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Dr Popper
Yet to post message
Username: drpopper

Post Number: 1
Registered: 12-2008
Posted on Wednesday, 10 December, 2008 - 08:42:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I am a first time buyer currently researching my first RR purchase and I've currently narrowed it down to 3 cars and I'd like to get some experts opinions as to which of them would be best for my situation.
I currently drive only 5000 kms a year and would be using this car as a daily driver.

The first car I am looking at is a 1995 RR Flying Spur with 55k's on the clock. The car is in reasonable condition however it was not driven for 5 years so needs brake and suspension work. and the interior needs refinishing.

The second car is a 1997 Silver Spirit IV (non turbo) this car is perfect mechanically and cosmetically and has 66k's.

The Third car is another 1997 non turbo but a Silver Spur it has 93k's and has a more worn interior but again is mechanically sound.

All these cars are around the same price and obviously the Flying Spur is the most appealing on paper however the car needs work and its confusing me about what direction I should go in.

Any insights or opinions would be most helpful.
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StevenBrown
Experienced User
Username: stevenbrown

Post Number: 29
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Wednesday, 10 December, 2008 - 17:38:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Tough to say which would be better. Herd and follow this about every collectible (expensive) car: "buy the best you can afford!" That is not necessarily the higher priced version. When I bought my Spur, was looking at a newer more expensive one. Decided the older was better paint and interior condition, service records more complete. Id chose between the second and third, final factor being which has the more up to date service history.
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Dr Popper
New User
Username: drpopper

Post Number: 2
Registered: 12-2008
Posted on Wednesday, 10 December, 2008 - 18:28:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Well either of the 1997 cars would be the better if service history and condition were the main point but the rarity of the Flying Spur appeals to me more.
The problem has been the Flying Spur has been sitting in a garage and not driven for 3 + years until recently and the seals have deteriorated and it needs significant work compared to the other cars.
I guess my question can be summed up as is the rarity of the Flying Spur worth the extra pain?
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Craig Knight
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Username: grum_ck

Post Number: 6
Registered: 9-2007
Posted on Wednesday, 10 December, 2008 - 20:48:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

It would probably depend on how much of the work you were planning to do yourself (and if you enjoy working on cars) as to the worth of the flying spur. If you are looking to do work yourself, you have a great resource in this site (and the people behind it). But if you are planning on putting it into the garage to get the work done, expect the bills to rack up quickly. Is there much of a price difference between the options you are looking at?

As a side point, would you be interested in a Bentley (’97 Turbo R) instead?
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Dr Popper
New User
Username: drpopper

Post Number: 3
Registered: 12-2008
Posted on Wednesday, 10 December, 2008 - 21:38:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Yes I can assure you that I'm under no illusions at to the cost of the Flying Spur's needs (25-35K).
The cost of the cars is essentially identical except that the Flying Spur would end up being about 15-20k more expensive AFTER all the work was done. I'm still unsure if that's a reasonable premium to pay or not.
As to the Turbo R I might be interested as I do have a Bentley on my shopping list for the near future but I'd been thinking of a Arnage R or T or a Continental R etc I had not really considered a Turbo R.
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Craig Knight
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Username: grum_ck

Post Number: 7
Registered: 9-2007
Posted on Wednesday, 10 December, 2008 - 23:18:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

One of each is always a good plan…
The Turbo R is more of a substitute option for a Silver/Flying Spur or Silver Spirit (again, without the rarity of the Flying Spur, but with the performance).

I only mentioned it because I have just shipped my Turbo R back to Melbourne, I was planning to come back home (from London) to avoid another northern winter, but due to a combination of work and personal reasons, it seems I will be staying here for some time… In which case my option is to sell the Turbo R (rather than have it sit and deteriorate) and hopefully buy something to enjoy over here (like a Continental R or possibly an Arnage as you say). I would prefer the Conti R, but I’ll be getting married over here next year, and my fiancée would prefer a 4 door (another Turbo R or Arnage) for the wedding.

It’s hard to say with these models because so few are on the market (and large differences in condition), but I would think the value of a Flying Spur would be well worth $15k more than an “equivalent” Silver Spur… assuming doing the works you have budgeted for brings it up to the standard of the other two.

These are always very difficult decisions, with the heart wreaking havoc on the head.
Good luck.
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StevenBrown
Experienced User
Username: stevenbrown

Post Number: 30
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Thursday, 11 December, 2008 - 06:10:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Ah, another who dislikes winter, but business has them spending extra time in cold damp places!

Rare, but not enough to justify the added expense to make the flying spur enjoyable. Id go for it if doing mechanics myself. From going by whats written, reads like needs enough to be a potential nightmare. Not a good example to be introduced into marque ownership. The known repairs and gremlins that always seem to come in a sitting rarely used vehicle. Would have me leaning towards the second choice on paper.

My only regret is I should have gone Turbo or Conti R first, then Spur and onto Corniche, eventually also want a Shadow. But I'm also not looking for a daily driver, more a collection of the models I like and want to use. You can't really base these decisions on rarity and future value's collector status . More what you like and want out of ownership. A relatively trouble free nice daily driver, then number two seems to be the best bet.
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Craig Knight
New User
Username: grum_ck

Post Number: 9
Registered: 9-2007
Posted on Friday, 12 December, 2008 - 01:09:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Good point, as there are so many factors, there is not really such thing as an “equivalent” car… The problem with cars that have sat for long periods is you can budget to fix what you can find wrong, but from all accounts it is likely that further things will crop up once you start driving it regularly.

