| Author | Message | ||
     Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov Prolific User Username: soviet Post Number: 174 Registered: 2-2013 |
I am certain I am going mad. The crazy spelling of the English language and the fact that it is clearly upside down and back to front makes we wonder just how it got the be the number one language on the planet. That aside, I have noticed the older I get, the uglier the limos get. The President of America's car "the beast" is one limo in point. It looks down right stupid - far too high and narrow to be taken seriously. It would look better at a crushing plant. There are rumours on the net that the beast is like a Zil limo in that it is really not a car but a bomb capule on wheels. The rumour was that the CIA had stolen a Zil limo from the Soviet Embassy in Washington, disassembled it and found out it was a bomb proof capsule on wheels so they made their own version of it and I must say it as ugly a limo as you can get. I would have sacked the designer on the spot and had him beaten like the family mule. Six chickens could have come up with a nicer looking car. Perhaps the designer was Swedish, straight out of the Volvo design room circa 1970s. Probably, just a tale like the one that there is somebody at Crewe as we speak ready fly here and restore the Camargue for me but is just waiting for my call. Intelligence agencies are always up to unbelievable capers so it could be true, but really does anybody think the beast looks anywhere near as prestigious as a 1975 -or 1976 Cadillac or Lincoln limo. Some times shapes really annoy me. Like the TR7 Triumph. Triumph made some attractive cars and the TR7 to me is not one of them. Even with a whole bottle of vodka in me I would not say I would want to drive it or even be seen near it. I remember a Polish girl I was close to saying "But it a different shape" A Ukrainain boy was trying to sell it to me. "It's different all right" I said "its f***&^% horrid. He'll never sell it, he must of been really drunk when he bought it new and he'll never sell it, not even to a blindman" And he didn't it sat in a paddock lowered the realestate value and slowly rotten away - far too slowly. | ||
| Brian Vogel Grand Master Username: guyslp Post Number: 1253 Registered: 6-2009 |
V. Kirillov wrote:
No. And it doesn't look nearly as prestigious or beautiful as state landaulettes or convertible limousines, either. However, given the world we now live in, having a "rolling bomb-proof capsule" is what is required. Form is following function, and the function is far more critical than the form.
You're in the distinct minority there. This car was one of the earliest of the "flying wedge" shapes, and was quite popular. Of course, it was not a thing of beauty like the the Alfa Romeo Spider of the early 2000s. I remember having one of these pass me for the first time when I was on my post grad school bargain tour of Europe in 2001 and lamenting that these were never going to be sold in the United States. Brian | ||
| Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov Prolific User Username: soviet Post Number: 175 Registered: 2-2013 |
Zil Putin refused this Zil for his car going for a Mercedes instead. Not the prettiest thing but I would take it over the "beast" any day of the week.  | ||
| Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov Prolific User Username: soviet Post Number: 177 Registered: 2-2013 |
Heres is Yetsins Zil, also bomb proof and a snip at 1,040,000 pound stirling which is a bargain if you have just received a lobotomy and and won the lotto. For some bizarre reason there is unfortunely this insane belief in Russia that every body in the west is rich and has a very big swimming pool. I did have the chance to buy a reasonable Chaika that "belonged" to the head military man in Samara for $5,000 V8 twin four barrels but I was penniless on the streets of Russia in those days so a $1 bottle of vodka a day was more essential | ||
| Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov Prolific User Username: soviet Post Number: 178 Registered: 2-2013 |
Sorry the upload button is working but failing to proceed - stay tuned | ||
| Brian Vogel Grand Master Username: guyslp Post Number: 1254 Registered: 6-2009 |
Sorry, but I'll take The Beast over that Zil any day of the week:  A few interesting facts on The Beast can be found on this webpage and wikipedia. Additional tidbits on The Beast and the next generation presidential limo can be found in an article in The Huffington Post from earlier this month. Brian | ||
| Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov Prolific User Username: soviet Post Number: 179 Registered: 2-2013 |
