| Author | Message | ||
     Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 266 Registered: 4-2003 |
Have a look at the Members' Library section and download the file. It is a compilation of the survival rates for R-R/B cars of all time, 78%. You think that the Bentley Turbo R was a success ? I do, and proudly own one, but... Wow !! Is it really true that the Bentley Turbo R has the poorest survival rate, and by an incredibly huge margin, of all RR/B cars since 1929 when all motor cars were scrapped wholesale during the depression ?? Almost all the other models hover between 75-100% survival, whereas the Turbo R shows a miserable 35%. The survival rate for Turbo Rs must be far poorer than that of a Holden of the same age. Are we such terrible drivers that only 1/3 survive, whilst almost 100% of its contemporary R-R/B cars are still mobile ? Even its twin brother, the Mulsanne, shows a 97% survival. I could believe it, but it's quite amazing. | ||
| Bill Coburn Grand Master Username: bill_coburn Post Number: 213 Registered: 4-2003 |
Richard I suspect that as with any mechanism, when you take a design to the edge you are asking for engine destruction. A good friend of mine who worked at the Factory during turbo production told me that just one of the problems was a tendency for the front end of the crankshaft to literally snap off. This was apparently caused by stresses set up by the various ancillaries belted onto the main driving pulley. He personally repaired four of these engine during his period there. In short performance comes at a price. Separately I remember that a friend who had a very 'hot' manual Ferrari and was quite resigned to the fact that as part of normal servicing, the clutch was replaced once a year! When I think of the old 4 1/4 Dawn loping around in its own quiet way ....... (sigh) | ||
| John Dare Unregistered guest Posted From: 144.138.194.126 |
I have long doubted the wisdom of turbo charged engines for "street" (or even autobahn) driving and suspect that manufacturers exploited the "Turbo" badge when the word was de riguer and egos were ably satisfied. For normal use by normal people, these devices are unecessary and represent a clear and present danger in terms of service and engine longevity, not to mention fuel consumption. Now the latest "fad" seems to be SUPERchargers, witness M.Benz and their "Kompressor" model/s (I wouldnt drive a car with a badge suggesting it might have been built by Atlas Copco!)Jaguar with their XKR8, and Holden (GM) now in there too. Look at the Used car index to provide the best evidence(in the real world) most notably the dismal resale value of Turbo Rs. The "prices" say it all! | ||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 271 Registered: 4-2003 |
As a past employee of Atlas Copco in Australia; I would have no problem in driving a car engineered and/or built by them as their corporate philosophy in the years I worked for them [1980's]was very similar to that of Sir Henry Royce. The continuing use of turbo/superchargers by a large number of manufacturers is a response to market demand - they have been around for so long that their advantages/disadvantages are well-known. In almost all cases, the manufacturers have normally aspirated alternative models available for buyers who do not want/like the pressurised alternatives. You make your decision, pay the price and enjoy the benefits/disadvantages of your choice - long live freedom of choice and availability of alternatives to suit most drivers!!!!! | ||
| John Dare Unregistered guest Posted From: 144.138.194.51 |
Dear David, I hasten to assure you that I did not intend to slight in ANY way, the products of your former employer, having heard comments over the years, to the effect that they make "The Rolls-Royce" of air compressors etc. I was merely alluding to the "Badge" mentality as adopted by most car mnrfs.today (to satisfy the huge egos of some buyers) personally preferring the subtle badges (front/rear) on my Shadow 1. If however, someone insisted that I drive a car featuring a badge indicating "Compressor", I would expect, that at the very least, the mnfr. would spell it correctly! | ||
| Pat Lockyer. Unregistered guest Posted From: 81.131.86.194 |
More hot air or is it cold,Dare i say that it just more ramblings by a brain that has nothing else to do very sad. Go attempt to do something constuctive with your car and give your life a reward before it is too late. | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 337 Registered: 4-2003 |
