| Author | Message | ||
     Shane Atherton Experienced User Username: shane_atherton Post Number: 13 Registered: 11-2007 |
Hello all, I have read through the archives but can't find the answer to this question...Can anyone tell me the standard dimensions to the speaker/s in the rear parcel shelf of a 1970 Silver Shadow? It looks like it may be close to 5" x 7", and as I don't want to cut the car, was hoping to purchase a new set and bolt out - bolt in. Can anyone help? Regards Shane | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 1675 Registered: 4-2003 |
That's because there were none standard or even dreamed of as an option on civilised cars. All rear parcel shelf speakers on Crewe cars are aftermarket bodges at least until the mid 1990s, and even then it is unclear. The speakers were very primitive until the early 1970s, with speakers to the front doors only. They improved with speakers at chassis 13178 in February 1972 with (WOW!) Phillips dual-cone speakers on all four doors, but with beautifully integrated speaker grilles. Rear parcel speakers were never fitted, even as late as 1992 and probably later too, to save genteel passengers' ears. OK, to the parcel shelf you may fit subwoofers, mid-range kidney stirrers and tweeters for the birds and sound like a black Clapham Fiat Punto GTi with opaque windows on Saturday night if you wish. RT. | ||
| Paul Yorke Grand Master Username: paul_yorke Post Number: 311 Registered: 6-2006 |
RT , you seem to have missed a page in the R-R history - or blanked it out as too crude  That's because there were none standard or even dreamed of as an option on civilised cars. . . . .Except all the Clouds and Early Shadows, which had a single oval speaker in the front and a single one in the rear parcel shelf. Shane, you should be able to get a much better speaker but may need to drill new mounting holes. I think I have an old one about - I'll try and measure it if I can find it, but no guarantees. I think it's possible to mount it under the shelf leaving more room , the hole does not need to be the exact size, as long as it doesn't touch. | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 1677 Registered: 4-2003 |
True, I did ignore the very early cars with the mono AM LW&MW radios and the front and rear speakers. Mind you, those speakers have a lovely antique tone. I have kept the beautiful pushbutton valve radio fully-functional in my R-Type, and can attest to that. The more modern system in that car is fully concealed, speakers and all. However, those mono speakers would best be placed on show in a glass case. Being 16 Ohm or 32 Ohm, and with a 3dB frequency range of 80Hz to 3kHz, they wouldn't be exactly suited to an automotive 2 Ohm or 4 Ohm system as used almost universally since the late 1960s. Even early 1970s FM needs at least 8kHz to do it any justice at all. RT. | ||
| Bill Coburn Moderator Username: bill_coburn Post Number: 1109 Registered: 4-2003 |
My God Richard I detect some aversion to Shane's proposal. I have often wondered why the RTA and/or police don't take an interest in this aspect of automobilia. There is a young man who drives down our street in a Honda something that has a parcel shelf roughly the size of the engine bay. Installed in this expanse are three speakers each capable of holding a substantial three course meal for two, including cutlery. Our house is about 30 feet above the street and some 200 feet back. Even so as this machine passes at full blast it actually shakes the house! A pox on him and his ilk. I however love my music and have a DVD player and iPod player and a thousand dollars worth of speakers installed in the Spur, no tweeters thumpers or farters, the installation is unnoticeable except to another Spur owner and the output copes with any road or traffic noise and blends in with the appearance of the vehicle! The 'unit' that drives it all is actually the same size as the old Telefunken that came out. Imagine Rolls-Royce actually getting that organised! But earlier cars particularly Shadow II's, installation usually finishes up a dog's breakfast! (Well not my dog's mind you). Installers seldom take an interest in the aesthethic aspects of our cars hence the mess. If I manage to get my S2 back on the road, it is going to have a system that blends with the car, and with that limitation provides the best quality of sound. Veneered panels of wood are quite easily duplicated without having to send a team of specialist dwarfs to the Black Forest and with the range of speakers available today they will generally fit anywhere. In short Shane be careful you don't destroy a fine car. | ||
| Jeffrey McCarthy Prolific User Username: jefmac2003 Post Number: 117 Registered: 5-2007 |
