| Author | Message | ||
     Jason Watson Experienced User Username: crikeydawn Post Number: 168 Registered: 07-2023 |
Gaiters, I understand Wefco are the preferred, however one can not find or contact the company so leaves no choice but to go through a retailer. At $1400AU plus and delivery I can't help but feel RR-B tax has been applied in a fitting way. I found this guy who has been around for almost 30 years, and is around half the price landed. Anyone have any feedback or experience with him? Product looks good, and to date his correspondence has been prompt, professional, and knowledgable. https://accentsunlimitedgaiters.com/} Now my S springs had a swim in 2011, they had gaiters or what was left of them back then. The springs have been cleaned of mud, dried, and zip tied together. They have no rust with the exception of a little on the exposed rolled ends. I once would have thought gaiters are OK at keeping out moisture and grime, but great at keeping it in. After working on my springs I now feel gaiters do more good than harm. The springs are not painted and had little lubrication so it seems. With remnants of any as a very sticky slight film in a very hit and miss application. Reading a thread or two on here it seems the Bijur system, in regards to spring lubrication, is perhaps less than hit and miss. I would also note with spring slippers added to the end of the top 4 springs, the chance of lubrication making its way past them is slim. Can anyone report on their observations. It seems grease or oil is the choice of lubrication, or WD40 suggested by at least one popular retailer. I don't fancy WD40 as its a poor lubricant, and made to disperse water for a relatively short time. Grease seems preferred by spring shops perhaps as its long lasting, relatively cheap, but holds dirt and grime. Oil a bit the same, and drips is applied too heavily, and may turn into this sticky thin paste over time? So here I am with all before with what to do. I'm thinking new gaiters, of good design, is a must for keeping debris out. So maybe its just pick a lubricant and be done with it. I don'l feel I will be relying on the Bijur system do any more than oil up the rolled spring end bushes. So I'm leaning towards lanolin, of a Inox product that is penetrating (somehow), long lasting, disperses water, low draw to dirt and debris, no impact on leather, rubber, poly, and at the very least can have a long spout fitted that could be poked down the end of the gaiter once and a while to recharge things. Would like to hear anyones view or experiences on the above. Especially aroundI Inox longevity. | ||
| Jeff Martin Frequent User Username: jeff_r_1 Post Number: 644 Registered: 07-2018 |
Mine were lined with this sort of coarse felt, and was meant to be saturated with oil from the Bijur system, so it is imperative that oil gets out and beyond to that area. Otherwise when driven in lots of wet weather, the felt starts to absorb water, and things get cocked up pretty good after a while. When the Bijur system is functioning properly and is used to keep the felts wet with oil, very little debris makes it past the straps. Make sure oil is getting into the rear springs and all its passages. I would pre-oil the felts before assembling and pump the system until you know oil has reached them. The key is, is to use the system. The leaves on the MK VI had all these tiny oil passages in them that were all cocked up with rust _ don't know if they changed that on the S1 Jason. On my MK VI, I painted the springs, added grease nipples and did away the gators, it's been fine for the last 22 thousand miles. To each his own. | ||
| Jason Watson Experienced User Username: crikeydawn Post Number: 169 Registered: 07-2023 |
You and me again mate. S and Cloud springs have ribs or channels in the width of each leaf, 3 high and 2 low, varying from 5 to 3mm in depth pending where they are placed in the pack. If they are for oil then that's a lot of oil, and like I mentioned getting past the glued in slippers would effectively block any access from the end of the leaves. I read MK VI and Dawns have holes like you mention and are flat springs in comparison. Clogging holes was a common issue. Do you think your gaiters were OE? I have not seen anything aftermarket resembling felt internally but it makes sense. | ||
| David Hughes Experienced User Username: wedcar Post Number: 166 Registered: 07-2004 |
Jason WEFCO UK quote 400 pounds sterling + 60 pounds shipping for the four gaiters. I can email the information if you are interested at that price. Regards David | ||
| Jason Watson Experienced User Username: crikeydawn Post Number: 170 Registered: 07-2023 |
Thanks David, please do. All I can muster is a dead link through a directory using WEFCO gaiters in google. I tried the wording used on their gaiter badge also which went nowhere. | ||
| Jeff Martin Frequent User Username: jeff_r_1 Post Number: 645 Registered: 07-2018 |
Jason, yes, I do believe they are OE. I can dig them out and check, but the way they're made, I'm pretty sure they are. Someone here that's more familiar with how the oil gets to the springs on the Clouds and S series cars will have to chime in. It's obviously quite different from my Mk VI. | ||
| Jason Watson Experienced User Username: crikeydawn Post Number: 171 Registered: 07-2023 |
