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Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov
Experienced User
Username: soviet

Post Number: 50
Registered: 2-2013
Posted on Thursday, 25 December, 2014 - 21:38:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hello Chaps, as the title says I always like a giggle. Being a Camargue owner I am expected to be off the wall and totally unorthodox and of course I am. Now I troll the internet looking for an answer as to what some cars are really worth especially RR/B but also Cadillac and Jaguar and even Zil. I often look at a certain website of a certain dealer in New York. I actually bought JRH 23682 from this dealer. Naturally, I won't mention the name of the dealer but I think if you crank Google enough somehow his website will reveal itself. A word of warning -don't buy a thing from him unless you actually go to the big apple and look for yourself as when he says the car is complete, he actually has shown to me that he means it's incomplete.ie The Camargue arrived missing a rocker/cover and the radiator and I am certain other missing bits will be discovered as I proceed in the partial restoration required to get the car back on the road. Of course, I am not complaining about the deal because I am certain I got the best of him in the end and I got value for money regardless of his fibs. As a businessman he obviously has done quite well from the wood duck buyers. Indeed his prices have risen substantially over the past 4 years especially. What I am about to tell you may make some of you run to the nearest bucket for a bit of a technicolor yawn. Indeed I think its worth looking at his website just so see what hideous cars he has to advertise especially given the prices. Yes chaps, you have to see this car with your own eyes. Take a RR S2 for the purist or in my own gravel yap a Rolls Royce Silver Cloud II. Now pretty much all of us know what the front of it should look like. Are you with me? It is a grand looking front though I prefer the front of the Cloud III. A thoroughly twisted panel beater grafted onto the car the headlight assemblies of a Silver Shadow. Yes indeedy. I have little doubt that whoever he was he must have been paid if not in large amounts of cash then in a cyclonic blast of scallyway laughter. If your Xmas roasted chicken could see the thing it would leap off the table and sprint through the front door screaming like a demented banshee. But that's not all. Apart from the interior being quite trashed the dealer had the audacity to put up a picture of the engine bay and there lies within nothing but a donk obviously not in running order but something looking like a small block American V8 - perhaps a wayward Chev. At a fraction under $30,000 USD chaps the car is yours.
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Brian Vogel
Grand Master
Username: guyslp

Post Number: 1152
Registered: 6-2009
Posted on Friday, 26 December, 2014 - 01:40:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Vladimir,

I imagine there are some here who may be unaware of Peter Kumar and Gullwing Motor Cars of Astoria, NY, but it's always amusing to occasionally take a look at his inventory and prices.

The Shadow headlamps on that SC-II, which appear to have been done at least relatively well, are probably the least of the indignities it appears to have suffered.

Brian, having my coffee on a relatively warm (44° F/7° C) Christmas morning
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Geoff Wootton
Grand Master
Username: dounraey

Post Number: 576
Registered: 5-2012
Posted on Friday, 26 December, 2014 - 02:18:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Cannot believe he is asking 30k for that. At least the pictures are honest. I once drove 200 miles to view a Wraith II on sale for 15K. The pics looked good so was worth a look at the price. When I saw the car there was a large tear across the front of the roof. It made me wonder if the pics had been photoshopped. At 15k I was prepared to replace the roof material. However, the test drive revealed the brakes were completely shot. Dangerous in fact. The car seemed to have rear wheel steering and the engine ran with the sound of breaking glass. I'd never heard that noise before but can only think the hydraulic lifters where running dry. So, in defense of this guy, at least he is giving an honest showing of the car.

Geoff - who has been left on his lonesome this Christmas week, to look after the cat. (of the small furry variety)
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Bill Coburn
Moderator
Username: bill_coburn

Post Number: 1546
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Friday, 26 December, 2014 - 07:20:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

There must be a psychology Honours graduate looking for a subject for his Doctorate. Your collective observations and examples would certainly be grist for his mill!

I developed this fetish for Rolls-Royce cars when I was 14, the age for most nubile youths to get serious about self abuse. I did just that but distracted myself by avid admiration of and curiosity about these products, which in over 60 years I realise has been of no benefit to me whatsoever.