By the way, most cars delivered in Germany and Switzerland are devoid of any badge. We pay extra for that. Bentleys included. It is considered crass to have Turbo R splashed across the boot, let alone Carerra 4. And thank your lucky stars there is no silberer Schatten badge on Silver Shadows delivered in Germany: Schatten is a shadow, and is male. | ||
| John Dare Unregistered guest Posted From: 144.138.194.205 |
Thank you gentlemen,particularly the former, whose well composed and thoughtfully articulated contributions are always well received. Upon originally entering this forum, which to some is their "stage" (together I might add with other RR/B forums!)I can report that it was not I who attempted to establish and promote my "imprimatur" (or perceived "authority") by telling (and BORING!) all and sundry at regular and opportunistic intervals, with the following trivia; 1/ How "fast" I can (or do) drive. 2/ AND (amusingly!) in a type/designation of car that DOESNT EXIST!) 3/How I live on the "other"(??) side of the (real?) world, leading to..4/ Where I, or my family had lunch or dinner.. was it Monte Carlo or Barcelona? 5/ attempt to validate bald statements, delivered as pronouncements, by reference to (long gone) "university days". 6/openly state that whilst two other contributors (one eminently qualified.. NO not at EVERYTHING!) were debating an issue that I (as the world "authority") was giggling (in mocking contempt) for their "ignorance". You see, as I explained recently, its rather like cricket. I am batting, whereas others are simply bowling, as they continue, unabated, to exercise their egos whilst continuing to assert (and maintain) a perception of authoritive "knowledge" in relation to.. well, just about EVERYTHING. Keep bowling. | ||
| Pat Lockyer. Unregistered guest Posted From: 81.131.164.219 |
Well what a lot of crap from a sad sad sad professional brain. Go off to your place of work and exercise it before it is to late. | ||
| Gordon Norris Experienced User Username: crewes_missile Post Number: 18 Registered: 2-2005 |
Richard, I realise this is an older thread, but I've downloaded the file and can tell you that the figure for Turbo R's MUST be a typographical error. It makes no sense that my car being a LWB Turbo R should enjoy a 99.5% survival as opposed to 35.4% for your car. If you then also look at all the variants, some with even more power like the Turbo RT, RS, Continentals, and then even on to the twin turbo Arnages, etc you can see near 100% survival. As you rightly point out even the Mulsanne Turbo with it's looser handling enjoys 98.8% survival. It just makes no statistical sense, or even common logic, and I would suggest the 1,650 should read 4,650, or at least 4,---. Remember it is Crewe's most successful car over a prolonged period, the car that finally turned the sales tide in favour of B's over RR's, and such sales success would not have occurred had they been prone to such a high rate of failure. Also for detractors, they should be reminded a Turbo R holds the British 1hour CONTINUOUS FULL THROTTLE endurance speed record to this day, previously held by a Lambo countach. This doesn't sound like much, but SUSTAINED full throttle puts huge thermal and dynamic loads on an engine. Also consider this: most modern even non-turbo cars drop oil pressure dangerously and overheat and go into limp-home mode or shut-down after only a few minutes at full throttle. Cars such as Mercedes, Jaguars, etc exhibited this in Motor magazines racetrack testing last year for their "bang-for-your-buck" title. Subaru WRX's are notorious for going into limp mode on track days unless modified. The RRV8, including the turbo variants is renouned for it's durability and strenth IF PROPERLY MAINTAINED. And therein lies the crunch. Most of the horror stories are perpetuated and extrapolated from a handful of abused/poorly maintained cars.  And ain't that always the case... GN. | ||
| Gordon Norris Experienced User Username: crewes_missile Post Number: 20 Registered: 2-2005 |
I should just add that what Bill Coburn said about snapping crank noses is absolutely correct. This did happen in early Mulsanne turbo production and was finally traced to the sudden engagement of the air-con compressor at higher engine speeds causing crankshaft whip. It was cured by a new "softer" air-con magnetic clutch, and I believe (but don't quote me on this) either a redesigned crank nose or damper or both. Anyway, it was not a problem that persisted as far as I am aware. As always, Bill's anecdotes are a reflection of an inspiring depth of knowledge. Kind regards Bill, GN. | ||
