| Author | Message | ||
     Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov Experienced User Username: soviet Post Number: 38 Registered: 2-2013 |
Have 6 months away from working on other peoples machinery so the Camargue demanded I rip out her engine and get on the act. Jaguar 420G jealously screams you bought me first! I ignored the big cat just like little cats ignore anyone they want.This car arrived RHD from New York with gearbox on front seat and engine in engine bay. History of car - Crewe Hong Kong UK USA Australia. As I lifted the engine out with the engine crane in outback Australia I was freaking out as the engine crossed the top of the possibly irreplacible Camargue Grill. Got the engine on secure stand and went for the intake first finding assortment of non RR nuts and bolts sitting on top of valley plate ! Got the plate off. Clear that oil changes have not been done at regular intervals so decided engine must be stripped down to last nut and bolt. No coolant leakage from liner tell tail holes and intake coolant galleries are clean. Weird but so am I. Quite obvious to me that the RR V8 is no copy of anything American. 1. Rear main seal is complete circle type. Never seen any US engine from that era mid 70's with that. 2. Pressure pumps for brake system again not US 3. Rocker arm shaft bolted directly to special set of head studs nuts. 4. Head studs not head bolts. Time to cry please not like Jaguar. Have seen Jag engines swinging on chains for months in hope the the head will let go. Noticed RR left clearance between stud and head. Relief. Awaiting deep single hex 11/16 socket to remove special head stud nuts so heads not off yet. 5. Screw in core/welsh plugs - super cool. 6. Bolt on blocks holding hydraulic lifters again not US. Suspect some very precise British engineers drew a V and started from scratch - would have loved to been their apprentice but never went to Eton. Haw Haw. Bob, have designed but not made a set of extractors for this car. I think it can been done - something to match the 4BB Holley and let this engine breath.Note plently of room for NOS setup for quick over takes past road trains. ie triple semis.Naughty but essential upgrade as Bentley broke the RR I will not tell you the horsepower mantra, this mad Russian says the gloves are off. This is one Camargue that will get out of Dodge fast. Open to all advice critics and scandal rants from all RR/B loving gentlemen internationally on this rebuild. This is one Camargue that will never be junked. Word of advice for anybody wanting to ship a car internationally. Gave work to a seemingly flash/professional establishment on Gold Coast to bring my 1976 Cadillac Fleetwood up to imbecile ADR for rego here ie removing Cadillac double retractor seat belts designed not to decapitate you in severe side swipe accident and replaced with belts that would make any Saudi executioner happy. Decided to give them another go. Hello have RR in NY to go to Brisbane Oz Quote $12,000. Called NY dealer that sold me the car. Right - who is your shipper? Ta Price $4,000. Nice save of 8k for 2 phone calls. What What! So chaps shop around. The classic car shipping world is a sea of sharks and reasonable people. Anybody got a C spanner in good condition that fits the pressure pump nuts gathering dust please email me with demands of loot. SP297 stamped on front of engine block - is that a MI6 code? Anyone know what it means as its not the engine number? End of Camargue Rant. | ||
| Geoff Wootton Grand Master Username: dounraey Post Number: 573 Registered: 5-2012 |
Vladimir Nice to see you are back, after a long absence. Regards Geoff | ||
| Bob UK Unregistered guest Posted From: 94.197.122.81 |
The c spanner is usually a thick walled tube with slots and castles to match. Remove outer jacket. Big circlip on top holds jacket then pull off. Finding a stock of spares in the valley is common. Did you check down the back of the seats for spare change. Check the compression ratio. Ideally 9 to 1. The rear crank seal is maybe a scroll seal which has nothing to wear out. Nitrous oxide works by introducing enrichment of the air with extra oxygen. To make use on the extra oxygen extra petrol is added. The maths mean that trebling horse power is common. Most systems are full on in yer face with no half way measures. In the UK this is legal. Some uses are now putting nitrous in in variable amounts so that the power is not so vicious. I suggest that you aim for a 50% power increase. Check out Nox or noz web site. Rear drive shaft tapers are not strong and 300 hp is about the limit. Its not rpm but torque. Exhaust needs to be bigger bore 70 mm nice, size counts. Have radiator overhauled and up graded. And racing stripes.} (Message approved by david_gore) | ||
| Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov Experienced User Username: soviet Post Number: 42 Registered: 2-2013 |