Brian must be patriotism on your part, the beast is without doubt a truly ugly item. To compare it with a 1976 Cadillac Fleetwood Limo is - is well so far beyond my range of adjectives that I am lost for words. It looks like noddy's car stretched out. It is appropriately named though because I am surrounded hundreds of thousands of beasts with horns and none of them are as ugly as that car. I can't look at the side of it for long without reaching for a bucket. Not even Mongo from Blazing saddles would swap his beast to ride in that. It was surely a North Korean who designed it. If it was 1976 now and you put the beast next to a 1976 Fleetwood Limo it would be laughable. I can't believe you think the beast design should have ever seen the light of day. But different strokes for different folks Brian at least you like the shape of the Shadow so I can't criticise your taste too much and I defend you right to love the shape a car that is infinitely ugly to me and hope the feeling is mutual. PS Here's a tip, don't trade your shadow on the beast, because the beast is sure to go the way of the dodo which had to be the inspiration for its shape | ||
| Brian Vogel Grand Master Username: guyslp Post Number: 1255 Registered: 6-2009 |
V, Don't put words into my mouth. I never said that the aesthetics of The Beast are in any way superior to a 1976 Fleetwood limousine (though I preferred the 1972 better). I simply said it looks better than the Zil you'd posted a photo of, which looks like a huge black brick on wheels, to which someone attached chrome and lights. That Zil and the Frua Phantom are both exercises in non-design. As I noted, the design of state limousines is dictated by security needs. I don't think that the Bentley state limousine of Her Majesty is a thing of beauty by any stretch. The whole "super-high roofline" appears to be something that's going to be with us into the foreseeable future. I am not under the impression that aesthetics will ever again be the primary concern in the design of state limousines. Sadly, those days are gone. Brian | ||
| Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov Prolific User Username: soviet Post Number: 180 Registered: 2-2013 |
Sorry, Brian, couldn't help myself but still I would take the Zil over the beast because I think its shape is closer to the 76 Cadillac than the beast is. Perhaps if another foot of metal was put in the middle of the beast its present look would be greatly improved and I agree Elizabeth R's ride is uglier than a beheaded corgi. | ||
| Jan Forrest Grand Master Username: got_one Post Number: 783 Registered: 1-2008 |
Frankly I don't see a lot of difference between The Beast and any other excrescence that's coming out of the Cadillac factory these days. It's loud, brash, vulgar and has no visual redeeming features that can be picked out even with a scanning electron microscope! However if I was in fear of a bomb attack I would take it over a Land Rover any day. At least on a paved road. It must be ... nice(?) to know that, in extremis, you have a personal supply of machine guns, spare magazines, oxygen, spare blood packs and a remote control to launch the entire US arsenal of ICBM nuclear missiles. My only real worry would be the ridiculous ground clearance as proven on a trip to Blighty when it got stuck leaving a personal appearance venue. I wouldn't want to be caught out in it if it meant taking it off road to avoid trouble. I doubt it would make more than a few yards before it bogged down in a puddle or on a pebble! It's an armoured chocolate teapot. | ||
| Brian Vogel Grand Master Username: guyslp Post Number: 1256 Registered: 6-2009 |
Chacun à son goût. For myself, I don't think that Cadillac has produced a line of cars that look as good as the current ones do since the mid to late 1960s. The latest are about as sleek and sporty as they come. The target market for Cadillac (and Lincoln, for that matter) has changed entirely. They're really competing with the world's best sport-luxury cars these days. Lincoln is, however, in desperate need of someone who can design an attractive front end. Brian, who genuinely thinks that "vulgar" has applied to the entire Goodwood Phantom line since its introduction | ||
| Omar M. Shams Grand Master Username: omar Post Number: 454 Registered: 4-2009 |
I think Cadillac lost the plot in the 90s. Since Y2k Cadillacs have become (in opinion) the ugliest cars ever. I have many Cadillacs in my fleet but they are all from the days when these cars were truly stunning. The Beast is exactly that - beastly. The Zil however is very beautiful indeed. | ||
| Bob UK Unregistered guest Posted From: 94.197.121.68 |
IMO. The only limousines that work aesthetically are British. Humber Pullman Austin Sheerline Diamler 420 and of course Rolls Royce Phantoms and Waights. The USA presidents limo looks bland. Paint it white and rent it out for party transportation. I think various governments know how ugly modern limos are so are hanging on to their Rolls-Royces. (Message approved by david_gore) | ||
| Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov Prolific User Username: soviet Post Number: 182 Registered: 2-2013 |
Áðàéàí, âû çíàåòå, âû íå ïðàâû, òàê ýòî ïðèçíàòü. Bob, you are spot on about the Daimler 420 - it's a must have, love the car, one came up here for $17,000 AUD and I had this idea that with a white one that if I could get a mask with a face like one of the royal family, bung on a british plum in mouth accent I could really run amok with the classy women from the local polo set. A white one would be supercool and what could royalty do about it but set the corgis on me. | ||
| Omar M. Shams Grand Master Username: omar Post Number: 455 Registered: 4-2009 |