| John Dare Grand Master Username: jgdare Post Number: 210 Registered: 12-2004 |
"Higher" ENGINE speeds means that the associated ROAD speed can not only kill or injure YOU (or me!) but can also "kill" your engine. You have all been warned! | ||
| Bill Coburn Grand Master Username: bill_coburn Post Number: 347 Registered: 4-2003 |
Thank you for those kind words Gordon and I am most interested to hear the reason for the problem. As you know RR had lots of problems with crankshafts starting I believe with the 30 HP and that involved snapping the nose off. Mr Lanchester apparently inspired them to develop the well known slipper drive which was dispensed with on production of the shorter crankshft vee eight. Australia also allegedly has the distinction of having the first post war crank failure which was traced to the poor bypass filtration system. | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 583 Registered: 4-2003 |
Gordon et al, You mention that a (1987) Turbo R still holds the British 1 hour continuous full-throttle endurance speed record to this day, previously held by a Lambo countach. I understand that it was and is in fact an official world record for all of three of distance covered, average speed and full throttle: 140.0 miles in one hour. All that was on a closed track, not even on an easier long, flat, empty Autobahn. Without the Bentley Turbo R, both Rolls-Royce and Bentley would either be defunct or sold off at a very low price and probably languish like so many other great marques sold off cheaply. The prices paid, especially by VW, ensured that the accountants will approve investment and demand a return. Megolomania has ensured the future of Rolls-Royce and the return of Maybach, such is German ego when a three-way battle is lost. Both Pietch and Pischetsrieder wanted the old Rolls-Royce, both publically stating that the Bentley Turbos were the jewels in the crown. The Bentley revival was almost complete. Quite apart from the rivalry between BMW and VW, VW had no hesitation in instantly pensioning the Green Lable BMW Bentley Arnage off at the earliest convenience and putting the 6750 V8 Turbo back where it belonged. What kills a Turbo R motor ? Pottering around on short trips. Certainly not a spin at higher (no inverted commas please) RPM (capitals allowed here). That's like an athlete taking a gentle jog. A regular work-out is advisable if you can do it safely. Well, 4500 RPM is not exactly a high engine speed, is it ? That's the modest redline for these cars. | ||
| Stephe Boddice Yet to post message Username: stephe_boddice Post Number: 1 Registered: 2-2005 |
Bill, Just a note for historical accuracy regarding the Lanchester torsional crankshaft damper. That patent was registered in 1910 and, in usual Lanchester fashion, had been developed after thorough calculation from first principles. FHR actually developed his original damper in 1906. Unlike Lanchester, Royce used the heuristic approach - ie trial and error. Lanchester eventually sued for patent breach but lost when R-R produced evidence of the date of first installation. As far as I am aware FHR did not patent his damper arrangement. Stephe www.boddice.co.uk | ||
| Gordon Norris Experienced User Username: crewes_missile Post Number: 23 Registered: 2-2005 |
Hi Richard, You've read "kidnap of the Flying Lady" also I see - amazing twists and turns and politics...would make a good film! As usual you've hit the nail on the head with your comments, and are correct re the records. 4,500 rpm is not cosidered a high engine speed for the parameters and dimensions (bore/stoke) of this engine, and is one of the reasons it is so bullet-proof: even with a turbo it remains very understressed by most modern standards. And pussy-footing about will kill an engine very effectively with carbon build up causing uneven thermal stresses in the cylinder head and piston crowns, hot spots and pre-ignition, clogging of rings and broken lands, fouled plugs, and the list goes on. I would much rather have an engine that has been allowed to stretch it's legs regularly than one pottered about at low revs for prolonged periods or done only short runs. | ||
