| Author | Message | ||
     Lluís Gimeno-Fabra Experienced User Username: lluís Post Number: 45 Registered: 8-2007 |
Dear all, More and more miles I have put on my 1994 Continental-R. I simply enjoy each single one of them. Driving really seems to improve the car. Besides this a lot of polishing and conditioning also starts to show its effects. Anyway, as I plan to service it soon I would like to post some questions from affirmations that I found in other threats in the archives. Do I really need to change the water-pump as a service item every 8 years? It has never been change until now. The water temperature reading sits at 1/3 of the scale. Heater works perfectly. Do I need to change the thermostat "as a matter of course"? The only thing that I find unpleasant in this car is the slightly hard front suspension ride. The rear is perfect. Should I start thinking of changing spheres? Thanks a lot. | ||
| Paul Yorke Prolific User Username: paul_yorke Post Number: 239 Registered: 6-2006 |
Do I really need to change the water-pump as a service item every 8 years? It has never been change until now. Not IMHO, there have been a few threads on water pumps *threats*. Change it immediately there is any sign of water loss from it or there is noise / play in the bearing. They will almost always loose a little water once or twice then "seem to have sealed themselves again". Don't be fooled, once they leak once, they will fail afterwards. There is a 'tell tale' hole on the bottom of the casing so you can see if it has leaked. You'll need a mirror though. The water temperature reading sits at 1/3 of the scale. Heater works perfectly. Do I need to change the thermostat "as a matter of course"? Small price part on an expensive car. Your choice this time. Use one with lead shots in. The reading is too low on the scale. Check the thermostat isn't letting water past at too cool a temperature ( or any lead shots have failed if it has them). If the thermostat is ok - It could probably do with a water temp transmitter. The only thing that I find unpleasant in this car is the slightly hard front suspension ride. The rear is perfect. Should I start thinking of changing spheres? Gas spring Spheres mainly affect rear suspension. If somebody can sit in the back and read a newspaper when travelling over bumpy roads, you are probably still OK. Regards, Paul. | ||
| StevenBrown New User Username: stevenbrown Post Number: 9 Registered: 10-2008 |
First I agree with Mr. Yorke. But also its a matter of personnel finances. For some small price part could include changing the water pump. At least that was probably the case when our cars were new and with the original owners. On my Spur as with all expensive cars, has whats called a 50,000 mile recommended service. My Spur has 47,325 miles and is a 1987.5. I've done all the minor service needs, oil change, all filters (air, fuel, etcetera). And until 50,000 miles I'll service items when its obvious they need doing, either pointed out by mechanic or checked water pump myself with a mirror as mentioned. In short I've made a list with items placed on it by myself and a certified RR/B mechanic. Rated each item by critical needs attention to can monitor enjoy car and worry about it latter. This is the best way to drive and enjoy your car. Change things when your probably not o.k! The 50,000 mile service they change pretty much anything that appears not be at par. Gets expensive. But when mine hits that number of miles I'm going to bite the bullet and have this done. Logic is that for my $12,000+ U.S dollar estimate, I'll get back a near new mechanically as possible motor car. Until that point I'm doing small things to reduce the eventual large bill. Really its a matter of whats reasonable to the individual price wise. I service my Ford Excursion the same way, except I've had to argue with the dealer on changing things that are obvious to be not at par! Example: front brakes needed new pads and rotors, they said the rear pads are fine, do them anyway said I. Dealer argued on why I should not bother with the rear. It was worth it because restored to like new full braking performance! | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 1495 Registered: 4-2003 |