Bill, I'm in the process of trying to do exactly that in my '74 SS1. I've re-installed the original radio where the old 8-track was just below the air-con outlet with an original Blaupunkt chrome and black faceplate. This looks good and also looks 'period' if not exactly original - although the company wouldn't have allowed the Blaupunkt logo on the faceplate (I chose to have it there - blank ones are also available). My trouble is with the centre console. I have a 1/2 din vertical mount CD/DVD/MP3 etc and also a T-amp and a 1/2 din Graphic equaliser and a woofer - all of which can be squeezed into the space of the original radio/tape box without too radically changing the appearance. I've replaced the original ashtray with a smaller one from a spur. Once again not original but at least a nod in the design direction of the company. I use it to hold my mobile phone. My problem is finding someone who can make me up a veneer faceplate the size of the original radio one (different cut-outs) in anywhere near the quality of the original. Anyone know anywhere/anyone on the east-coast of Oz who can do this? The whole system, by the way, can be ripped out in half an hour and all the original stuff re-installed - with nothing more complicated than a screwdriver and a pop-rivet gun. I've been practising burr walnut veneer work - I made a parcel shelf brake light which looks OK - but I'm no ways near good enough to do something which will be prominently visible. Jeff (Message edited by jefmac2003 on 26 April 2009) | ||
| Shane Atherton Experienced User Username: shane_atherton Post Number: 14 Registered: 11-2007 |
Thank you Richard, Paul and Bill for the replies. I do have the circa 1970 mono AM LW&MW radio and the front and rear speakers and although powered, won't pick up a frequency. As much as I love to hear the ticking of the clock as I drive, its not overly enthralling or entertaining for my wife and two young children. I would like to install a CD player and speakers to suit. My car was built prior to the factory integrated door speakers, so the parcel shelf is the option for me, there are already two oval speakers fitted there. I am considering installing small round speakers to the outer panels of the front foot wells and painting the speaker grills beige to blend in with the carpet/interior. Any advice there other than don't do it? (Message edited by Shane Atherton on 26 April 2009) | ||
| Shane Atherton Experienced User Username: shane_atherton Post Number: 15 Registered: 11-2007 |
Here is the dash layout. There is no radio/cassette allowance between the two front seats as on later cars, just an ashtray.  | ||
| Shane Atherton Experienced User Username: shane_atherton Post Number: 16 Registered: 11-2007 |
Rear doors - minus inregrated speakers  | ||
| Bill Coburn Moderator Username: bill_coburn Post Number: 1110 Registered: 4-2003 |
Shane your best best bet is a furniture restorer who has handled inlaid and veneer damage. They can reproduce anything | ||
| Gus Brogden Experienced User Username: gus Post Number: 36 Registered: 2-2008 |
My 68 Shadow still has the original AM radio in it. As much as I enjoy the local political trash and gardening talk shows that spew out of it, I miss the music and quality of FM. I haven't listened to AM since the 60's until I got the old Shadow. The radio's vintage fits so well with the dash, I'm going to have a local shop put in an FM "chip", so the radio will still look original to the car, but at least I'll have FM on the AM dial. | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 1679 Registered: 4-2003 |
By the way, from the 1980s there is a Clarion FM Radio Casette (remember those ?) which fits straight into the original console of the FCC Update pakage cars, that means with the console, like Shane's. Our 1972 T-Series has one. No modification is needed whatsoever as the readout section fits the unusual console slot perfectly. However, the original fader on the dashboard is no longer functional as the one on the unit is active rather than the original passive fader. I must say that this series has, in my view, the most beautiful dashboard ever made by Crewe. It's sleek, modern and practical. It makes that of my Turbo R look decidedly chunky and ugly, and the R-R SSII and SZ ones with the LCD and four-quadrant instruments look naff. At least the Turbos have discrete analogue instruments. We kept the old original and functional AM radio in the shed just for fun, but of course it is useless. It also has the original dual-cone speakers all round, and they sound quite acceptable. It would be easy to replace them cheaply by far better speakers when I can be bothered. High quality, and even active, speakers are now so cheap it is amazing. The Clarion