| Author | Message | ||
     Koby Millo New User Username: kobym Post Number: 3 Registered: 7-2011 |
Hi, While working with a friend on the brake system of his 76 Silver Shadow, we discovered that most of the rigid pipes going to the rear wheels are rusted and needed to be replaced. I am referring to the pipes above the rear cross-member, which are going in-and-out of 4 junction blocks. As far as we saw, the only way to get them out and replace them is by taking the whole cross member out, which is a very big task. Is it the only way to do it? We had an idea to cut an opening in the sheet-metal below the rear seat, which we think would give good access to the whole thing, and closing it later with a decent cover. Is it something we can consider? Any advice would be highly appreciated. Kind regards, Koby | ||
| Nigel Johnson Frequent User Username: nigel_johnson Post Number: 71 Registered: 12-2008 |
Hi Koby.I think cutting up the panelwork is a bit drastic! The pipes to the rear brakes do tend to suffer. But I'm surprised the others are in such a bad state. Please, have a closer look and report back. | ||
| Chris Browne Frequent User Username: chrisb Post Number: 85 Registered: 2-2010 |
Hello Koby, I, too, think that cutting holes in the floor is asking for trouble. I understand your difficulty because most of the rigid hydraulic pipes were fitted under the floor of the body shell before the subframes and running gear were fitted at the factory.  My advice to you is to carefully study the routes of the damaged pipes and try to draw up a plan of attack whereby you remove one complete pipe at a time so that you have a pattern and can, at least, cut the new pipes to the same length. It will be quite a job but if you break down the work into manageable pieces, it will not be so daunting. If you try to obtain replacement piping which is reasonable flexible but which MUST be capable of holding the high pressures generated by the system, you should be able to fight the new pipes into position. Good luck and kind regards, Chris | ||
| Nigel Johnson Frequent User Username: nigel_johnson Post Number: 72 Registered: 12-2008 |
Marvellous photo Chris.That looks to be quite an early layout with the bleed nipples on the inner sill. Regards Nigel. | ||
| Chris Browne Frequent User Username: chrisb Post Number: 86 Registered: 2-2010 |
Hello Nigel, Yes, an early example but the only photo I have ever seen of the pipework under the floor before the running gear was fitted. I thought it would illustrate how simple the system is to work on!! Kind regards,. Chris | ||
| Nigel Johnson Frequent User Username: nigel_johnson Post Number: 73 Registered: 12-2008 |
Lol.A sence of humour helps when working on our cars. Regards, Nigel. | ||
| Michael Hicks Experienced User Username: bentleyman22 Post Number: 34 Registered: 12-2011 |
Hi to you all I look around and see cars that have been bodged and people complaining I look at Forums where people say they have taken there car to the man down the road and he has done this to it or that to it to get it running cheaply On the front of the cars we have a Badge that badge is suppose to be a mark of excellence It is the reason for why we have the cars and lavish time and money on them Not for a Nutter to cut chunks out of it or find some bodge to save time and money Is this the way we want the Mark to go ? Michael | ||
| Jan Forrest Grand Master Username: got_one Post Number: 332 Registered: 1-2008 |
I'm very surprised that any of the rigid pipes could be rusty. I was given to believe that Crewe made all of them from "Cunifer 10" which is mostly copper with just a smidgeon of iron and nickel to make them more pliable and less prone to stress fractures while being moulded to shape. Certainly all them are the original fitment on my '76 Shadow and the only ones I've had to replace are the short ones at the calipers. Even then it was only due to the steel unions rusting and twisting the pipes as I removed them when I overhauled the system last year. As it's available in a variety of diameters there will be one to fit both sizes of hydraulic pipes on any RR/B and mild or stainless unions can be obtained in both metric and Imperial threads to complete the job. Any of them will be more than adequate for the pressures they will encounter in service. For certain the previous advice is good about removing the old ones first so you can approximate the shape and length before trying to replace the pipes. Then you can look at maybe rerouting them in more accessible positions along with all the necessary new clips to hold them in place (just don't tell the concours judges what you've done or they'll mark you down for it!). | ||
| Brian Vogel Frequent User Username: guyslp Post Number: 66 Registered: 6-2009 |