Honestly Bob, racing stripes. No I just can't do that. Its a white Camargue. No racing stripes just won't do but your info on drive shafts only good for 300 hp is upsetting in fact disturbing. I am positive the Cadillacs rear end will take 600 hp. Are the rear ends in the Arnages beefed up or a totally different animal? The radiator is missing so I will have a large aluminium one fabricated. Compression is 8 to 1. Pretty sure I can beef that by shaving the heads a little and also the intake to fit. I understand there is a cam available to tweek the valve timing a little. I don't like the look of the push rods. They look bloody fairy like compared to USA rods. Ok checking under rear seat now and I'll split the find with you as I never thought of that. Bob the front of the car. The headlight surrounds are white. I think if I blacken them it should look better. Looked at recessing the entire headlight assembly but I just can't butcher something as rare as this just to suit myself. Any other suggestions. | ||
| Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov Experienced User Username: soviet Post Number: 43 Registered: 2-2013 |
BOB!BOB! I found it. A one cent coin USA dated 1985. ok ok a deal is a deal. Silly to cut it in half I'll give it to you when I reach Heathrow on my way to Moscow. "In God We Trust" Perish the thought Bob - too un Soviet to be in my possession could cause a problem if CCCP comes back mid flight. | ||
| Bob UK Unregistered guest Posted From: 94.197.122.93 |
The later cars had splines instead of a taper and woodruff key. This was done because of the Bentley turbo. I believe the splined shaft and splined yoke fit the existing rear hub. Also flying spares have these bits used. If you can't have racing stripes then at least fit a tiny crash helmet and goggles on the silver lady. Skimming heads on V engines can cause mis alignment of the inlet manifold. However this can be corrected by machining the faces of the inlet manifold so it lines up again. I wouldn't go above 9.5 to one. Also if fitting new pistons simply get higher compression ones. A big Holley 4 barrel should work fine. If that isn't enough then mega squirt electronic fuel injection is the best. This system also supports notorious oxide. The mega squirt system will automatically put extra fuel in when the nitrous is put in. There are limits like 500 bhp from an opal kadett, built by a Dutch guy who proudly announced that the engine lasted three runs at Santa Pod. Be aware that the later 6750 RR V8s are a different engine that looks the same with the same basic dimensions. Unfortunately I suspect anymore than 400 bhp may distress the main brg area. Good stuff. This is what I call a long bolt engine, the head studs go deep down into the main brg area. Which connects the mains to the head with the liner clamped between. This is a strong way of construction and relys on the strength of high tensile studs the crankcase sides aren't under tension but compression instead. All materials are stronger in compression than tension. Aluminum under compression is much stronger than steel under tension and very much stronger than cast iron under tension. Also the block is deep skirt design so the sump is not structural. Before you go off half cocked a plan must be made as to how much power is required and EXACTLY how that is to be achieved. Eg if going fuel injection then the manifold needs altering or a fuel injected manifold fitted. The mega squirt uses normal car injectors and so on the main bit they sell are the ecu and throttle body. They rest is generally Bosch stuff. I would use fly by wire so the response can be slowed for traffic use. When I got my car I found nearly 50p under the back seat. I was so pleased because the car cost 50p less. I call it luck money (Message approved by david_gore) | ||
| Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov Experienced User Username: soviet Post Number: 45 Registered: 2-2013 |
Bob you are destroying my soul down here. My only intention was to compare the Camargue, with the Cadillac Fleetwood and with the 420G Jaguar and write an article to be published in Octane simply so when I send in my first novel manuscript to the publishers I can insert a resume that announces Octane published me. Publishers are a skitty lot, they need almost a 100 percent guarantee that your work will return a buck. The evil plan was to hot up all three cars and then compare them. I think that is an impossibility whether they are standard or modified for maximum performance. But anyhow. Cadillac takes the chequered flag for the engine. For $8,000 USD in New Mexico a company can supply a 500 ci donk that will crank 600 hp. In other words - well words straight out of the company directors mouth for $8000 I can double the power of the car. Not