There is one car that out-limos them all. Even prettier than the Phantoms. And that is the Mercedes 600 Pullman. | ||
| Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov Prolific User Username: soviet Post Number: 183 Registered: 2-2013 |
Omar, I actually worked on a Mercedes 600 Pullman in 1972 and never forgot the sweet smell of its leather and the sheer luxury of the car. I even got to ride in it. Fastastic car and a few come on the market now and again down under. The 600 Pullman was a grand car and a testament to the human spirit considering it was made in Germany whose industries were pulverized to dust only 20 years before it was made. There was one of these straight across the road from me in Perth in a Tudor mansion on the waterfront in 1976. Sadly, it was destroyed by the nephew of the wealthy man who owned it when he recklessly during some hedonistic and crazy moment drove it head first at high speed on the highway into the front of a large semi-trailer truck killing the poor truck driver but surviving himself to be slapped with a manslaughter charge. I dare say his uncle was unimpressed. One limo I would love to acquire is King Khalid of Saudi Arabia's 1976 Cadillac Fleetwood Limo that was built by Wisco of Michigan and costing at the time some say $100,000 USD to build which would have made it the world's most expensive car and much more expensive than my Camargue which got that title. A clearer picture of this most prestigious limousine can be seen on page 356 of the book "Cadillac Standard of the World - The Complete History" by Hendry.  I often wonder what happens to the limousines of heads of state and dictators world wide when they upgrade or retire a car from their fleet. Does the car fall into the hand of a collector for preservation, get locked in a garage to be discovered 30 years later or simply driven to a wreckers for scrap and salvage? Maybe all three. | ||
| Omar M. Shams Grand Master Username: omar Post Number: 456 Registered: 4-2009 |
Dear Vlad, There is a presidential Caddy for sale up the road from me. Check this out: http://tnydu.biz/DOqrtR Omar - have replaced long link with shorter one that doesn't make the page too wide to fit on the screen. David | ||
| Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov Prolific User Username: soviet Post Number: 185 Registered: 2-2013 |
Thanks for that Omar, I had a look but that car is basically a standard Cadillac Fleetwood limo and the price of them is USA is 10 to 20 grand at present and the seller of that one is asking $130,000 plus. | ||
| Bob UK Unregistered guest Posted From: 94.197.121.29 |
As far a stretched limos go the one in tnydu.biz isn't to bad but the roof line is a mess. Locally we have a stretched Hummer in pink. (Message approved by david_gore) | ||
| Brian Vogel Grand Master Username: guyslp Post Number: 1260 Registered: 6-2009 |
I believe the 1972 Cadillac Limo that's shown on this webpage is still at Bruce A. Elder Antique and Classic Cars right here in Staunton. It's a very unusual color for a limo, medium olive. Bruce has had some really incredible cars pass through his hands over the years and the car elevator in his building is something to behold. He had a Horch once that was one of the most gorgeous things on wheels I've ever seen. Brian | ||
| Omar M. Shams Grand Master Username: omar Post Number: 457 Registered: 4-2009 |
David thanks for making the link shorter. There are a few stretched Silver Spurs here in Dubai and these are great value - but what would one do with something that uses up so much space? Its not like you can do the school run and then park the car at work like I do with my normal cars. These stretched Spurs are really good quality ones - I think they may be Jankel ones. And such good value too, but they are not practical cars. Even if someone gave me one for nothing I would still not want it - what would you do with something that you need to throw money at and get little pleasure from? | ||
| Bob UK Unregistered guest Posted From: 94.197.121.215 |
Stretched limo are always cheap because of practical reasons. Old buses and trucks are cheap because of size. So instead of a stretched limo, how about a small 1950s Bedford coach. (Message approved by david_gore) | ||
| Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov Prolific User Username: soviet Post Number: 186 Registered: 2-2013 |
Brian, Bruce Elders Museum is obviously a must see should I be fortunate enough to grace the shores of USA again. Something you may be interested in Brian is Country Classic Cars, a good site, reasonable prices especially compared to Gullwingmotorcars whose site now IMHO only contains overprices cars from reasonable to downright insulting basket cases for the woodduck buyer and of course I would never buy anything from Kumar again, not even a blunt pencil. Omar what about the abandoned cars in Dubai - what is the situation with them? Can you buy them and how would you go about it or are they to be permanent ornaments perishing in the middle eastern sun for ever? One thing I have is space so I will have a stretched Spur or Cadillac or Lincoln one day. I will not have a stretched Hummer or any Australian car that has been made into a limo because