Haha come on Jeff, different.....we are talking RR here. The Bijur system won't be that different. In saying that I would not be surprised if the channeled S springs are an attempt to address breakages in MK VI springs. It appears the hole in MK VI spring that oil was meant to flow through was a failure creating potential weaknesses. Of course in a clean and maintenance focused world it would have worked better. Still the depth of these channels cater for s a lot of oil, far more than an occasional pump of a Bijur. So perhaps the new design is on a different projectory. What oil goes in the Bijur systems? Is it a fine oil, engine oil, specialised oil? | ||
| Koen Dierckxsens Yet to post message Username: prewarrb Post Number: 1 Registered: 04-2024 |
EPW cars - chassis lubrication :  Any standard modern multigrade engine oil is just fine. On EPW cars, chassis lubrication did provide oil to rear shackles. On S-series this was no longer the case:  Chassis lub on S-series goes only to front axle, no more rear axle. Reading a handbook, a manual, etc... is easy.  Regards, Koen, | ||
| Jason Watson Experienced User Username: crikeydawn Post Number: 172 Registered: 07-2023 |
Ah thanks Koen, and welcome. Great to have you contribute, and sorry if I had driven you nuts to feel compelled to do so. Yes I am a bit slack on that front, and a little embarrassed chucked in. The father in law who has 20's ghosts and phantoms always says to me what does the workshop manual say. To date not much compared to manuals of that era so I kind of over look them. Still I know it should be first port of call. I assumed it had a Bijur system as the seller and father in law were discussing it when I purchased. You are correct, it appears Bijur has been renamed One Shot lubrication and only applies to the front end. I had wondered how silent bloc bushes work with oil, not well I would say. Guess my leaning curb is I'm only focusing on putting the diff back together with rear springs, Z bar etc. Looking towards what's happening at the front is not where the head is. Phew well now that's understood, what to lube the springs with before being entombed in gaiters. Better keep reading. | ||
| Jason Watson Experienced User Username: crikeydawn Post Number: 173 Registered: 07-2023 |
Right, been looking in Chapter H where rear suspension is. A little two liner in Chapter D13 says it all. "The rear springs are interleaved and pre-packed with grease. They and the rubber-bushed shackle pins require no additional lubrication." | ||
| Koen Dierckxsens New User Username: prewarrb Post Number: 2 Registered: 04-2024 |
Jason, thanks for the kind reply. While we're at it (and as mentioned before), on springs lubricated with chassis oil the leather covers had at its bottom a very thick felt liner. That liner did touch the underside of the leaves. One end of this felt liner (a long strip, width equal to leaves) was stitched to the inside of the gaiters. I assume this felt liner would have captured excess of oil from the chassis lub and spread to the underside of the leaves. What about S-type leaves without chassis lubricant, I don't know. But it is possible that the same felt liner was still used (soaked in oil before assembly). One last thing: leather gaiters did NOT touch the spring leaves. Between greasy leaves and leather covers there was also a thin waterproof lining (a brown cotton cloth waterproofed with some kind of varnish...?). Since these cloths were very worn on my MKVI, I put a thin stretchy plastic sheet over the greasy leaves. Finally, the whole was covered with leather gaiters. Pre WWII RR used gaiters from Wefco and/or Jeavons (depending on price of these bought-out products, I guess.)  Note cotton cloth is also mentioned. Regards, Koen, | ||
| Jason Watson Experienced User Username: crikeydawn Post Number: 174 Registered: 07-2023 |
Well here you go, and thanks very much Keon. Great bit of detail and always great to learn a bit of history. Very interesting. I have a confession, I'm not a car guy. Actually I bought this car as a boredom filler while we hold the fort while the kids are in high school. The father in law is the RR lover, mostly for the engineering. I grew a liking for an S from hanging around looking at his endless publications on the brand. The S had been flooded, it was cheap, it was a Countryman, and the seller had already dropped 60K on various items. I met a guy briefly who knew of the car before its flooding, and he said it was a very original car. I though this could be fun. So given I have limited space there is much interior fabric associated parts in the boot. After a quick rummage I came across these, and some other cool bits.    You are correct with the leather not touching the springs, or the oil, as the leather is dare I say almost like day one for most part. It does have some stressing over the spring cups and a hole has been repaired on one, so it must have rubbed somewhere. But the leather is dry from grease or oil, relatively clean, and flexible. It's the stitching that has let them down, or perhaps it was unpicked for a template as it's gone along the one side the length of both gaiters. Very neatly I might add. The hidden lacing however is still firm as first day. I'm wondering if one can get to talk to Wefco, would it be possible to order the same with associated internal wrappings. Might have to attach my old badges to the new. | ||