That’s why my plan is now to sell my Turbo R, even though it’s a tough decision as it’s my first Bentley (or Royce) – when I’m rich and famous I will have to hunt it down and buy it back to add to my collection ;-)
But I don’t want it to sit for a year (or longer as these things go) and come back to a problem car… as could happen.
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Richard Treacy
Grand Master
Username: richard_treacy

Post Number: 1531
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Friday, 12 December, 2008 - 06:10:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Just a geeky note: for a start, as all flexible hoses and all calliper seals are scheduled to be replaced every D-service at around every 6 years, does all the above really matter ? Even on a car which checks out superbly, those bits need to be done sooner rather than later. Every car is sold for a reason. Do weigh up what needs to be done which shouldn’t need doing against what will need to be done in every case. A rough gem may just turn out to be the best after a routine polish.

Better concentrate on the motor, suspension, electrics and final drive, not forgetting the darned plain obvious cosmetics and rust. Even a transmission overhaul is a trivial cost on every SZ, 4L80Es included. If you go for Avon tyres, a transmission overhaul costs the same as just one Avon bag. Try out the cost of an airbag service or a new catalytic converter.

One fellow I know in the UK just spent A$16,000 for a new front catalytic pre-converter and a C-service. The catalytic converter replacement portion was A$12,000. A failed cat is almost unheard of, and not exactly a sign of neglect. Thank goodness, the other two cats are still fine. A car may check out 100% and need a new cat at any unexpected time. This is not just a Crewe Thing, but can happen just as randomly on your BMW or Lexus.

application/pdf
serviceschedules.pdf (85.4 k)
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Bill Coburn
Moderator
Username: bill_coburn

Post Number: 1044
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Friday, 12 December, 2008 - 08:12:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Update Richard! A mate in Sydney with a '94 Turbo has just had his transmission replaced - $11000 !!!!!!!! He refers to it as an 'electronic' box. I had thought the only 'electric' bits were solenoids to move the various valves. Is there more as Oliver said???
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StevenBrown
Experienced User
Username: stevenbrown

Post Number: 31
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Friday, 12 December, 2008 - 12:37:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I agree with RT. One of the reasons I like having service history usually makes for less needed repairs. No service records, makes me a little more skeptical. Advantage of living in the U.S or America Jr. (Canada) as well; lots of transmission shops well versed in GM. Its better to take the transmission out and either ship or bring it to them in a beat up pick up truck. Show up in a RR/B, well things suddenly get expensive.

On my Spur I plan on doing the scheduled D service listed in RT pdf link. Estimates done at authorized main agent dealer was $12,500. Two independent shops also made a list for around $9,000 and both pointed out the same items as the main agent. Mine was a one owner Southern California car before me, so the estimates even had rear shelf seat belt cover replacement. One is sort of sun damaged and pulling a little bit. And replace tires, which I've already done separately. Had one of the indi shops, prepare a list of least to critical items. Besides open check book, thats the second best way to own a car. Service critical items and put off little nit picking until they get to critical. A good service history should mean less critical items need attention.

When still a teen, parents purchased in 1989 a BMW 325ix (all wheel drive) as a third, us kids mostly vehicle. All wheel drive because we are snow skiers. Parents more my Dad, had this car serviced at the main BMW dealer and we followed every scheduled service exactly as recommended. BMW like Royce/Bentley has a simular service schedule scheme. My older and younger brothers and myself used this car in high school. Teen males who all took this car off road and played rally driver with it. In other words we drove it like we stole it! Besides learning I was highly spoiled growing up. This car I ended up with it and used for winters until 1998. At the time had over 400,000 kilometers on the odometer. It lasted because of following scheduled service. The day she died, was my fault because decided to put off and then forgot the recommended timing belt service! It broke. Car died. Second the more history of service usually helps makes a car last forever. Not into playing off road rally driver anymore and certainly not in a Crewe product. But do tend to travel a little more spirited than others on the highway! Hence why I really should have a Turbo R............... A good service history does however makes for less likely chances of those surprises.
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Dr Popper
New User
Username: drpopper

Post Number: 4
Registered: 12-2008
Posted on Friday, 12 December, 2008 - 16:04:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I know I'm insane but I'm thinking of buying them both

Nothing exceeds like excess
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Brian Crump
Experienced User
Username: brian_crump

Post Number: 32
Registered: 2-2007
Posted on Friday, 12 December, 2008 - 18:02:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I know I'm insane but I'm thinking of buying them both
Nothing exceeds like excess.
To me that sounds like a most sensible move.
Enjoy!!
Regards,
Brian Crump
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Dr Popper
New User
Username: drpopper

Post Number: 5
Registered: 12-2008
Posted on Saturday, 13 December, 2008 - 11:44:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hopefully if my offer goes through as I expect on Monday I shall be the owner of a Rolls Royce Flying Spur. I guess I might be driving it in February after Robert Chapman gets through with it.
Needless to say I'm excited to be beginning the journey.

I'm still sitting on the fence about a "Daily driver" car. There is a Arnage T available that is growing on my mind that would be a excellent replacement for my S500 that I currently drive.