| John Dare Grand Master Username: jgdare Post Number: 212 Registered: 12-2004 |
Thank you Gentlemen. I find it difficult to accept that an engine crankshaft can fracture just because someone decided to turn on the Air Conditioning. And of ALL cars in a Bentley "Turbo", which I've heard ever so much about, remembering also, that according to recent advice (unconfirmed) the R-R V8 was originally "developed and tested to 600 bhp". Perhaps the road testers simply opened the fresh air vents a little, rather than impose loads (such as engaging the air/ cond. compressor) which is what I will do if I buy one, given the very attractive (for buyers) values now prevailing here in Australia. But then, if I am out on a 35c+ day, I suppose it will probably be safe to cautiously turn the air/cond. on, if I am commuting/driving normally, ie well under those "higher" rpms; whatever they may be. | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 584 Registered: 4-2003 |
Message ? | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 585 Registered: 4-2003 |
No inverted commas or unnecessary capitals please by the way. | ||
| Gordon Norris Experienced User Username: crewes_missile Post Number: 24 Registered: 2-2005 |
John, I'm assuming your tongue is planted in your cheek.  The torsional loads imposed on a crank are largely independant of RPM. Think about where most 4WD's break their axles: usually when crawling in a low gear over rocks - low RPM, but high torque and lots of torsional reactions in the axle, otherwise known as "whip." And so it was with the early Mulsanne turbo's and their crank nose which was originally designed for much lesser stresses: High torque and a hefty air con compressor with a sudden engagement will set up whip which can cause microscopic stellate fractures at the weak point, until "snap"...not exactly metal fatigue, but similar..you get the picture. Higher RPM can magnify the effect of a torsional stress due to inertial effects, such as an engaging compressor, but it is not the RPM per se that is at fault. Repeated episodes at lower RPM will eventually have the same result. Again, the metal fatigue analogy is appropriate. Also we are not talking about failure of the main structure of the crank, but the nose which is a pared down appendage designed only to drive pulleys and ancillaries. As I did point out, the problem was cured and you should feel confident in engageing the air-con in your next Turbo R at any speed.  All the best, GN. | ||
| Bill Coburn Grand Master Username: bill_coburn Post Number: 348 Registered: 4-2003 |
http://au.rrforums.net/cgi-bin/forum/show.pl?tpc=30&post=6149#POST6149 Stephe Thanks for that. I actually have an old Manual and it shows details of the Lanchester design which bears no resemblance to our gadget. | ||
| Gordon Norris Experienced User Username: crewes_missile Post Number: 25 Registered: 2-2005 |
Thank you Stephe and Bill. Your contributions are much appreciated by this member. Trivia to some, but nuggets of golden history to others... GN. | ||
| John Dare Grand Master Username: jgdare Post Number: 213 Registered: 12-2004 |
Thank you Gordon. Despite the attractive prices, I am not sure that I am ready to buy just yet, given that once my non R-R/B owning friends hear about this unforgiveable weakness in Bentley Turbo's (notwithstanding that it has been "corrected") I would attract untold scorn and derision. I can think of many high torque engines where the simple process of air comp. engagement failed to result in the crankshaft fracturing into two pieces; the original "Freeway Flyer" in the M.Benz 6.3 merely being ONE such example. Several of my clients bought these new in the early 70s, none of whom reported the spectacular outcome of turning on the air cond. at whatever speed. It would appear that in Crewes enthusiasm to get on the "Turbo" bandwagon, they uprated the suspension/drive line, put on a turbocharger and hoped for the best. If the original V8 engine was capable of delivering 600 bhp (as recently claimed) then I would have thought that the crucial "centre" of the engine (in the form of its crankshaft) would have been able to withstand all likely loads and stresses, irrespective of how they were imposed; least of all by an ancilliary such as an a/c comp. For those who are going to tell me about how (in later years) 6.3 Benz differentials "failed".. Yes, (I know).. after they fell into the hands of later owners who liked to demonstrate their driving "ability", typically at the traffic lights. Suspension woes in later life? Well.. er, yes.. rather like Shadows and Spirits. In any event, there are many other a/c equipped cars with high torque engines which failed to produce the dramatic outcome now under discussion. (Wink and Smile!) | ||