only that I have seen much information to say you are not going to blow up a 1976 Cadillac diff up with a mere 600hp. Reliability with abuse. Again Cadillac takes the flag. You can leave the inhibitor out of the Cadillac engine because its cast iron and drive it for hundreds of thousands of miles and it will still run. Do that with RR or Jaguar and you are entering a world of financial pain. Dashboard-Beauty. Jaguar 420G any day of the week. Beauty is obviously a subjective thing but the 420G dashboard gets the Miss Universe sash followed by Camargue and lastly Cadillac. Upholstery - Camargue gets number one spot. Nobody makes the seating as decadent and high class as RR. My Cadillac has velour but Fleetwoods did come out with leather, but RR and Jaguar both used Connolly leather and who knows where GM sourced their leather. So Cadillac comes last again. Appearance. The front of the Camargue is brutal. Some cruel people say ugly. But it says this to me as I look in the rear view mirror from another car "Hey I'm super rich and I don't care what I look like so get the **** out of my way. " The Jaguar front says "Hey we're the Kray Brothers - and you know what we are capable of" The Cadillac says "Hey Buddy, we got the bomb -move it" The rears: "The words supremely elegant" for the Camargue have been used before and I can't better that description for accuracy. The Jaguar rear end well it's nothing but extremely swank. The Cadillac rear end can only be described as extremely flash. But wait - what's this !! Plastic body fillers between the bumper and the body. Horror of horrors plastic on the outside of a Cadillac! Are you kidding me ! To be fair this was not GM's fault. A chap by the name of Ralph Nader was let out of the padded cell without his straight jacket, started to scribble words which shook the entire US car industry. What I am going to do with that plastic is chuck it in the bin one day and hand form the fillers out of stainless. The plastic fillers never stay put, the sun rots them and they lurk all over the show so with a close inspection to the rear end fillers you wonder if they are alive but drunk. Horrid idea. Pure yuk. The sides. The Camargue just under supremely elegant, the Jaguar still supremely swank and the Cadillac "Here comes the President now". But what about the efforts made by each company. With the Jaguar, I can envisage Lyons called a meeting of all his designers and management. And roared at them while smashing his riding crop on the oak table telling them that in no uncertain terms Coventry was taking on Crewe because Crewe had invaded Jaguar territory with independent suspension and a braking system that obviously came direct from alien contact. Because the 420G for what you paid for it new was unbelievable value for money. Indeed a 420G is exactly an e-type with a very swanky body that oozes class. Indeed mechanically it is a race/sports car wearing the king's cloak. (This is why I intend to rip the automatic gearbox out, chuck it in the bin and spend a small fortune installing a T56 Magnum 6 speed manual transmission that can handle 700 ft lbs of torque. Yeh and then I'm going to totally D-type the engine. Why, because out of all three its the only one that can really handle) But what happened in the USA - where did all the 420G Jaguars go ? - perhaps into the Bermuda triangle for they surely disappeared from the USA. That's where most of them went and that's where most of the disappeared. There are more of these jags for sale in New Zealand than in the USA these days and tons more in Australia. And this is where this article really shows that I have lost the plot yet again. The Rolls Royce Camargue and the Cadillac Fleetwood were never made for the purpose of road handling. They were for things like announcing the arrival of the rich. But what about the status of the marques. Well GM shamelessly prostituted the Cadillac name after 1976 and put one of the most prestigious names in US auto history on a whole lot of small ugly noddy cars. You know really they did it for money its as simple as that. Shame shame shame. Jaguar is guilty of this sin as well. Some of the late model retro mark 2 things look like a joke rather than a Jaguar. RR/B never pulled that prank and I have a feeling or is it just a hope that that will never happen. The thing that really killed off the project/article was the 400 hp main bearing problem. But RR did do something different. It used a Shadow drive train, made a joke of saying oh yes Sir the Camargue has more power than the Shadow --look see that- that's a Solex carby. It employed an Italian to design it and trumpeted the split system air conditioning. Eight years to develop that? Do I believe in little green men - NO! But do I believe RR had the audacity to charge twice the price of a Shadow for the Camargue - absolutely. Because the management of RR has always known how to crank the bank accounts of the super rich and you had to be super rich to buy the Camargue in the 70s. Still all three cars at the moment are great value for money. The exclusivity of the Camargue is just insane 184 RHD models only. Now that's just out there. | ||