But still I do it; the examples you offer here, clearly the outpourings of either a slightly demented enthusiast or a last ditch stand opportunist, still attract our attention! I occasionally publish photos of wrecked Rolls which vaguely suggest to me images of disembowlled religious enthusiasts who have apparently offended the local status quo! A quite noticeable percentage of owners take umbrage at this (the cars not the bowells) and admonish me for being so insensitive. The problem here is forgetting the much-touted observation that 'well it is only a car'.

The New York Phantom V and indeed the Cloud III with the strange engine are examples of someone with surely a lot of determination, endeavouring to delay the coup-de-grace of the wreckers hammer. Yet the stockist presumably sells these examples which limp along until they die in a quiet paddock. Overall such examples and thousands of others of the Marque will have given many people some masochistic pleasure or a short trip with Walter Mitty.
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Bob UK
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 94.197.122.91
Posted on Friday, 26 December, 2014 - 06:41:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

The cloud 2 doesn't look bad and a person totally new to clouds wouldn't know. This is a pointless modification no doubt done years ago to make the car newer than it is. The extra light output could have been easily achieved with say cibie spot lamps. As to the value I wouldn't buy it because it's been barstardised, which is an official engineering term.

I hate the 0 miles and when one picks a car then eventually the mileage declared. The guy thinks build the car up first then causally mention the miles. I prefer a dealer to say there it is 50k miles and 15k to buy from the outset. It saves a lot of time.

Time for mince pies and custard.}

(Message approved by david_gore)
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Bill Coburn
Moderator
Username: bill_coburn

Post Number: 1549
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Friday, 26 December, 2014 - 12:45:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Bob/ I still think that car was an SIII not an SII. The latter did not have a model insignia on the boot. Picky I know but now I have had one eye de-catarracted I can read fairly well!
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Bob UK
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 94.197.122.81
Posted on Saturday, 27 December, 2014 - 03:23:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I thought it was a 2 modified to a 3 the clouds are familiar to me only in shape. But from underneath in the oily bits I see more. Also the car looks flat sided. The photo is maybe adjusted.

(Message approved by david_gore)
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Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov
Frequent User
Username: soviet

Post Number: 58
Registered: 2-2013
Posted on Sunday, 04 January, 2015 - 14:02:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Well I thought the car looked bloody horrible and the person responsible should have been lead away on a rusty chain, flogged like the family mule, shot Soviet style, buried upside down and then struck from the book of life.
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Jan Forrest
Grand Master
Username: got_one

Post Number: 726
Registered: 1-2008
Posted on Monday, 05 January, 2015 - 00:51:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

What makes an old car desirable and/or worth more than many new ones?

1) Styling. Since the introduction of the 'jelly mould' Ford Sierra most cars are virtually indistinguishable from each other. Way back you could identify at least the make, if not model and year, with a glance.

2) Rarity. It's been guesstimated that the vast majority of all RR/B models made (particularly from the 50's, 60's and 70's) are still roadworthy. Compare that with the equally stylish Rovers or Jags of the same era and the differences are quite staggering. Only the Shadows reached figures in the 10's of K, while the 'lesser' Rovers and Jags were made in the millions.

Fast forward to the 21st century and it's the RR/B's that have the advantage of numbers. Why? Most owners are happy to almost bankrupt themselves to keep their RR/B's in, if not showroom condition, then at least pristine running order. Who gets the value of all this investment? Mostly the next poor sap who has to do the same. But at least we continue to maintain our motoring heritage!
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Bob UK
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 94.197.122.84
Posted on Monday, 05 January, 2015 - 05:01:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

I think that rarity is not a good reason for liking and buying a car.
The reason for the high mortality rate for Jaguars is that they are so cheap used. I paid £100 for a rough XJ6 in 1988, got it going and Mot and sold it for £1000 3 months later. I made £300 profit.
probably that car lasted a couple of years then scrapped.

A 1O year old XJ is worth £8000. At that price it doesn't take much going wrong for it to be scrap.
A local Jag dealer has a 15 year old V8 jag with bent valves due to tensioner letting go. Nice looking car that will be broken up for parts. Shame.