I must say that it depends on your requirements. If you only ever potter around town, and only every other week to show off at that, by all means let it bust before you spend a dime. Other than the cooling system, there is not much which will predictably and definitely strand you if you do not make the best effort to avoid it on these cars. If breakdowns are a killer and you do long trips or rely on the car, as I do, you may elect to change the water pump every 7-10 years maximum for Silver Shadows and very early SZs, or 11-13 years on all later cars, and the thermostat without question at 5 years. A failed thermostat may not stop you from driving home, but running around overheating, or even worse too cool without a thermostat, sure shortens the engine’s life heaps. Thermostats are cheap enough to replace as a matter of course every 5 years anyhow. These were never meant to be cheap cars, so a few quid for a new thermostat is a pittance really considering the damage it may save. Just a note that SZ saloons and Corniche cars from chassis 02338, apart from an odd few up to two months later which used up the old-stock of crappy early pumps, (late 1980 or so), have far superior pumps with discrete bearings, grease packed on assembly, and greatly improved pump seal. I would give them a life of 14-18 years, but I changed mine at 10 years in any case. The bearings should last forever on these late pumps, but the coolant seals still have a built-in time bomb. My last water pump failure, which was on our ’72 T, occurred just after the Clyde Mountain 120km from Canberra. The pump was 12 years old in 1984. There was no telltale warning, just a sudden big cloud of steam. There was no warning, just a catastrophic failure as on most other such motors I know of. 15 years are stretching the lives of those early pumps, mileage being irrelevant. I know of too many which did not reach 15 years before letting go big-time without warning. If you do see a telltale drip from the vent hole underneath, you might be lucky to make it 15 kilometres more. Refilling the cooling system that time was good for 100 metres. It was expensive, given that the NRMA provided, at the time at least, only to flatbed it as a free service to the nearest garage at Braidwood the next morning. There, anything other than a Holden ute has no chance of having a proper repair, and parts would take three days to arrive from Sydney if you are lucky and they are in stock anyhow, and it would have cost even more in demurrage. The rest of the flatbed trip 75 km to Canberra alone cost the price of a new water pump and more. Then there was the round trip by my father to collect me rather than hitchhiking to Braidwood to find a hotel and miss work in Sydney the next day losing income. Then there was the flight to Sydney, another back to pick up the car in Canberra, and the drive to Sydney. Never again. Best fit the new pump at 7 years on early cars and every 11-13 years on 2338+ SZ cars. It is by far the cheapest insurance to replace the pump rather than to take the risk. Otherwise, one day it will take up lots of time, cost a fortune, will provide you with a hell of a lot of inconvenience, and one day for sure you will end up with a dud car in the garage for a week or more. A breakdown means that you have no chance of finding parts other than at the very highest price. I would hate to break down on an Autobahn 500+ km from Zurich, a trip I often do in the Turbo R. That would cost an even greater fortune even if a local garage could fix it in a week (unlikely). As to the temperature gauge on later cars, they all run just above the D in COLD with a good transmitter even in appalling conditions hot or cold, but will go towards the high end in stinking hot stop-start traffic shortly on very rare occasions. They will never boil unless neglected. RT. | ||
| StevenBrown Experienced User Username: stevenbrown Post Number: 12 Registered: 10-2008 |
Mr. Treacy posting is one of the main reasons I'm going to be doing the 50,000 mile service. Not a fan of Washington State and winter! From rain to snow, gloomy and depressing. So I take vacations and travel California and Nevada, coming back for a week or so to Washington State. Round trips of several thousand miles is the main reason, I love my car. Having mechanical piece of mind, limiting chances of getting stuck, and having things working near factory new. Just makes these trips more enjoyable! | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 1496 Registered: 4-2003 |
