| Author | Message | ||
     James Feller New User Username: james_feller Post Number: 6 Registered: 10-2007 |
Hi Guys any help or suggestions with the below, I posted this in another thread but no responses, 'I was slightly terrified 2 weeks or so ago. I was driving around with the low fuel light on so I pulled into a Shell service station and filled it up, I use only 98 octane. I got back in, started it up, pulled out and noticed it running very rich and missing, not back firing, just missing. I suspected is was flooding itself, it was puffing a bit of black smoke this time as I did notice it as I looked in the review mirror, not a huge amount but enough to notice the rear exhausts, which are normally clear and clean had sooted up when I got out and had a look. I stayed in the servo for a bit and let idle to see if it would right itself. After about 30 seconds sitting there I put it into D and as I accelerated out it cut out. Needless to say I was a bit concerned! I then cranked it again and it fired up and it drove away fine, full power back and not a puff of black smoke. I thought maybe dirty fuel or something but after reading the above I suspect more the cold start is being a bit of a bugger at times.... Interestingly enough it was not a hot day and it has not acted up again... for now... yes I am touching wood ' it just happened again, I pulled in, filled up and again this spluttering thing, black smoke thing happened?? after about 30 seconds I turned the car off turned it back on at then it was ok??? anyone able to shed some light on this as I'm now think this is fuel issue again as this little issue only happens when I fill up! James | ||
| Paul Yorke Frequent User Username: paul_yorke Post Number: 99 Registered: 6-2006 |
Hi James, Have you had the car long? Has the car done many miles? Was the engine very hot when you stopped to refill? If so, Have you stopped for a few minutes at any other time lately? Often the fuel in the carbs boils and cause flooding mainly in a hot soak condition. Make sure that the metal pipe that comes out of the weakener on the left hand side of the carbs has a slope downwards towards the front. There was also a modification of putting a thin plastic tube through that metal pipe to stop it getting vapour locked. You can pull the rubber hose off the weakener and see if any fuel comes out. | ||
| James Feller New User Username: james_feller Post Number: 7 Registered: 10-2007 |
Hi Paul, thanks for the feedback but I should clarify it is an EFI vehicle. I have had the car for a few months and it has done about 80,000 klms. So not many klms for its age at all. It is an Australian delivered vehicle in Aug 1987 but built Sept 86. It has K Jetronic EFI. No, the engine has never been that hot when I have stopped for fuel as I tend to fill up in the morning and my home is about 10 mins from a fuel station. It is really puzzling, as at all other times it runs perfectly, not a tremor, nor puff of black smoke, shudder or anything, its smooth and virtually silent at tick-over and has plenty of power... so I just don't understand why this occurs when I stop and fill up? The car has recently had huge services and attention lavished upon it. So its a mystery to me, I am heading to the UK next week for a few weeks so will be away for a while but will have my mechanic look at it when I return as I just hate silly stuff like this. However any ideas or suggestions are always welcome guys. Cheers James | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 1311 Registered: 4-2003 |
James, Have you tried pulling off the electrical plug at the cold start injector ? It takes seconds to do. If the intermittent nature of the roughness ceases, then you know to look to the thermal time switch. You have seen my earlier posting on this. By the way, strictly speaking the K-Jetronic system is almost purely mechanical with a few electrical devices tacked on to switch during certain situations such as cold starting. Cars with catalytic converters, presumably like yours, do have minimal electronic closed-loop fine tuning to control the CO once the mechanical system has brought the CO into range, but that only works +/- a few percent or less. Ideally, the closed loop should need to do nothing at all if the mechanical part of the system is correctly tuned. If this fine-tuning fails, then the change is almost unnoticeable. Emissions are adjusted in the workshop with the ECU disconnected as if there were no oxygen sensor, and to the same reading, except that the CO is measured through a blanking plug before the converter and not at the exhaust outlet as on open-loop systems. This is to stop the converter from messing up the CO reading in the manifold. Closed loop faults only show up via a dashboard warning lamp, where fitted, to protect the catalytic converter from poisoning. I assume that you have the workshop manual. Other items which may cause malfunctions include the air switching valve, auxiliary air valve, check valves and the like. A faulty fuel distributor or air-metering valve are quite unusual, but could stick I suppose. The workshop manual describes all tests in detail. RT. | ||
| James Feller New User Username: james_feller Post Number: 8 Registered: 10-2007 |
ta Richard, I will have a look at that this morning and do a little experiment. Its just puzzling that it seems to happen only when I fill up although I suppose it could be just coincidence. I must note however that starting from cold is not as good as it used to be, it is a bit chuggy for a about 5-10 seconds and then settles down to smooth tick over, where as weeks ago it was fine all the time. I had the oxygen sensor replaced due to the light staying on in the dash. This fuel prob was around before and after the new sensor though. I can only assume your right or this path is right or at least gives me somewhere to look and advise my mechanic about. Thanks Richard James | ||
| James Feller New User Username: james_feller Post Number: 10 Registered: 10-2007 |
Update guys, Seems this little gremlin has hidden itself away for a while now. No issues at all and I have filled up numerous times noe without issue. Although now I have brought it up again it will most liekly rise to occasion. All else going very well with the car. | ||
| Randy Roberson Experienced User Username: randy_r Post Number: 13 Registered: 3-2007 |
Watch out for carbon vapor canisters and overfilling the tank, sometimes these systems will flood with liquid fuel on "less proper" cars and cause similar symptoms. I have seen cautions in owners' manuals against topping off the tank to the last drop it will hold. Don't know if the cars originally delivered in Aus have vapor canisters. | ||
| Paul Yorke Prolific User Username: paul_yorke Post Number: 107 Registered: 6-2006 |
Rolls-Royce did have a problem (late 70's?) for a while which involved the breathers going to the inside of the n.s. sill. Seemed like a good idea until they started exploding! Now that WOULD give you a fright! Happy new year! | ||
| James Feller Experienced User Username: james_feller Post Number: 15 Registered: 10-2007 |
not sure what you mean by 'less proper' cars Randy but you make a good point re overfilling... I am one of those people who fills up my cars when the needle gets to half.... its always been something I have done and yes I do tend to like to hear the filling bowser click a few times indicating I have squeezed as much fuel into the 'old girl' as possible, she likes a bloody drink! As for the carbon vapour canister... yes according to my manuals my car has one up the front somewhere I think from memory. Dare I say this again and tempt fate to the point of extreme..... GCH16504 has proceeded with grace and pace and not missed a beat since since I first wrote about this a few months ago. Happy New Year all. | ||
| Bill Coburn Moderator Username: bill_coburn Post Number: 943 Registered: 4-2003 |
Hmmm. Paul thanks for the info on the plastic pipe in the fuel receiver I had wondered what it was there for. I think a similar principal was followed with the SU's on the old Clouds which had that small plastic button and tube poked into the bottom of the float chamber. As to overfilling tanks, the SY and SZ cars all had anti fill arrangements with inverted saucepans in them. The idea was that you filled to the neck and put the hose away. The trapped air in the 'saucepan' would leak out of a small hole and allow the fuel to fill it thus lowering the overall level in the tank. This facility was not present in the post55 cars. You can fill them to the brim, screw the cap on and that is a very full tank. Leave them in the sun the fuel expands and then you have the breather weeweeing all over the road as Paul describes. It only takes a cigarette butt to be dropped and it is barbecue time! |