| Gordon Norris Experienced User Username: crewes_missile Post Number: 28 Registered: 2-2005 |
With all due respect John, we're talking about torque, not BHP, and even until recently the Turbo Bentleys had the highest torque of any production engine in the world, the MB 6.3 being a pussycat by comparison:MB 6.3 500nm vs Turbo R 750+nm. Whilst I must agree that it would seem inexcusible that such a failure should occur, I think you will find that most cars have rather dramatic "teething" troubles during development that never become public knowledge until much later. Egs/ 1/the first batch of AMG SL55 Mercedes started snapping their drive-shafts under acceleration and load and were literally pole-vaulting down the autobahns when the whole mess dug into the tarmac at speed. This is despite extensive pre-production testing. 2/ The first Holden Adventra 4WD's pulled their half shafts out of the hubs at full suspension droop and then proceeded to flail around destroying suspension, brake lines, etc. 3/ the much publicised Ford Falcon Typhoon is popping clutch circlips, and production has been halted until the fix is perfected. And this is on a fully tested racing quality clutch. 4/The much sainted Porsche Boxter right up until this years model would freeze its rear brake pads to the discs if left standing longer than 7 days. 5/NEARLY ALL Holden Gen111 V8's suffer from piston slap and excessive oil consumption. 6/ ALL the performance HSV derivatives suffer recurrent power steering failure when hot. 7/ ALL Mitsubishi Magnas and variants suffer catastrophic cam-drive failure, even if properly serviced, unpredictably anytime beyond 120,000km. AND SO ON, AND SO ON. ALL of these companies have much greater resources and R&D budgets that would dwarf the relative cottage industry that was RR/B. These things are normal in new car and model development, and as I said do not reflect on the final evolved product once a fix is instituted. At least RR/B instituted fixes. Alot of the above waited until the next all-new model to finally fix things, or just ignored and denied!! The fact is the Turbo V8's from RR and Bentley have enjoyed critical acclaim and sales success for good reason. In conclusion, if we damned all cars on pre-production and early production failures, we'd all be driving pedal cars...  So now John, you CAN go out and buy that Turbo R! May all your engines run smoothly, GN. | ||
| John Dare Grand Master Username: jgdare Post Number: 215 Registered: 12-2004 |
Thank you Gordon. I agree entirely that all cars have their quirks and foibles and readily concede that given Crewe's comparatively limited R&D budget they have done well from an overall perspective. I suppose I am simply bemused by such a serious and catastrophic failing as an instant "two-piece" crankshaft, which (irrespective of the cause) would make front page if it were a popular "family" car and particularly given ALL that I've heard about how fantastic and "superior" these cars are supposed to be. However, if I ever do buy one I will keep "our" secret safe lest my friends give me a hard time whenever I arrive in my "Turbo". One has a 308 (I believe you said you had one?) and apart from cam belt changes those engines are allegedly bulletproof. I imagine if those cranks snapped their ends the owners would despatch dark suits looking for a cheque! | ||
| Gordon Norris Experienced User Username: crewes_missile Post Number: 31 Registered: 2-2005 |
John, Yes I have a 308, and also a 355. MAGNIFICO!! I wasn't going to mention the 308 problem out of embarrassment, but here goes: The 308 is a bullet-prrof engine as you say, BUT all the original 308GT4's and some of the early 308GTBs' had sodium filled exhaust valves which had weak stems such that they would fatigue, stretch and eventually snap, dropping the valve head into the combustion chamber at any time without prior warning. A service bulletin was issued, and a new solid exhaust valve was introduced, but a full recall WAS NEVER DONE! It was a case of the dealers informing owners and offering to fix it AT THE OWNERS EXPENSE if they wanted!!! And they got away with it