set may be old, but at least with the FM it runs a remote CD, DVD, MP3, TomTom and so on, even if the casette is useless these days. Incidentally, the later Console cars lose stowage space to the completely useless 8-Track, so I would never lament not having that. As almost all combination units will fit into a standard DIN setup, a single slot is all that is required. On my Turbo R I threw the original Blaupunkt Toronto unit away. It's called Blue Dot in the handbook to annoy the Germans ! Being a standard DIN fitting, practically anyhing will fit. Mine has been a top-line Pioneer for a decade now - cheap and cheerful, but I still prefer it to the grossly-overrated Alpine I almost swapped from my BMW when I sold it last year. RT. | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 1680 Registered: 4-2003 |
Ugly Turbo R dashboard of SCBZSOTO9HCH20037. At least it has almost full-instrumentation including a tachometer, only missing a Turbo boost gauge. Give me the T-Series dashboard anyday.  | ||
| Jeffrey McCarthy Prolific User Username: jefmac2003 Post Number: 147 Registered: 5-2007 |
Can anybody confirm that the speaker size in my '74 Shadow are 5" speakers ? I'm about to invest in a new set and am not sure how you measure speaker sizes. I could take one to an audio shop but it'll be a few weeks before I can get down to Albury & I wanted to buy them over the internet. | ||
| Jeffrey McCarthy Prolific User Username: jefmac2003 Post Number: 148 Registered: 5-2007 |
Just further to this; if I'm looking at 165 watt speakers will the car's electrics handle this? Or is it just a question of whether the head unit can drive them - anyone who knows anything about car audio, your help would be much appreciated. cheers, Jeff (Message edited by jefmac2003 on 11 August 2009) | ||
| Paul Yorke Grand Master Username: paul_yorke Post Number: 373 Registered: 6-2006 |
Jeffrey, Usually it's cone size. But if you measure across the screw hole centres, you should be able to get something close. If you can find a flat concentric speaker, they usually give better sound. Yours are mounted in a wooden surround, but you can usually go up a size without it. The cars electics will handle just about any size. If you start adding high power amplifiers - you then need to use heavier wires, You haven't said what radio you've got, so it's hard to know if the speakers are suitable. They will be t the top of the power range (165w) . most head units are about 50 w per channel these days. But not a very generous 50w. | ||
| Shane Atherton Experienced User Username: shane_atherton Post Number: 17 Registered: 11-2007 |
Hello Jeffery, I recently purchased a pair of speakers to replace the originals in LRH 8376. I paid $149 from Alberts Hi Fi in Bunbury. Hope the pics help. Regards Shane   (Message edited by david_gore on 11 August 2009) | ||
| Jeffrey McCarthy Prolific User Username: jefmac2003 Post Number: 150 Registered: 5-2007 |
Just to clarify. I mean the four door speakers. They are round, not elongated | ||
| Jeffrey McCarthy Prolific User Username: jefmac2003 Post Number: 151 Registered: 5-2007 |
Thanks for the info guys. Paul, the speakers I'm getting are pretty expensive, around the $200 mark each. (JBL 552) 5" - although they do make a similar 4" http://www.ryda.com.au/JBL-P552-5-Car-Speakers-p/p552.htm The head unit is a fairly ordinary CD/Radio with a built in detachable MP3 - I chose it for the resemblance of the lines to the original 8-track; it has that '70s "look". I can also just plug the original am/fm radio into the auxiliary port.  I have a pet peeve against digitally tuned radios; I can tune one better by ear with one hand on the dial and concentrate on the road instead. The head-unit will be set up to just automatically track ABC classic-FM anyway. The unit has an output of 4-channels at 40w each. However. I plan on also building a 6.5 " Kicker woofer into the centre console; which I'm putting back together now that I've finally finished the floor's new paint 'n soundproofing. There will eventually be an Alpine 5-channel amp professionally wired into the cubby-hole (I'll get a spare piece of the trim and modify the back of it) with the proper grade wiring and a deep-cycle battery in the boot. For now though I'm told (by a very young sounding salesman) that the head unit will run the speakers, just not to their full capacity. The idea is to build the system up as spare money (irony) becomes available, but to put good quality units in. I've heard from audiophiles that it's not a good idea to remove the wooden mount, something to do with speaker vibration or whatever, but they're usually dealing with much flimsier doors than ours. I'll have a go at measuring the speakers as you suggested. | ||