(Message approved by david_gore)
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Jan Forrest
Grand Master
Username: got_one

Post Number: 728
Registered: 1-2008
Posted on Tuesday, 06 January, 2015 - 01:34:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Jags (drool) ... I've had so many. My favourites were the Mk2, S type, 420 and (top of the list) XJS V12.
Want to talk about 'whafting'? I took my mother and wife down the A1 at 120+ and neither noticed the warp factor even though they were normally nervous at anything over 60!

Once, on the M1, a cock in a Porsche objected to me overtaking a slower car at 70. I put the pedal to the metal and he simply disappeared from my rear view mirror. Never saw him again! I've even passed cops in Grandads (Ford Granada) on those perches at the side of the motorway at well over the ton. Did they try to follow and stop me? With another 40 ish mph still unused would you?
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Bob UK
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 94.197.122.81
Posted on Tuesday, 06 January, 2015 - 05:43:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

One must remember that drooling over Jags will only lead to heart break.
My favourite is the MK9 3.4 litre dohc.
The 3.4 XK engine is so smooth and will rev to 5500 std and 7000 with lots of expensive tunning.

If I had a ratty old Bentley Mk6 with a kippered engine, the Jag 3.4 is a bloody good option.

The 3.8 and 4.2 would also work but aren't so smooth.

A few years back a mate wreaked a 4.2 e type engine so he fitted a 3.4 and it's the best e type coupe I have driven. The rev make just as fast, short shift to 2nd gear and floor it and change to 3rd at 60 mph. Do that to a 4.2 and the engine won't last long. The E type owner is rebuilding a 4.2 engine, because he selling the car to finance the rebuild of a lotus Elan. Which has a snapped rear diff mounting, easy to fix once the body is off. I estimate 200 hours.

(Message approved by david_gore)
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Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov
Frequent User
Username: soviet

Post Number: 64
Registered: 2-2013
Posted on Wednesday, 07 January, 2015 - 17:18:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

You have to be kidding Bob, selling an E-type for the rebuild of a Lotus Elan? Is there something in the English water? That could lead to severe depression with the need to acquire a Prozac habit future down the track.
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Omar M. Shams
Grand Master
Username: omar

Post Number: 449
Registered: 4-2009
Posted on Thursday, 08 January, 2015 - 04:10:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

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David Gore
Moderator
Username: david_gore

Post Number: 1499
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Thursday, 08 January, 2015 - 07:48:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

IMHO the addition of the hardtop detracted from the svelte lines of the E-Type convertible. Certainly the hardtop made the car more appropriate for use as an everyday driver but the proportions are inappropriate for enhancing the appearance of the car.

I wonder what a good coach builder with an open mind and a generous budget could have achieved with a more sympathetic hard top. Whilst the style of the Camargue may not appeal to some traditional R-R owners, the proportions of the car are right reflecting the skill of the designers.
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Bob UK
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 94.197.122.92
Posted on Thursday, 08 January, 2015 - 09:26:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

The E type coupe he has is a sound car and will sell well. The Lotus Elan has nice mechanics but rough body. He is an ex-RAF mechanic and is very capable. He will spend £2k on the Elan and it will be a nice car. Most of the money will go on paint and powder coating the chassis.

Nothing goes round corners faster than an Elan except maybe a Lotus super seven. Elans are also very fast. 110bhp and 700kgs. The engine picks up very fast and is rev happy.
I have driven a good elan and it's a revelation, one thinks one is going too fast into a corner but after one realises that the car will go even faster.
The brakes are good as well 700kg to stop only.
Elans are just as unreliable as an E type.

Also E types aren't rare and there are plenty around. Elans are rare especially for £4000 which he paid.

(Message approved by david_gore)
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Randy Roberson
Grand Master
Username: wascator

Post Number: 348
Registered: 5-2009
Posted on Monday, 12 January, 2015 - 12:43:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

That car is terrible; yep that's a small-block Chevrolet engine in the underbonnet area.
Alas! He does not seem to have a Panhard Dyna Z at the moment...