PS: take pity on those with ordinary cars. They need even more regular heavy maintenance than our Crewe cars ever did. Old Alfas need a new cam belt at 30,000km, Porsche 911s have timing chains which rip the timing covers apart if not changed regularly. Ancient Jag XK motors suffer the same cam chain carnage, especially on the ubiquitous 2.8 XJ6 , better on the 4.2 but still awful. Most motors these days have toothed cam belts, and almost all new motors need the cam drive to be serviced regularly. Rubber band motors like old VW Porsches (924, 944), Many, many new cars are the same, with the rubber band needing replacing every 40,000-120,000km. That means Mazdas to Alfas to VL Holdens with the Nissan motors to new BMWs. Invariably, you simply throw away the water pump as part of the 50,000km or so service when the cam belt is changed on near-new cars. That is partly because the water pump needs to come off to change the cam belt, and water pumps are known to have a limited life on any brand of car. My BMW M3 6-cylinder water pumps cost anything from $350 to $700: that's right in the range of a mighty Crewe V8, and even a standard BMW 5-series need them more often at a cost not much lower. Imagine the price of one for a V12 ! My brother’s lowly 2007 V6 Passat has just has its first as he has used it a lot since new and warranty has just expired, as has his twin’s near-new Porsche 911 had its equivalent cam drive done. Thank you very much, the service on the Passat alone cost $2,400. of which $1,800 was the cam belt and water pump. We expect too much of our cars if we think that they will go forever without regular heavy maintenance rather than polishing the mascot and changing the oil. Owners of far newer ordinary cars just leaving warranty are expected not to bat an eyelid at a service costing over $2,000. The same blokes too often turn to their hobby Silver Shadow in horror and disgust at paying $150 for a thermostat. | ||
| Paul Yorke Prolific User Username: paul_yorke Post Number: 240 Registered: 6-2006 |
I'd like to suggest . . . . it's all a matter of averages. R-R run half a dozen or so cars or engines and see when and what breaks. so if, say,one water pump lasts say 30000 miles, the next three last 50000 miles and the two last 250000 miles how do you decide when the average one needs changing? Obviously that equals 50000 miles. Now add the time factor into it. what's an average mileage for any car? 1000 miles a year or 30000 miles a year. So that equals 10000 miles a year. Good, Now, is the car driven each week for a fairly short distance so everything is fresh and lubricated, or does it sit in a garage and get used once a year to drive from London to Athens for the owners summer holiday? Ok, so that's 200 miles per week. Excellent. Right - so now we have a set of scientific figures and we can work out that we need to change everything at 50000 miles or 5 years. OR - IMHO every car over a few years old and certainly over 10 years old must be examined and serviced on it's own merit. There is very little that fails without ANY warning. If a car is serviced properly by somebody that knows what to look for AND an owner that listens for any changes in his car, then there should be very little chance of a mechanical failure stopping these cars. Admittedly, as they get older the chances rise, but there are very few owners who can afford to or are willing to spend a fortune on renewing thousands of pounds worth of parts just gambling on an average bet. Electrical problems are another matter!  Most mechanical breakdown calls are followed by the owner saying "whelllll, there was a strange noise that started a few weeks ago, I did mean to phone you about it" For the new owners of old cars, the unlucky, and the over optimistic (in the UK at least ), you can get an annual recovery service for the price of a tank of fuel. They will take ANY car that you are travelling in to your chosen garage / usual repairer for free. That is among other things like onward travel / hotels, emergency hire cars etc. They even take the car if you are too unwell to drive, but the car is fine! ( I've asked . . . . raging hangovers don't count! ) I'd be surprised if it isn't available in Australia as well. Well worth the peace of mind - as long as you can stand the embarrassment of it! lol. Ask to borrow the drivers AA coat so nobody knows you are an owner that has failed to proceed! This is a photo of I changed last week. The owner hadn't mentioned it but the signs were there. I phoned the customer and from what he said about topping it up sparodically, the pump had been leaking on and off for at least 6 months. Not very obvious, but this is what to look out for.  | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 1497 Registered: 4-2003 |