| Geoff Wootton Grand Master Username: dounraey Post Number: 574 Registered: 5-2012 |
Quite a few UK references in there - did you live there before moving to Australia. | ||
| Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov Experienced User Username: soviet Post Number: 46 Registered: 2-2013 |
Geoff please use complexengine@yahoo.com.au. before the moderator comes after us. No Geoff never been to UK but must do. | ||
| Bob UK Unregistered guest Posted From: 94.197.122.93 |
The 420G dash is the best looking brit car dash board ---- in the world followed by the series 1 XJ. I love the row of switches in the middle bit. The 420G had an S type front with an extended boot and from this the XJ6. In the long run if you want this Camargue to have 600 bhp then fit a 8 litre tuned Cadillac engine, the parts are very cheap. £5000 will buy a turn key engine and bellhousing. Rear axles and transmissions. The problem is more about torque rather than bhp ( bhp is torque in a certain amount of time). A 600 bhp engine at 5252 rpm has 600 ftlbs of torture. At lower rpm less power. But the torque is going to be about the same because it's still 600ftlbs but over a longer time period because the rpm is lower. And in fact the torque at 3000 rpm could be higher. If the rear tyres don't slip then all the torque will be transmit through the transmission this is what breaks axles. Usually what happens is that the tear wheels break traction and the torque can't go any higher because it's being spun away. So when a transmission is quoted as good for 600 bhp it might not be if the tyres get full traction. Trucks have lots of torque and a 300 bhp engine which revs to 2626 rpm ( half of 5252) will have 600 ftlbs. Because trucks have lots of traction it is possible to actually load the transmission to 600 ftlbs. Which is why the bits are massive. Yet they still break if the driver is brutal. The camargue will break traction and spin the torque away. Which leads me to think that 400 bhp is about the limit for that chassis. The reality is that cars like the veyron are heavily depended on electronic traction control etc. I suspect that on the road that the engine never gets to 1000 bhp because the electronics rien it in before the wheels spin and a mega crash. Formula 5000 was lethal because even at 200 mph the cars would spin back wheels. Which is why the cars were banned. Those cars were about 400 bhp and lots of midrange torque. My suggestion is that if you want to go all RR then mildly tune the engine to 300 bhp. Then add a small amount of nitrous when a burst of 400 bhp is,needed. All that is needed is at a max 5 seconds of nitro boost. This is nowhere near the limit of what nitrous can do. A tweak of the system could treble the amount of boost to 600 bhp. In reality a lot of very fast cars are rarely driven flat out simply because it's mega dangerous and the road is too short. Roads that are more or less straight at 100 mph aren't at 200 mph. I don't know what sort of condition your camargue is in but I should think a basket case is £10k. } (Message approved by david_gore) | ||
| Vladimir Ivanovich Kirillov Experienced User Username: soviet Post Number: 48 Registered: 2-2013 |
Well Bob Food for thought. What to do, what to do. Mmmm. Oh Condition of the Camargue. Body 9/10 interior 9/10 paint (no vinyl roof) 8/10 (Bob I am hideously pedantic and precise about paint especially on RR/B as I used to sell cars for a big dealership in Perth Western Australia just used cars but in the door way around the corner there were brand new RR/B including Alan Bonds Shadow and Robert Holmes A'Court's brown Camargue.) I used to tease the RR salesman and the RR mechanics ruthlessly. This was 1977 or 1978. Went something like this "Look at that "GMC" stamped on the transmission pan - are you kidding me - you want $80,000 for a new Shadow and yet RR can't even be bothered to fit an aftermarket aluminium sump on the tranny. Naturally, I was bloody jealous I knew I would never have the dollars-never own something from Crewe. If Lenin himself would appeared and told me I would be typing this to you Bob in 2014 and that several feet away from me JRH23682 would be mine in Right Hand Drive I would have asked him what drugs he was on. Actually, Lenin had a RR - some communist eh. But I digress. Paint on a new RR is pretty damn good and I know how to get it perfect because I trained to be panel beater spray painter with R and C who used to take out top paint prize of street rods year after year. So crazy about paint