The pipework on my '78 SS-II, European spec, certainly is not cunifer (aka EZ-Bend or any of several other trade names) but is good, old fashioned mild steel tubing. Some areas have had some relatively light surface rust but nothing that a bit of rust stabilizer (e.g. Ospho) and the addition of undercoating would not cure for a very long period of time. The tubing on my 79 SW-II also appears to be entirely of mild steel. Unless this piping is truly rusted to bits or leaking I wouldn't try to go the replacement route first. If replacement is necessary, I would definitely go with cunifer tubing. The stuff is great to work with compared to mild steel and does not rust. Whoever it was that did the RHD to LHD conversion on my SS-II used cunifer when moving the rat trap and it still looks great all these years later. There are several sections of original line that are non-functional that were left where they had been placed originally since it was easier to create the necessary routing with the cunifer tubing and there was really no point in removing the original Bundy tubing. | ||
| Hubert Kelly New User Username: h_kelly Post Number: 5 Registered: 3-2012 |
Hi Koby, I changed all the metal pipes on my 1968 RR Silver Shadow last year. Originally an Australian car, from Melbourne old reg (ODE 193). Yes, the difficult part was the cross member.I spoke with a guy who had previously tackled the same job. reluctantly I took his advice, cut out two square pieces under rear passenger seat above the cross member approx. 3inch by 3 inch.If carrying this out, care should be taken to cut in correct area. Even with the two floor holes, it was still a difficult and time consuming job.The most difficult part I found, was tracing each pipe and try to keep the double "u" shape, (the group of pipes took) over and down the cross member. looking back I don't even thing about, having cut the floor, just relaxed in knowing, the lines (copper nickel)are done for my life time. I am sure their is several ways of doing this job...I had thought of lowering the cross member, thankfully I didn't. HK | ||
| Carl Heydon Experienced User Username: car Post Number: 28 Registered: 2-2004 |
Think of all the other stuff to 'make nice' while the subframes are out. Having removed these from SBH 4346 I can assure you it's a very big job but not as big as thinking about it beforehand! Bite the bullet and do it as well as possible. | ||
| Koby Millo New User Username: kobym Post Number: 4 Registered: 7-2011 |
Thank you all for the comments and advice. As far as I understand, there is no “magical” way to do it other than taking the cross member out, or cutting holes. The car is not going to be restored to concourse level, and taking the whole cross member out is a job we want to avoid. So, I think we will take the "2 square holes" approach... The fact that this approach was done in the past by Hubert and others is reassuring. Thanks again, and any other advice on this matter would be appreciated. Regards, Koby | ||
| Omar M. Shams Prolific User Username: omar Post Number: 243 Registered: 4-2009 |
Dear Koby, Before you cut - STOP. See if you can run new pipes using a different routing and leave the old ones in place. If there is space you can get the job done without cutting holes. Thanks Omar | ||
| Michael Hicks Experienced User Username: bentleyman22 Post Number: 35 Registered: 12-2011 |
I am just amazed the you all seem happy cutting cars up why don't you do the Job right and take pride in your work or is it normal | ||
| Hubert Kelly New User Username: h_kelly Post Number: 6 Registered: 3-2012 |
Koby, my above message was what I actually did. That's not to say its for you. I am just a regular guy who has lovingly maintained the old girl to the best of my ability with the help of this site. I agree if you can find another way to do this job go for it. HK | ||
| Nigel Johnson Frequent User Username: nigel_johnson Post Number: 74 Registered: 12-2008 |
With respect Koby the only very rusty pipes I have seen are at the end of runs to the calipers. Those in the crossmember area are very well protected from the elements. The bundy tubing can withstand surface rust and its safety still not be impaired. Please get a second opinion. The flexible pipework is another matter. These should be replaced every six to eight years. Kindest regards, Nigel. | ||
| Jan Forrest Grand Master Username: got_one Post Number: 334 Registered: 1-2008 |
I'm reminded of an Audi 100 Estate I owned several years ago. Having self levelling rear suspension there was a bewildering array of hydraulic pipes of varying diameters over and around the rear axle, all of which were showing signs of corrosion. The tester commented that they were "OK for now, but will require renewing for the next test.". So I set to with various chemicals (including phosphoric acid) to stabilise them in their current condition. The car sailed through the next 3 annual tests with exactly the same 'advisory'! |