Wow, Steven, With gas prices at $2.77/gallon in Seattle yesterday, still higher than the national average, at least you will have a big saving on those long trips. In Europe it is still CHF1.75/litre here in Switzerland, and typically a sky-high EUR2.10/litre twenty kilometres away in Germany. For a 3.8 litre US gallon in Germany, that's about US$11. That is for 95RON premium unleaded, not even the super-premium V-Power 100 octane I use. RT. | ||
| Paul Yorke Prolific User Username: paul_yorke Post Number: 241 Registered: 6-2006 |
Richard, too right about main agent servicing prices on nearly new cars. When I get asked the inevitable question about how much it will cost to run a Shadow or a Spirit per year - I always say "stay away from the main agents and it will be a hell of a lot less than a new car!" If you factor in new car depreciation into the equation . . . they are almost being paid to own a car! Even with the fuel consumption - you're still quids in! PLUS the main perks that money just can't buy . . ., best spots outside hotels and restaurants, and Park even a 10 grand Rolls-Royce or Bentley next to a 60 grand Merc. BMW. etc . . . you'll be the one getting the ohhhs and ahhhhs. Priceless. | ||
| Paul Yorke Prolific User Username: paul_yorke Post Number: 242 Registered: 6-2006 |
Steven, Now they are the sort of Road trips I miss over here ! I should have included the comfort factor as well . . . being able to drive a 1000 miles in a day and still get out at the other end ready to work or play!  | ||
| Lluís Gimeno-Fabra Experienced User Username: lluís Post Number: 49 Registered: 8-2007 |
-------------------------------------------------- Dear all, Thank you for the numerous replies. I want to do some unscheduled maintenance because my car is a 1994 model with just 26000 miles, and in the last 3 years nothing was made to this non-moving car. When I got it delivered all fluids, including hydraulic, coolant, etc...) were changed, but that is all. Hence all these questions of what to change or not in a car that has not moved much. Brabocars, who sold me the car, said nothing had to be changed but still I am suspicious. Your advice is that waterpump and thermostat are now due and I'll get them replaced. Finito. By the way, I know this is a very general question, but case anybody wants to suggest other items to change during the next service, please do tell me. I am not worried about the mileage of the car, but about its age plastics degrade even when not used, or more precisely they degrade, specially when not used. Richard: Where on earth do you buy petrol? In the Netherlands, usually more expensive that Germany, I pay 1.30 Euro/litre of 95 Shell or 1.35 for 98 Octane. Best regards Lluís | ||
| Lluís Gimeno-Fabra Experienced User Username: lluís Post Number: 50 Registered: 8-2007 |
Excuse me, something went wrong with the postings and I ended up posting 3 slightly different messages, just read the last one... Moderator has deleted these postings. (Message edited by david_gore on 06 November 2008) | ||
| Lawrence Heasman Experienced User Username: lheasman Post Number: 37 Registered: 5-2008 |
I have been told that if you convert your beloved to LPG then the water pump problems will be minimised as as soon as it fails the unit freezes due to the temp of the LPG and the whole engine just stalls thus limiting potential catastrophic damage. However, knowing absolutely sweet fa about all things mechanical this may just be a bit of 'spin' from the LPG Doctors!! | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 1499 Registered: 4-2003 |
To answer your question, the only other avoidable failure which is not obvious that I can think of is in the twin distributors. I personally carry a spare twin-distributor drive belt in the glovebox. At least if it breaks en-route, and they do when far too old (perhaps 12 years old), that small part is all that is required for a full repair at the nearest garage. I bought mine from Crewe, but it is a standard Bosch part. Tee-One Topics covered the issue brilliantly a few months ago. Crewe schedules its replacement every 50,000km (30,000 miles) or 36 months. It looks like a miniature rubber-band toothed drive belt for an overhead cam motor. Turbo SZ cars have this distributor from Chassis 20,000, and the rest from chassis 30,000 Crewe quotes 1 hour for a belt replacement. Running the subject around the bourse has shown that 45 minutes is lightning fast, three hours normal without problems, and a day of frustration is not unusual. Woops, my Bleifrei 95 price in Germany quoted was a mistake. In Waldshut Germany it is now about EUR1,47, after peaking in August-September at around EUR1,69. That' still close to US$8,20 for a US gallon in September, and back to US$7,50 now. In Australian dollars, the German prices are AUD3.30 and AUD3.00 per litre respectively, and in Switzerland the prices are around 20% lower. When it hit US$4/gal in the US, there were suicides in the streets, and the same in Australia at AUD$1.80/litre. AUD2/litre was set to cause street riots and a fall of government, and that's EUR1.05. In Oz, it is now more like EUR0.70, and sometimes at EUR0.54 as a discounters prank. RT. (Message edited by Richard Treacy on 05 November 2008) | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 1502 Registered: 4-2003 |
