| Author | Message | ||
     William H. Trovinger II Grand Master Username: bill_trovinger Post Number: 178 Registered: 8-2003 |
Hello Gents; When I purchased my ’76 Shadow (SRE23726) the air pump was disconnected and the check valves had been blocked off. The car only had to pass emission test once and will never have to do it again. It passed this test without the pump and dealer back then told me pump was seized. Due to laws here dealer (or for that matter any licensed repair facility) cannot remove pump and system. So I left it on the car but not running. However, it now appears that exhaust gas has been traveling back up the “B” bank air manifold causing a small hole to be created on the 90-degree bend just before the check valve. So, I would now like to remove the A & B bank air manifolds and plug their holes on the exhaust manifolds. Also I think at this point I should remove the air pump and the rest of this system, as it is just extra weight and in the way. Has anyone done this procedure? If so, I would appreciate any tips or suggestions one might be willing to share. Best regards, Bill | ||
| Robert Chapman Grand Master Username: shadow Post Number: 126 Registered: 5-2003 |
Hi Bil T, I have seen this done many times,but I believe the holes are actually in the cylinder head and are 5/8 UNF(most popular seem to be allen key headed grub screws 3/4 in long) . It is not permitted to remove these parts in Australia as this would render the vehicle un-road worthy. And for a repairer to do so would be an offence. Stricktly speaking the vehicle would therefore not be insured. There is a school of thought that these parts(air-injection,EGR etc)are power robbing and are better off in the bin,this is not one I personally prescribe to. In my opinion EGR is very necessary, and whilst AIR-INJECTION equipment can be troublesome and expensive to replace I do believe it has its benefits. I was always under the impression that the US had very strict emission laws, I thought you had to have emission tests to get rego each year,Iwould be interested in the requirements there,and do they vary from state to state. | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 471 Registered: 4-2003 |
It's a touchy subject, Robert, and the authorities vary in their approach from state to state in Australia. Before the Germans went ape about preserving the Black Forest, they resisted emissions controls like crazy. Late 70s Mercedes-Benz delivered downunder were really sick performers, especially the 280SEL, because the controls were simply tacked on as an afterthought, a bit like on mid-range Shadows. There was quite an industry in Sydney to remove it all, and the authorities turned a blind eye despite the extensive advertising by the industry. I once spoke to the chief engineer at the ACT Motor Registry around 1980 about this. He told me that he condoned removal of smog controls, citing fuel savings being more worthwhile. I can imagine that the approach is different today though. Bear in mind that Canberra is rather rural compared to most cities, and smog has never been the slightest issue there. Once the Germans had invested heavily in eliminating emissions at source to meet Californian regulations, they lobbied the other way to ban non-Catalytic converter cars successfully on the pretence of stopping acid rain. A car in Germany without cat now attracts a special tax of, I think, US$3,000 or more annually. That way, the industry ensured that all non-cat cars would be scrapped or exported east and replaced by new ones. Great for new car sales. They have a compulsory yearly exhaust gas test too, which ensures a cash cow for the industry as tests are expensive, and encourages the premature replacement of vehicles. My how things change. My father bought a BMW from the factory in 1991 for 5 months' use and export. BMW recommended removing the cat until it was finally shipped to Australia as unleaded was still hard to buy, especially in France. I fully understand and respect your professional obligations to insist that smog control systems be fully functional. No sensible person, professional or otherwise, would ever recommend the flaunting of regulations. Bill, you will have to decide your own course of action by yourself. Just one comment: our '72 T is practically the last Australian-delivered without smog control, and also with the big carbs and 9:1. It is quicker and more economical than any later cars before the Turbos, and they were initially private imports only, because they had no smog control options until 1987. | ||
| William H. Trovinger II Grand Master Username: bill_trovinger Post Number: 179 Registered: 8-2003 |
To Robert, Richard and all others; Let me be clear I am not removing my cat as this is working. The only parts I am considering removal of are those that are not functioning, and yet my car did pass the one exhaust gas test it was required to pass. I will not throw any of these parts away they will be boxed and set aside for the future if ever needed then they can be repaired and placed back on. Robert; What type of metal would you suggest for the grub screws? As to your question on requirements here in the states they are as follows: Federal government sets an emission level for all vehicles within a production year. States have the right to except that level or to increase the requirements, as California has done. States are then responsible to make sure that vehicles continue to meet the standards for the model year in which they where produced. Many state (Wisconsin included) have adopted the policy of testing emission controls in the most populated areas (counties) only, on an annual or bi-annual bases. Other states like Florida have stopped testing all together. Here in Wisconsin a company contacted by the State Department of Transportation and paid for by State Funds collected through registration fees and road taxes preforms the tests. Cars produced between ’67 and ’95 are required to have a bi-annual test where they are put on a dyno and actual exhaust gases are collected and measured. Cars produced after 1995 also have to have a bi-annual test but on these cars their onboard computer is linked to a testing station computer and data downloaded. Gas caps are also tested for seal integrity. If a pre-1996 car fails the test 3 times and the owner can prove that work has been done to repair emission systems a waiver