick. They were broken into in the UK for items left on show. My shadow 1 has had the boot catch modiefied. I was shown that without the mod it could be opened in seconds! The front doors can be opened in seconds as well and have seen it carried out. Many have suffered loom,brake fluid,petrol fires. The batterys last 4-5 + years with an isolator switch fitted. The real reason for fitment. Without you are lucky to get two years even with all the diodes in working order. Well the thread has gone off track so quick mention on the slow LPG progress update. Mixers are made and drilled to fit the carbs,Useing 1/8th holes for the carb air bleeds instead of 1/4 hole size. Next is the removal of the twin vaporizors are then the fitment of the single twin diaphram unit. Pictures if to follow if needed. I was saddened to hear to-day that the Shadow numbers in and around London are fast declining. Many folk it seems are running them till problems occure then park them up to die. | ||
| Patrick Lockyer. Grand Master Username: pat_lockyer Post Number: 749 Registered: 9-2004 |
John K just read your bit on the amp's "Monitor the ammeter and when the charging rate drops to a couple of amps it's OK". With a failing battery the amps will drop back quickly and will not be good. In a duff battery failing mode it will not take a long high charge. Volts testing is far better and will always show up slipping belts and much much more. | ||
| John Kilkenny Frequent User Username: john_kilkenny Post Number: 57 Registered: 6-2005 |
Paul, I still find it hard to believe that Shadows and Spirits generally suffer from this problem which doesn't seem to be shared by other makes. I only have one car to check but when I disconnect the clock and radio there is zero leakage. Because many cars are used infrequently an owner may underestimate the period of non-use, and if the car has only done short trips the battery may gradually lose charge. You are in a good position to do some research on this, on the cars you see. With all equipment switched off, remove the battery positive lead and insert an ammeter (after disconnecting the boot lamp) to read the standby current. A digital multimeter with a 500 mA range would be fine. I would be interested to know the results if other forum members could do this test on their cars. Standby current should only be a few milliamps. Anything more should be investigated. Regarding the boot lock, my car (SRH1405) has not been modified. Laurie, You are obviously doing the right thing by your eight-year-old battery ! Patrick, My comment was a simple procedure for a battery in reasonable condition. John | ||
| Paul Yorke Prolific User Username: paul_yorke Post Number: 121 Registered: 6-2006 |
Hi John, "You are in a good position to do some research on this, on the cars you see." It's been done. It's a fact that you can not leave 70's and later Rolls-Royces or Bentleys for months without the battery going flat. It's a fact that a battery cut off switch (or disconnecting the earth lead at the butterfly bolt which is standard factory fitting ) alleviates this problem. From your chassis number you are lucky enough to have a very early car with I'm guessing - a dynamo, a starter solenoid, square window motors, no CDL. No climate control etc. Much less chance of a voltage leak. I'll PM you about the boot lock if that's OK. Has anybody seen a LPG gas conversion kit manufacturer called LONGAS? I'm looking for a wiring diagram . | ||
| John Kilkenny Frequent User Username: john_kilkenny Post Number: 58 Registered: 6-2005 |
Paul, I don't doubt your statement about the batteries going flat after a couple of months non-use, however I would be interested to know the amount of leakage current that contributes to this. I am still surprised that the company couldn't identify the problem and fix it over several years.Perhaps they assumed the cars would be used frequently and any leakage wouldn't matter, though in that case why add an isolating switch, with the annoyance of having to re-set clocks and radio stations. By the way, you are fairly accurate about my car, except that it has an alternator due to being fitted with air conditioning (Non-aircon cars had the dynamo). I would appreciate details on the boot lock. John | ||
| Paul Yorke Prolific User Username: paul_yorke Post Number: 124 Registered: 6-2006 |
John, I don't doubt your statement about the batteries going flat after a couple of months non-use, Weeks not months. That's the problem! lol I can see it's all clicking into place now John. It would have cost fortunes to change all the small but numerous current drains. Perhaps all the R-R test cars were kept in the dry? Butterfly bolts were fitted to Shadows. Spirits got a posh switch! Problem Sorted! lol. Simple, cheap & effective. Many of my customers found it fiddly and a chore undoing and refitting the butterfly bolts - often in the dark of a garage or in the rain - so I offered battery switches. Quick, clean and easy! I still fit them to new clients cars. If I ever went out to jump start a car in a customers garage, I'd take a switch and earth lead with me and fit it while I was there. Not as profitable as going out on a brake down every couple of months . . . but better for the clients. Maybe members with more time on their hands will give you figures from the field  | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 1344 Registered: 4-2003 |
I just started my Turbo R tonight for the first time since November. I had forgotten to isolate the battery with that brilliant isolator switch. No problem, it opened on the remote control and started as if a lunch break were just over. I changed the battery last when it suddenly went completely dead embarassingly onboard the Euroshuttle on restarting to exit at Calais in year 2000. That indicated a fractured cell plate and not current drain. Usually, if a modern battery goes low and complains after several months of disuse on our cars, then an alternator diode is leaky and the stack needs replacing. The last battery I replaced on my R-Type, garaged in Canberra, was in 1990. My dad gives it a trickle charge every 4 months or so for good measure, and it starts on the button for its Keep-Me-Running exercises while I am away. RT. | ||
| Patrick Lockyer. Grand Master Username: pat_lockyer Post Number: 751 Registered: 9-2004 |
Well done RT I have just won my wager with the lads. I bet them that a Turbo R will make it to the Shadow thread. I forgot the R Type though. Regarding the Turbo R you may have partial fault, something not working,pity the car had not been laid up for one or more extra months to confirm! (Message edited by pat lockyer on 07 February 2008) |