Um, Lawrence, unless you convert the cooling system to LPG, how in this galaxy can LPG affect the water pump ? Maybe a Nobel Prize has been secretly awarded to someone who knows better. | ||
| Lawrence Heasman Experienced User Username: lheasman Post Number: 38 Registered: 5-2008 |
Hahaha!! Well I did say I knew nothing about the mechanics!! How do i get that Nobel?? But in my very basic layman terms I thought that the LPG converter relied on water from the cooling system to stop the gas freezing the converter that injects the LPG into the engine, so if the water pump packs up the unit instantly freezes thus cutting all fuel to the engine. I may be well off the mark, if so I apologise for my ill informed postings!! | ||
| Lluís Gimeno-Fabra Frequent User Username: lluís Post Number: 51 Registered: 8-2007 |
Funny, the prices used to be higher in Germany than in The Netherlands, I'll bear that in mind for the Next trip. Anyways, if you ever take a tour in the Netherlands you can stop to fill up your Turbo-R, smoke a tree and close the day visiting me and having a ride in the Continental... Regards, Lluís | ||
| Lawrence Heasman Experienced User Username: lheasman Post Number: 39 Registered: 5-2008 |
well I once lived in Etten-Leur and Breda so you never know your luck!! Tot Straks Lawrence | ||
| Lluís Gimeno-Fabra Frequent User Username: lluís Post Number: 52 Registered: 8-2007 |
Ooops, I meant the other way around, higher in The Netherlands. Breda is a nice city. I'm in The Hague, sieged by speed traps. | ||
| Paul Yorke Prolific User Username: paul_yorke Post Number: 245 Registered: 6-2006 |
Lawrence, I think Richard read it the wrong way around. I would think that with a hot engine on a hot day there may be a good chance of the gas staying liquid enough to still run. Especially if the engine is overheating and cooking!Steam could probably transmit enough heat to the unit as well. I think it may be spin & I wouldn't rely on it or want to try! | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 1503 Registered: 4-2003 |
? dnuora yaw gnorw eht daer I did tahW I merely pointed out that the idea of LPG fuel protecting against coolant loss is as daft as using LPG in the cooling system itself: if the motor stops because it is so short of coolant that the LPG heat exchangers fail, then I would hate to see the shrapnel once called a motor. The driver would be hit by the many warning devices much, much earlier, and I wouldn't put any bet on the LPG system packing up before the motor damage is terminal. | ||
| Paul Yorke Prolific User Username: paul_yorke Post Number: 246 Registered: 6-2006 |
LOL RT, my sentiments exactly | ||
| StevenBrown Experienced User Username: stevenbrown Post Number: 15 Registered: 10-2008 |
On the fuel prices, well I have lived in Canada, so see the U.S as reasonable in pricing. With airport's and the hassles they can be these days. Id rather drive the 20hrs or so to Los Angeles from Seattle. The roads are also fairly nice, well paved in rural area's. Lots of rest service opportunities; fuel, food, and if needed sleep, etcetera. 03 to 04, did that trip 12 times in other vehicles; Porsche 928GTS, Mercedes 500SL, and my Excursion SUV. In those cars you notice the 1,200 or so miles. Would even stop for a few hours sleep. Arrival in LA would take a day of relaxing to recover. Spur drove straight through no stops and had zero fatigue. If I had yours, Id be looking at changing belts, filters (fuel/air) and hoses, new spark plugs and wire set and the fluids are all fresh. Would consider new tires. If me would expect a tune up with no major repairs. Mine has more miles and sat for nearly 4 years before I purchased, along with being an older car. More replacement repairs are expected and needed. | ||
| Jonas TRACHSEL Experienced User Username: jonas_trachsel Post Number: 24 Registered: 2-2005 |