maybe obtained after inspectors check to see that all emission related components are on the vehicle and functioning. However, here in Wisconsin we have two permanent exceptions from this emission-testing requirement. One is exempt ownership and this includes cars used by Federal, State and Local Governments also light duty trucks that are registered for “Farm Use”. The second are cars that carry “Collector Plate” registration. If a car is more then 20 years old and passes the emission test on application then the owner may obtain permanent Collector plates for the vehicle. With this type of plates there is no bi-annual testing and no annual renewal. Cost of the plate is a one time fee (3 times regular fee) and certain other requirements must be met, including limit on annual mileage, proof of ownership of other vehicles and collector plated cars can not be driven during the month of January. This latter group is the exemption under which my Shadow resides. Best regards, Bill | ||
| Carl Jensen Unregistered guest Posted From: 66.68.123.4 |
I had a similar situation with my '75 Shadow. The air diverter valve failed. Rolls-Royce did not stock the part anymore, nor did GM who originally manufactured the part. Eventually the back pressure from the cylinders punched holes in the tubing that originally delivered cool air from the air injection pump, so exhaust gas began leaking into the engine compartment. I removed the air pump and related items and plugged the holes in the cylinder heads with bolts. After that I was amazed at how much less clutter there was in the engine compartment and how much easier it was to do things like change the spark plugs. The driveability of the car also seemed to improve, but maybe that was wishful thinking on my part. However, I'm not sure if this threw off the air/gas mixture going into the cylinders since it seems there would now be less air and therefore a richer overall mixture. In Texas my car is considered an antique and does not have to get yearly inspections. There is also no emission testing for any cars in my area, although other places in Texas do have emissions tests. This requirement seems to vary between and within states depending on their air quality. (Message approved by david_gore) | ||
| whunter Grand Master Username: whunter Post Number: 113 Registered: 10-2003 |
Hello Bill = William H. Trovinger II If you do not remove the catalytic converters; they should melt down shortly. The exhaust air injection was to dilute the unburned fuel mixture going to the catalytic converters. Without the added air, the fuel mixture is too concentrated, and will cause a progressive meltdown of the catalytic material. | ||
| Larry Halpert Prolific User Username: larry_halpert Post Number: 36 Registered: 9-2003 |
In NY, collector car status starts when the vehicle is at least 20 years old, like my '65 & '66 T-birds. Registration is $22.50 a year regardless of vehicle weight, and a yearly "safety" inspection is required at $10. There is no emissions testing required, so you go to your regular mechanic who knows you well enough to simply scan your window reg., and print out the sticker as you hand him 10 bucks. You can drive the car in January, as well as Groundhog Day, Easter, Hannukah, Christmas, the month of June, and all the other months of the year. You are permitted full coverage insurance at about $100 a year. Some insurance companies limit your usage at 2500 miles, others don't put a specific mileage to it, but all expect you to have an everyday car. Also, if you can find the correct NY State license plate from the year of your car, you can use that as long as the number isn't already registered. (My NY plate from '65 is a World's Fair plate). My '89 Spur, on the other hand, requires full dyno emissions testing conforming to the specs required for that year. Most recent test results as of March were: HC was 0.59 (limit was 0.80) CO was 11.0 (limit was 15.0) NOx was 1.44 (limit was 2.00) Don't know if it would pass in Australia, but it was flying colors here. Inspection was $35 for 2 tries, and must be done annually. It once needed the air pump check valve which is GM part #214-403 always available at any regular parts store for about $12, after Albers (Rolls Dealer) quoted me $85 (???!). Larry tbird@consultant.com | ||
| Robert Chapman Grand Master Username: shadow Post Number: 129 Registered: 5-2003 |
Thank for all that info about US regulations,its very interesting to compare. It is as I was told very strict compared to Australian standards but I suspect we will eventually follow your lead. I believe I am correct in saying that there is no state in Australia that currently requires yearly emission testing. In Victoria a vehicle only has to be inspected when it changes ownership,and the test does not require the emissions to be actually tested, only that all original equipment is fitted and APPEARS to be in working order. Bill T,the grub screws that I have seen have all been steel,and have never been difficult to remove . They fit flush and look very neat,I agree with Carl it certainly cleans up the engine by and makes things easier to get at,not that I am promoting the idea you understand. Carl you dont have to worry about the removal of the air pump affecting the fuel mixtures because the air is only injected after the exhaust valve,so therefore not affecting the mixture inside the combustion chamber. | ||
| William H. Trovinger II Grand Master Username: bill_trovinger Post Number: 181 Registered: 8-2003 |
Whunter; How long do you think this melt down would take? The reason I ask is that the air pump though on the car has been nonfunctioning for over 8 years. Owner before disconnected pump three plus years before I bought the car. I have noticed no problem with the cat in the 5 years I have owned her. Side note: It also passed 3 emission tests in HI for him without this pump working. Robert; Thank you for the info it sounds like the way I will go. I would hope that if Australia follows us on testing you do NOT follow us on gas reformulation. It seems every time they reformulate the fuel they claim 10% decrease in emissions but my fuel consumption always increases by 18 to 20% (and cost goes up by another nickel or so) in the end pollution is increase as it takes more fuel for the same amount of driving, so the only one making out are the suppliers (ADM). Best regards, Bill |
