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Chris Miller
Grand Master
Username: cjm51213

Post Number: 419
Registered: 5-2013
Posted on Saturday, 23 July, 2016 - 11:42:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Folks,

I have recently learned that the obvious sensor in the radiator tank is a level sensor, not a temperature sensor. Mine is labeled "Coolant" under the amber light on the dashboard and not "Temperature", so I'm inclined to believe this.

Since excessive heat will ruin the engine, I'm concerned and I want to monitor temperature closely. This raises the question where to monitor temperature and how best to accomplish this?

Thanks for the help,

Chris.
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Geoff Wootton
Grand Master
Username: dounraey

Post Number: 1314
Registered: 5-2012
Posted on Saturday, 23 July, 2016 - 12:18:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Chris

There is a small triangular plate on the side of the crankcase on my car (74 SY1 - SRX18501). I removed the plate and fitted my temp sender unit there. It is close to the cylinder liners so reads the hotter part of the engine. It's been great so far.

The red arrow points to the plate. Note you have to remove the U shaped air duct to the carb to even see it.

p1

Here's a pic of the plate off the car, drilled and threaded and fitted with the sender unit.

p2

Geoff
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Chris Miller
Grand Master
Username: cjm51213

Post Number: 421
Registered: 5-2013
Posted on Saturday, 23 July, 2016 - 12:42:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Brilliant! Can you tell me about your instrumentation? What do you have and where did you mount it?

Thanks for the help,

Chris.
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ross kowalski
Experienced User
Username: cdfpw

Post Number: 24
Registered: 11-2015
Posted on Saturday, 23 July, 2016 - 12:45:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Chris, does your car not have a temp gauge? My 70 does in addition to a coolant level light.

How hot is it where you are driving?

Chassis SRH 8824 has been running great in the heat. It has been 90+ a lot the last two weeks and even after getting off of the highway, the temp never climbs.

I even tested the gauge and sender because I thought it might be broken.

In my limited experience with RR this cooling system seems to have A lot of built in extra capacity.

This is despite the fact that I am running a very inefficient 70% antifreeze 30% h20 mixture.
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Christian S. Hansen
Grand Master
Username: enquiring_mind

Post Number: 324
Registered: 4-2015
Posted on Saturday, 23 July, 2016 - 13:47:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Chris...
Please tell us the year of your Shadow as that makes a difference in how things are set up. To answer your preliminary question, yes, "coolant" refers to the coolant level and is monitored by the sensor mounted in the top tank, but not the radiator. My understanding is that the typical coolant "temperature" sensing location is at the thermostat, either housing or output elbow. Earlier chassis, like my 1966 CRX2541, apparently have the temperatuare probe at the rear of one of the engine head banks in some much less accessible location, but also where the temperature is likely to be hotter in an engine without proper coolant flow...as I suspect is the case with mine. I have a never ending battle with temperature levels that I do not like and evidence indicates that the "theoretical extra capacity" that "should" be there is in fact not. Mine operates right at the upper end of that capacity such that the sightest load on the engine causes the temperature to rise on the gauge and then fall again once the load is removed...rather than staying constant as one would expect in a properly operating system with capacity to spare on such situations...indicating to me that it is operating right at the upper extreme of that "extra" capacity. I carry a infrared heat thermometer gun and when in doubt, check temperatures at the thermostat and radiator. Possibly your situation is similar. Get a heat gun and check your status.
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Geoff Wootton
Grand Master
Username: dounraey

Post Number: 1315
Registered: 5-2012
Posted on Saturday, 23 July, 2016 - 15:03:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Chris

I mounted my gauge in place of the defunct radio balance switch.

p4

If you are thinking of fitting a temp gauge it is really worth scanning through the following thread.

http://au.rrforums.net/forum/messages/17001/18164.html

There is a lot of good information from various contributors.

I used a standard 2 1/16" Auto Meter gauge (as I recall). If I were doing the job again I would probably use a smaller diameter gauge, as it would be less invasive.

In my view, it is really worth the effort of fitting a temperature gauge. The reassurance of knowing the engine temperature at all times more than compensates for the small loss of originality.