Re gasoline price comparison go to http://www.reisen-tcs.ch/etc/medialib/travel/reiseinfos/pdf.Par.0013.File.tmp/EUR_essence.pdf. There you find the gasoline and diesel prices listed for most European countries, regularly updated. Jonas | ||
| Robert Wort Grand Master Username: robert_wort Post Number: 383 Registered: 12-2004 |
Hi Lawrence, Richard and Paul, Just to put my Two Bob’s worth in considering that I have used LPG in my Ford for the last twelve years and recently converted my Silver Spur (ANC04359) to it as well. Lawrence, you stated that, “But in my very basic layman terms I thought that the LPG converter relied on water from the cooling system to stop the gas freezing the converter that injects the LPG into the engine, so if the water pump packs up the unit instantly freezes thus cutting all fuel to the engine”. You are correct in saying that the converter relies on water from the cooling system to stop the gas freezing, but it doesn’t freeze instantly. In fact it takes about 5 minutes; way too late to save your engine should you have a haemorrhage from your water pump. I had a leaking radiator in my Ford which caused my coolant level to get to the low mark without my realising it, but it wasn’t empty and there was sufficient coolant left in there to permit a modicum of cooling. After about 5 minutes on the road my engine suddenly stopped, owing to the converter freezing and blocking the supply of fuel to the carby. If, however, my cooling system was completely empty, my engine would have been well and truly cooked before the freezing took effect. The 1st lesson I learned here, was to check my coolant level daily (something I now always do as well as check the oil level which thankfully, my Spur never uses). Never, I repeat, NEVER, think for one moment that your engine will be safe from catastrophic and irreversible damage because your car is on LPG. If you have a leak from a radiator hose that takes a few minutes to drain, it ‘might’ save your engine, but if your water pump goes, you may lose all of your coolant in a matter of seconds and then “It’s all over Red Rover.” Richard’s and Paul’s warnings should be heeded very seriously. | ||
| Bill Payne Experienced User Username: wimpy Post Number: 13 Registered: 1-2007 |
Just bought regular unleaded in South Carolina for $1.919 US (2.853 AUD)1.50191 Euro. There are some advantages to a recession. I run several limousines which use the standard gas tank, 2 weeks ago I was spending $55-85 for fillups. Now it's $22-38. | ||
| Lawrence Heasman Experienced User Username: lheasman Post Number: 40 Registered: 5-2008 |
Thankyou gentlemen for all your comments and clarifying that point for me. Robert, how long has your Spur been on gas for? Is it a fuel injection model? Is there any significant difference in performance, apart from the $$ savings at the servo!! Do you know the L/KM you are returning on the gas and what range do you get out of those doughnut tanks? Sorry for all the Q's but I am about to get my '88 Spur converted and only know of Shadows that have had it done. | ||
| Robert Wort Grand Master Username: robert_wort Post Number: 384 Registered: 12-2004 |
Hello Lawrence, I had the conversion done about four months ago on my Spur. It is an ’82 model which is still on SU carbs. I don’t have a doughnut tank though Lawrence, I have the standard variety which is hidden nicely away where my old fuel tank was (Go to http://au.rrforums.net/forum/messages/30/7615.html?1218201959 and you will see how it came out). Cheers, Rob. | ||
| StevenBrown Experienced User Username: stevenbrown Post Number: 28 Registered: 10-2008 |
Feel kind of guilty that even in usually more expensive on a national average Washington State gasoline is below $2.00 per gallon. Grew up part time in Canada, more expensive fuel, family friends converted to LPG in late eighties. More common in that country. I'm getting ready to drive down south, Los Angeles and Las Vegas. Having a basic service completed before I go. New, fuel, oil and air filters installed. Checking plugs for good spark, etcetera. Good belts. With driving 20+ year old cars, not just Royce's. Speaking of fuel, a concern would be the fuel system. In the U.S we have ethanol blends and that can free up gum and varnish in the fuel tank causing all kinds of problems. Even more so with carb setups, but all may have fuel pump problems, to clogged injectors, etcetera. Lower mileage cars just purchased. Id seriously look at having the fuel systems cleaned out including the tank. Cars seldom driven and stored without a fuel stabilization additive, have all kinds of bad stale fuel related problems. |