| NormanGeeson Unregistered guest Posted From: 81.98.117.162 |
Guys There is no lubrication system to rear springs on a S series car!! The leaves have insert blocks between the leaves . (Message approved by david_gore) | ||
| Jason Watson Experienced User Username: crikeydawn Post Number: 175 Registered: 07-2023 |
Koen, just reading the Jeavons advert again, love that. It mentions graphite grease for customers who prefer grease over oil. This is the highest % of graphite grease I can find. I did find a 30% but it was 20lt drums minimum. Perhaps another part solved. https://penriteoil.com.au/assets/pis_pdfs/GRAPHITE%20GREASE.pdf | ||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 4268 Registered: 04-2003 |
Christopher Carnley has asked me to include the following information on his behalf:- "The WEFCO firm closed for business some years ago, its patterns etc were acquired by a coachtrimmer called F Pritchard, and the gaiters were made by a saddler called Paula Cooper, both of these businesses closed about 5 years ago and most of the available items are unsold stock. All of the R-R and B cars had leaf spring gaiters as did several other makes, they lace from underneath with a thick layer of felt above the lacing, cord laced with a large curved cutting needle as used by vets on large animal surgery. In the UK we use Denso tape as a substitute, it is a fabric bandage impregnated with petrolatum, ie Vaseline Petroleum jelly, used throughout industry to rust proof steel pipework. Some members use Denso under the gaiters."  | ||
| Jason Watson Experienced User Username: crikeydawn Post Number: 176 Registered: 07-2023 |
Thanks Chris, David, and all. I tried an email yesterday which turned into F Pritchard once sent, but no reply. Shame to see another long established business go under. I have heard of gaiters can/have lasted 80 years. I suspect regular treatment of the leather that parallels use is the key. My US link lines his gaiters with rip stop nylon. If that is like cordura then it's one tuff synthetic product that resists rub extremely well. I have asked him to look into it if not. Think for me I like the use of modern with the old, seems a recurring theme for my build. I can get new leather gaiters lined with a hard wearing material that will contain the grease. I think one could go one step further and use Denso, it looks to be very good. However more work, and I have concerns it may move on moving parts if not wound tightly, may tear if wound too tightly, and how resistant it would be on rub points. If the new gaiters don't come with a nice brand plate then I can swap mine over to keep it looking original. I guess that will only bother the ones it does. And lastly, the price is fair. | ||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 4269 Registered: 04-2003 |
Christopher Carnley has forwarded the following images to me relating to his post above for posting on his behalf: GAITERS:   DENSO:  | ||
| Jason Watson Experienced User Username: crikeydawn Post Number: 177 Registered: 07-2023 |
Ta Dave, Chris, I see that chassis pic if from the US site. They look quite good I think. After my post I pondered on the petroleum jelly blending and glueing itself together, especially if overlapped by 50%. The Dendo tape sure would entomb the springs and grease well. Also think now it would have to be very tightly wrapped to tear. Ol mate in the US lines his gaiters with a rip stop nylon used for sails. It's a very tightly woven fabric and wont allow the grease to penetrate. Think both will do the job nicely, think both will rub through easily if the measurements are wrong or a rub spot is formed. I'm guessing Denso is a loose woven ? to allow the petroleum jelly to penetrate the fabric. So probably not the strongest in resisting rubbing. Maybe Christopher could add if that is a fair assumption. Rip stop nylon is extremely strong against things like force over a broad area, the little squares woven into it are like reo mesh so to speak, so if it rips the matrix of squares slow and stop the tear. Its why its used for tents, sails etc. It's not designed for abrasion and rubbing, and performs poorly in that scenario in my experience. Cordura is a very robust nylon fabric designed to address abrasion and rubbing. Used on the bottom of bushwalking pacs to address sliding down rocks, water falls, sharp stick etc. They also use it in motor bike clothing for obvious reasons. It can be water proof or not, and takes years and years to wear a hole in, in my experience. I guess in the spirit of Mr Royce's perfection in 2024, I would use cordura, but it's not up to me. I have asked and that is all I can do. Obviously Denso or rip stop will do, and I'm perhaps over thinking it. One of my gaiters however has been repaired as the C clamp has worn through the leather. Do it once, do it right is an old saying we had at work, and a worn hole in any of the gaiters layers allows water and dirt to enter where it will not be seen for perhaps many many years. Anyway, we will see. | ||
| Jason Watson Experienced User Username: crikeydawn Post Number: 178 Registered: 07-2023 |
Some good news gang, you can stop panicking. I got a reply from Wefco via wefcogaiters@yahoo.co.uk 2024 price is 400 GBP for set of 4 plus postage as mentioned before. Plus a nice bit of memorabilia chucked in. Still made this way.   |