back in the mid and late 70's into the early 80's!!! Lawyers would be all over them today!! Many a 308 engine of course was never upgraded, and there are still plenty of low mileage 308's out there, and there is no way of knowing without detailed engine disassembly. A friend of mine had an exhaust valve drop it's head whilst the car was idling warming in the drive one morning. Due to only idle revs, no damage was done other than a very small dent on one piston crown, and to his ego and bank balance. I confess, my car did the same about 6 month's after I bought it, but at approximately 7,000rpm: VERY loud bang, clatter, loss of power, and sinking feeling in the wallet. Amazingly, the valve head embedded itself obliquely in the valve seat, dented the combustion chamber and piston..AND THAT IS ALL!!  The rods, crank, mains, head etc were all checked for true and crack tested..ALL OK!! So one new piston, beadblasting of the combustion dent, and of course a new set of valves later, it was better than ever. THESE ARE ONE TOUGH LITTLE PEARL OF AN ENGINE. But it is just another example John..even Ferrari get it catastrophically wrong sometimes...so maybe you can forgive Crewe the early crank failures. GN. PS: If buying any 308, get written confirmation the exhaust valves have been changed to the later solid valves. If not, walk away. The episode above on my engine just in gaskets, a new piston, valves and a few other bits and pieces cost $20,000 just in parts 11 years ago when it happened. | ||
| John Dare Grand Master Username: jgdare Post Number: 218 Registered: 12-2004 |
Thank you Gordon. Whilst I am dissappointed to learn of the potential valve problems with 308's, such problems are similar to those experienced in other engines per examples previously cited by you. Perhaps I have simply expected too much from Crewes turbocharged offering, given all that I have been told about how "good" they are. It would seem that they have not been without their problems and like all other cars, have their own limitations. | ||
| Gordon Norris Experienced User Username: crewes_missile Post Number: 33 Registered: 2-2005 |
John, It is only human that we tend to elevate the objects of our desire to often lofty heights. The motoring press rarely does long-term reports, and so the realities of ownership are often far-removed from what we read, and the dream we form in our heads. Also, when you buy second-hand, as most true enthusiasts do, because we could not otherwise afford our "dreams", we are buying into the less reliable phase of any cars life. You are correct, ALL cars have their limitations. I love fine machinery, especially cars, but I have long given up the notion that any are going to be free from trouble or offer endless rewards without some major cost. But rewards there are, and the products from RR/B offer rewards that are sometimes intangible, but delicious. As long as one remains realistic about any car, and that even the best, is after all, just a machine, and will wear, and will break down, it will help to ward off disillusionment. If one wants a perfectly reliable car, go and buy a new Toyota (Japanese for "never breaks down")and trade it in every 2-3years....but I have never owned a Toyota, and probably never will.....and do you know why?...although orange juice may be cheap and good for you, champagne is nicer!! Life is short..indulge in your dreams and enjoy!! GN. PS: Apologies for turning the thread into an amatuer philosophy lecture | ||
| John Dare Grand Master Username: jgdare Post Number: 219 Registered: 12-2004 |
Thank you Gordon. I could not have expressed it so well. Nevertheless, for my efforts today, I believe I am entitled to a glass of good Shiraz and so I retire accordingly. | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 589 Registered: 4-2003 |