these cars are eyesores on wheels and a rude insult to the term "limousine" and a testament to the extremely low level knowledge of cars by the public here. Indeed Australia has always been a place where mutton dressed up as lamb has sold well. Take for instance the fact that in the 1960s we had Pontiac Parisiennes for sale. These cars were a joke. They were made in Right Hand Drive in Canada and I believe shipped here in knock down form, an effort to avoid the grasping tax hand of our ever thieving government. Most came with power brakes and power steering and that trendsetters was the end of it. While the American public could get many styles of Pontiac from a luxury Gran Prix to muscle GTOs with thumping big engines, manual four speeds, to Le Mans, electric seats and air conditioning somebody somewhere in GM decided the Australian was a mug who would accept the basic of all basics. However, this underestimation of the Australian need for luxury lead to a booming import industry together with the left to right hand drive conversion caper which ranged from a difficult job done well to a metal massacre that turned a good car into a dangerous pile of junk. I was lucky enough during certain years of childhood to be raised buy the wealthy dumb (in that they couldn't tell a Monet from a Woolworths plastic print) who were the largest convertors in a state here. At one stage 92 cars were waiting to be converted at $10,OOO a piece and unfortuneates who had imported Corvettes with aircondiitioning were flogged away from the doors of the business like the family mule, that conversion being considered too difficult given the space. And then GM let go one with one of the biggest insults upon the Australian motorist I have ever seen. They replaced the Holden range while still prostituting the Holden name with a thing. They dropped a thing called a Commodore on the market. The general media good at doing their job of pulling the wool over the general populations eyes banged the drum of approval like a wild banshee in 1974 Darwin hurricane. The propaganda would have made Kim Il Jong proud. Immediately I hear media utterings of something being great I know the rat is out of the tunnel and supercharged BS is being paraded as the truth. Not only was this car really ugly, it was also a total piece of garbage perhaps only bettered in its make up in the total trash stakes by the Trabant, the Wartburg and the Moskovich. I have not seen one, oh yay naysayers not one of the first model Commodores on the road for at least 15 years. And I remember one day back in 1977 having 1969 Cadillac Sedan Deville (the only model ever to have ostrich skin leather) in RHD and driving my then inlaws family back from a wedding. At a tad under 100 mph the rear Austrian made tyre which looked the part and in good condition disintergrated. And I recall my then Italian Peasant Father in Law, who had been dumb enough to buy a new Commodore exclaimed "we should have came in the Commodore" Had he not been an inlaw, I would have left him by the roadside in the burning summer sun without water with a 100 mile walk to think about his blatantly stupid comment. Indeed, I can still feel anger about that insult today and I had at the time a burning need to catch the next Aeroflot jet back to Moscow and vomit in a sturdy paper bag all the way. He and his sons had all bought Commodores and knowing I was a mechanic asked what I thought about them. It took me under ten minutes to have a feel of the car and even without driving the thing, I told them Commodores are total junk rubbish and in 10 years time they will be worth 10 percent of what you paid for them and in 15 years most of them will be at the wreckers. I should have had more forsight and said by the year 2015 each and every one will be extinct and long forgotten but the 1969 Cadillac even being a base model will quadruple in value and still be a supercool and velvet comfortable drive 45 years after they were made. | ||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 1561 Registered: 4-2003 |
Hi Vladimir, Have I got a car for you - read the description and the money spent on this car then look at the Auctioneer's estimate: http://www.auctionsamerica.com/events/feature-lots.cfm?SaleCode=FL15&ID=r0224 Do not overlook scrolling through the photos.  | ||
| Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov Prolific User Username: soviet Post Number: 189 Registered: 2-2013 |
Good grief David, its obscene, the proportion is not right, I feel like hiding behind Omar now. | ||
| Omar M. Shams Grand Master Username: omar Post Number: 458 Registered: 4-2009 |
Goes without say - the 600 is the best limo ever (and in any size). The "abandoned cars" are no different to the ones in any country. The get auctioned off and people buy them. Only problem is - they tend to sell the cars in job lots otherwise they will be auctioning every hour of the day. The "lucky" buyer will end up with say 100 cars of which 90 are run of the mill Camrys, 8 good cars and 2 nuggets. You then have to sell off the 90 rubbish cars and its just not worth the whole hassle. | ||
| Bob UK Unregistered guest Posted From: 94.197.120.76 |
Ugly. (Message approved by david_gore) |