| Ross Rackham New User Username: rosco Post Number: 7 Registered: 8-2009 |
Hi Shane, don't know if this will help but here goes. I am in the middle of upgrading the sound system as we speak. I'm using the 4 door speakers already installed to keep the stock look as much as possible. I am using Polk Audio DB5251 Component System speakers. They are 5 1/4 inch mains which fit perfectly into the door holes. And have a crossover box for the remote tweeter which should fit neatly and reasonably discreetly in the forward corner of each side where the dash meets the glass. The biggest problem has been that co-axial speakers tweeters tend to sit proud and so cannot be mounted behind the stock door panels. I would have preferred this but the remote tweeters are a compromise I can live with. They will also lift the sound field out of the floor. The system head I'm using is a Kenwood KDC-XBT8013U, it looks fine and is Bluetooth equipped so I can use it for my mobile hands free system as well. A 100w RMS x4 amp to drive the speakers and a 200w to drive the 8inch Bazooka tube will fit behind the trim in the boot. And the black Bazooka tube will almost be invisible on the floor of the boot against the rear seat. The base tube probably seems excessive but trust me the sound will be quiet subtle and will fill base that is lacking from the relatively small door speakers. I'm not out to annoy the neighbours, just a modern quality sound system that when finished will be almost invisible. I'm installing things a bit at a time as time permits. At the same time as the speakers I am also replacing and rewiring the flogged out central locking system with a modern set. Cheers Ross (Message edited by rosco on 11 August 2009) | ||
| Jeffrey McCarthy Prolific User Username: jefmac2003 Post Number: 152 Registered: 5-2007 |
Ross that does help me - it means that 5" speakers are the stock size. I've considered the problem with the tweeter part of the coaxials being proud of the grille and had also hoped to avoid the split system, despite the advice of the audiophile purists that it is better. I'd avoided the 'bass in the boot' option because I didn't want to make noise outside the car. But then like yourself I'm not after volume so much as better quality music. Does enough of the bass from the tube penetrate the cabin through the rear-window demister holes? (Message edited by jefmac2003 on 11 August 2009) | ||
| Ross Rackham New User Username: rosco Post Number: 9 Registered: 8-2009 |
Hey Jeff, The 5 1/4 are a perfect fit for the holes. if you go a little smaller either use a wood spacer or some high dense foam around the gap. Also some Dynamat stuck on the door skin behind the speaker will keep the sound in better. The reason I'm going with an 8inch Bazooka not a 6inch is that the rear seat is rather sturdy and will have some damping. The sub sonic will propagate through the car, their not really that dependant on holes. In most high end theatre systems the subs are mono as the low stuff is non directional. As I said 200w seems a lot but it's very low end noise. If you look at the freq sensitivity of the human ear you will see what I mean. By the way the same goes for the high freq stuff so a tweeter reflecting off the front glass is not a bad thing. If you do worry about the bass leaking out the boot some Dynamat on the boot lid and rear quarters will keep it in. Like I said, I want quality inside and to hell with anyone else. That said this is NOT some punk ass duff duff system, personally I feel like throwing a brick at those numb nuts as they go past my house. When it comes to filling in bass think of the Bose home system. Speakers the size of tea cups and a large amped sub box for the low fill. They sound great. I'll add some pics so you can see the tweeters aren't too bad. Just remember that the tweeter has not been fitted yet so you can still see the wire and stuff. It's funny, I walked into the audio shop and one of the young installers came out and asked how he could help, I said “My sound system sucks!” he replied “But it's a Rolls Royce, shouldn't it be the best?”. “Well it's not” I said. “I'll get the manager” was the answer. Hopefully it will work out well. I'm pre-wiring the speakers as I do the central locking and will hand it over to the boys for the rest. I'm remembering now why I gave up that work for a living. And yes they will be cutting the wood for a 1 DIN hole, but it is the 21st century after all. Nothing wrong with mixing the old with the new as long as it's done tastefully. And tell me, why does my best friend have to send me this when he hears I purchased a Shadow? I ask you!!!!!!!!!!    It's also been suggested I try this, Summernats are just around the corner!  |