Gordon, This Mulsanne Turbo crankshaft issue is news to me. I can find no reference to it anywhere, so you must be in the know. Why was it a problem with the Turbo and not the others, Silver Shadow and all using the Delco-Harrison compressor ? The only thing I can think of is the re-routed drive belts necessitated by the Turbocharger location. Otherwise, the motors are virtually unchanged from the naturally aspirated ones apart from the steel-braced reinforced pistons and the turbocharger itself. The crankshaft on early Turbos carries the same part number as the naturally aspirated cars (UE42681 up to chassis 9956) and was never changed; nor was the damper changed. Are these the cars at risk ? Surely it is not related to the increased power, which was specifically induced at low RPM to avoid Italian-style rev-dependent torque and peak power above 5,000RPM or so. If anything, the Turbo Bentley motors run at lower RPM than the non-Turbo Spirits, Mulsannes and Shadows in general use. On the highway, the taller gearing, especially from chassis 20,000 when fitted with the home market 2.28:1 final drive, means that they are just ticking over at the speed limit. Even at 230km/h or 140mph, the motor is spinning at a leisurely 3,200 RPM, well short of its 4,500 RPM limit. By the way, you mention chronic problems. Below is the discarded camshaft from my father's old 1994 BMW at 80,000 km. My father took delivery of this car new in Munich for export after some 6 months use in Europe, mainly pottering around the UK, and always drove it at rates that would make JD seem like a speed freak. The Canberra BMW dealer said Yeah, all BMW camshafts do that. He got rid of that pathetic car. The new camshaft, tappets and followers cost a bomb, and make the Turbo R seem cheap to run. Audis are even worse: have you ever heard a 15 year old Audi with a quiet valve train ? What about pre-1988 Porsche 911s with their cam chain programmed to self destruct at 80,000km and take the housing with it ? What about 6 cylinder Mercedes-Benz valve stem wear ? And you don't need to change the camshaft drive belt on a Turbo R every few years: they have those wonderful inventions called gears. Also, the Turbo R uses proper fuel injectors well into the 1990s. That BMW's fuel rail fuel injection system had three sets of piezo injectors in 120,000km, also labelled normal by the dealer. Cripes. Have you ever opened the glovebox on a BMW by the way ? You get better quality at a Tupperware party. While on my BMW hobby horse, are you aware that early E36 3-series (1991) were mostly modified to relocate the battery from the engine bay to the boot as they had a tendency to explode in the heat ? Also, that a running modification was carried out at the owner's expense to re-route fuel lines after a number burned to the ground from fuel leaks onto the exhaust manifold ? Ye gods, and I own a BMW, but definitely not an E36. The worst thing about the Crewe V8 is the oil pump drive gear. That needs replacing usually at 320,000km on a naturally aspirated motor and 450,000km on a Turbo motor. Synthetic oil is claimed to have solved that however. In short, all SZs were remarkably well sorted out from the start compared to many other honourable marques. By contrast, the Silver Shadows were not sorted out even when production ceased. Witness the savage and unforgiveable safety problems we have suffered with our T-Series. Now, what a shame it is that the steering rack leaks hung over from the SSII to the SZs and were never solved by the factory.  | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 590 Registered: 4-2003 |
Gordon, Indeed I have a copy of Kidnap of the Flying Lady. It's interesting and surprisingly accurate. It is all the more topical to me as I worked for Daimler-Benz at the time, later DaimlerChrysler when my considerable share options were flushed away due to the megalomania: the Chrysler purchase and the Smart (read Swatch was Smart to bail out leaving Daimler with the congenitally sick baby). Then came the Maybach out of spite. DaimlerChrysler would be better off to put a hideous gold Maybach badge on an S-Class, sell it for the same price as a S-Class, and put a briefcase full of large-denomination Euro banknotes in the boot. Pity. There was enough in the kitty to retire had the options matured just two years earlier. Who says I am anti-German ? My daughter has a German passport, but I always proudly flash her Oz passport at the border. Oh well, at least Bentley and Rolls-Royce survive. And God has blessed some poor souls with a Maybach. If I need to lie down in a car, call me an ambulance or a hearse, not a Maybach please. | ||
| John Dare Grand Master Username: jgdare Post Number: 220 Registered: 12-2004 |