Geoff
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Patrick Ryan
Grand Master
Username: patrick_r

Post Number: 339
Registered: 4-2016
Posted on Saturday, 23 July, 2016 - 16:43:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

A really interesting thread gents.
Great reading.
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ross kowalski
Experienced User
Username: cdfpw

Post Number: 25
Registered: 11-2015
Posted on Saturday, 23 July, 2016 - 22:08:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Geoff the gauge install looks seemless. Now to pry off the cover and write smiths in there.

Chris. Your car is still running borderline hot?

Today is going to be 95F here today and I am going to be out and about in the RR.

I'm sure I don't have good batteries in my cheapo IR sensor, but I'll start the day by pulling some 2032's from something and then I can pull some numbers.

I'll post on that thread about overheating. Irony and Karma would dictate that today my car will go into nuclear melt down while driving on the highway.
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Chris Miller
Grand Master
Username: cjm51213

Post Number: 422
Registered: 5-2013
Posted on Wednesday, 27 July, 2016 - 03:11:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Hi Ross,

> "Your car is still running borderline hot?"

I don't know, and this is why I follow Geoff Wootton and I do what he does, because that is never the wrong decision. Heat will kill my engine and all I need to do is watch it and avoid it, so I want to install a temperature monitor.

> "does your car not have a temp gauge?"

Nope. We could have guessed this by the nature of my question... However, I have the '66 cadaver car, which *does* have a bona fide Smith's gauge, so that is good news, and I will see what I need to do to transplant that.

Thanks for the help,

Chris.
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Geoff Wootton
Grand Master
Username: dounraey

Post Number: 1322
Registered: 5-2012
Posted on Wednesday, 27 July, 2016 - 04:58:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Ross - It did occur to me to pry off the cover and write Smiths in there, but I am sure I would have destroyed the gauge in the process. Also my scrawl with a white pen would have been too unsightly. I do of course have the option to slot in a smiths gauge at a later date.

Chris - I can't recommend highly enough fitting a water temp gauge. I remember a year or so ago I was nearing home on a very hot day and the engine started to get real lumpy. I took a risk for the last couple of miles and got the car home. The misfiring could have been a symptom of over heating but in the event it turned out to be fuel vaporization. Nevertheless I did take a big risk. A temperature gauge would have told me immediately everything was ok. This is one of the reasons I fitted the gauge.

Once you have decided on what unit to use, there are two decisions to be made - where to mount the gauge and where to locate the sender.

Some owners mount the gauge lower, in the radio panel, but I preferred the higher position of the radio balance aperture. This makes it much easier to monitor the gauge whilst driving. Another option is to replace the less important Ammeter gauge with a water temp gauge. This is just a slot out/slot in operation, so is very simple, but it does mean you lose the ammeter. Smiths make a dual water temp/oil pressure gauge. What a pity it wasn't a water temp/ammeter gauge. That really would have made the job simple - just replace the ammeter and lose no monitoring capability.

The location of the sender unit will determine what temperature is read. My sender is close to the rear cylinder liners so I get a high reading. The series II sender units are located in the thermostat housing. Obviously the temperature there will be much lower. It really doesn't matter as it's the relative position of the needle each time you drive the car that's important. My car runs at around 206 - 208F. Last week it was 95F here and the gauge crept up over 210F. If I measure the thermostat housing with an IR gun I get 190F, so I'm quite relaxed even if the temp goes beyond 212F (although, not too far).

I will be interested to hear how you progress with your project and the method you use.

Geoff
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David Gore
Moderator
Username: david_gore

Post Number: 2135
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Wednesday, 27 July, 2016 - 09:01:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Regarding "rebranding" the gauge, some time ago one of our members suggested using Letraset rub on lettering as a means of getting neat and professional labelling against the alternative of trying to do it by hand.

http://www.letraset.com/shopcontent.asp?type=info-transfers
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ross kowalski
Experienced User
Username: cdfpw

Post Number: 44
Registered: 11-2015
Posted on Wednesday, 27 July, 2016 - 13:16:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

3M used to make a special photo transfer called InT which stood for Image 'n Transfer and you could make ANY design you wanted in a few stock colors.

My now wife made me a decal for a motorcycle gas tank which I left outside for years and the decal never degraded.

That was in the early 90's so there might be something better now.
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Patrick Ryan
Grand Master
Username: patrick_r

Post Number: 358
Registered: 4-2016
Posted on Wednesday, 27 July, 2016 - 14:45:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Gents,

I am sure this has been covered, but I have seen many Smiths gauges on the net and eBay.
Most were quite cheap.

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