Yes indeed, so many cars have their "achilles" heel, but few (if ANY) have the extraordinary ability to produce an instant "two-piece" crankshaft. However, in the event that I buy a Turbo and feel a need to attain 4500 rpm, I will ensure that the fresh air vents are opened beforehand, since I would always worry about engaging that air/cond. compressor. In any event, imagine if you will, attempting to operate the a/c controls whilst taking a photograph to evidence the "achievement" of an indicated only, 276 kph. I imagine that could be a little tricky. ps. As for 911 valve trains failing at a predetermined 80K kms, I am afraid thats like the old tale about Shadow water pumps mysteriously failing "every 12 years" (whatever) Er.. where ARE my old calenders? | ||
| Gordon Norris Experienced User Username: crewes_missile Post Number: 34 Registered: 2-2005 |
Richard, If you were a mega-rich single playboy that could afford a Maybach, would you really use the rear seats for simply lying down.. ...perhaps Monaco's equivalent of the Holden Sandman..?? ...a bit of schoolboy humour there..sorry! GN. | ||
| Gordon Norris Experienced User Username: crewes_missile Post Number: 37 Registered: 2-2005 |
Richard, Re: source of info re cranks in early Turbo's, is the same as for Bill Coburn's ie/ anecdotal but reliably from inside Crewe. I've never seen it written anywhere in any "official" publication, but then such things often aren't. The exhaust valve problem with early 308 Ferrari's is such common knowledge amongst owners and even non-Ferrari mechanics, that it's almost a pre-requisite for getting your licence, and I'm sure it's a bed-time tale they pass on to their kids. ("once upon a time there was a naughty fast car...")But try and find it in any Ferrari book or buying guide..Ha! I've seen it in only one of literally thousands of books about development, owning, or buying Ferrari's. Also what I've written is all I know Richard, so as to which exact serial numbers were affected..who know's? I find it amazing that Bill Coburn knows about it, and I know about it and no-one else! Maybe it only happened to the 4 vehicles mentioned by Bill near the start. As to why it should happen to the Turbo's and not the naturally aspirateds: what I understand is that it all comes down to torque I believe Richard. Here's how I understand it: With a nat-asp (gee, I've just invented a new acronym )and "only" 400nm of torque or so, the aircon engaging with a thud will actually cause the engine to slow slightly. With the 750+nm (3/4 Newton Kilometre!!) of torque of a Turbo under load, it just keeps a twistin' no matter what the resistance, and winds the crank up. Finally, ...John...I will get you seated in a TurboR yet even if I have to diguise it as a Landrover! (But it does have to be driven with spirit) (pun not intended! I can assure you it is easier to live with than a Porsche 911... Quick (American) Joke: Q: why was the Porsche called a 911? A: so the owners or passers-by could remember what number to call after the car went backwards off the road..   GN. | ||
| John Dare Grand Master Username: jgdare Post Number: 222 Registered: 12-2004 |
Thank you Gordon. All harmless humour taken in good stead!. I can recall many car jokes and stories, however on the last occasion that I told a R-R story, I got into trouble, so I must refrain from further offerings at this time. . With almost every car that I've ever bought I find out (afterwards) that I "should" have bought this (or that) model which was (allegedly) "better" etc. It is apparent that you have a detailed knowledge of Bentley Turbo's, so if I do decide to buy ('90 model currently in Melbourne; "asking" $60K) I will seek you counsel as to WHICH model/year is considered preferable. I would of course, then have a pre-purchase mech./body check performed by Messrs. Vawser or Chapman etc., prior to proceeding. All I need do in the interim, is explain to my wealthier friends that the spectacular air cond.comp./ "two-piece" crankshaft event was only an "isolated" incident, which is what I am now doing (to protect the R-R/B name!) as the story currently does the rounds of the bars and bistros; amid much scoffing and guffawing! | ||
| Gordon Norris Experienced User Username: crewes_missile Post Number: 38 Registered: 2-2005 |
Actually John, I have my 308's broken exhaust valve and dented piston mounted and labelled on a polished block of wood on my bar at home. It becomes an interesting talking point...2 pieces of an RR crank however might be a bit heavy! GN. | ||
| Gordon Norris Experienced User Username: crewes_missile Post Number: 45 Registered: 2-2005 |
Richard, Further to your BMW tirade: JOKE: Q: Why do blondes drive BMW's? A: It's the only make they can remember how to spell... GN. |