and panel. My Camargue can't go over 7 for the paint but if you ever send your email Bob I will send you a photo - to the uninitiated the paint looks bloody good. Engine - needs full rebuild because of the oil sludge don't know if a piston has picked up the liner but the oil has not been changed enough so full rebuild. Transmission no idea is heavy and sitting on bench waiting and I will be opening it up and its not going back in the car with GMC stamped on its pan. Diff/Final Drive no idea but am going to risk not looking at it but will listen to it. Suspension looks tight so 9/10 Braking system no idea but the car is not travelling out the gate until every oring is replaced and every metal surface that meets the orings is inspected with magnifying glass for pitting. I reason that if who ever the owners were could not change the brake fluid regularly that the braking system in kaput because brake fluid attracts water that lovely term hydroscopic yes. Boot and for our American friends presently cowering and preventing the release of the Interview because some numnut in Pyongyang with a weird haircut and from a dynasty that Stalin financied is coming out with all sorts of dribble/threats - trunk. Bob is this trunk which is perfect inside there is not one but three amplifiers connected to a very expensive looking Sony cassette radio/cassette player, under that a Sony Graphic Equilizer all connected to Sony 10 CD stacker in the Trunk. (yes you would think there would be more than one bloody cent under the rear seat given that amount spent on music) Glass Bob 9.5/10 (One small star chip in front windscreen) Rubber seals say 7/10. Back on the paint. The car was Crown when new. It is now white but I can tell that it was no quick cheap respray. I don't like Crown I like Black or White. So I am only going to fix the paint where it needs it. But the mystique - the secrets of the car. We may never know. The speedo says 88 miles. So lets say its done 100,088 miles. But that does not match up with interior unless the interior has been redone. When I was in Sydney 9 years ago I applied for a parttime job at the main RR/B workshop to pay my way through a software/development course and somehow got into a discussion with the Service Manager who out of the blue told me that they had an exCrewe trained trimmer employed by them who could do a very nice job. Price to retrim a Shadow $15,000 AUD without the wood - that was 9 years ago. I venture to suggest that the price to retrim a Camargue may have lifted that figure. Could the car have been retrimmed ? In the USA ? At first blush the car does not appear to be ever sat in let alone turned 100,088 miles. Carpets Bob 100 % perfect. Dashboard not perfect acceptable I will be redoing it in dark stain because there is dark stain on the end of the door caps that's what I want. I don't like light stain at all. There is a brass plaque on the outside of the glove box lid that says "Norman Key" No use trying to locate that Gentleman because Google says he does not exist. But this is no shabby Brass Plaque. It appears to be Hallmarked like antique English silverware. But maybe I am wrong the Hallmark or what appears to be a Hallmark is "HK * (Lion symbol) B. The * represents a symbol I cannot identify. Now we have all heard this one "Oh yes Rolls Royce well there was this chap in Italy quite rich quite a notable. He got a flat called RR Headquarters in London and a mechanic flew out to Turin changed the tyre and said " Sorry Sir No Charge RR don't break down and disappeared up the steps of the plane in Rome never to be seen again and the RR was 10 years old." Yeh right. But the Hunt House documents simply don't make any sense at all. It appears indeed that the documents contained in the folder include not one but two Camargues. There is telex waffle therein showing a request from Hong Kong that the colour be changed from Crown to White with Tan interior which is what it now is. The car is ordered on Feb 1975. November 1975 the dealer requests colour change from Crown to White with Tan Interior. (The paint code on the underneath of the bonnet says LB 66/2C. The trim code says 5003.There is another plaque that says Special Order MI6HK007WaltherJB.) No idea idea what that means.I will have to hit this sites achival info to work out what these codes mean.Car goes to Export Services on August, 1976. And so it goes to Hong Kong. Then it obviously didn't like chop suey because it reappears back in the UK before June 1978 as I have a copy of a letter to the owner (not Key) dated 12 June 1978 from RM Bond Assistant Manager Crewe Service Centre stating with the exception of Paintwork, Coachwork and Trim the car has 3 years warranty from this date. Amazing and quite gentlemanly behaviour from Crewe itself. But I would say the car is no basket case. I hazard an uneducated guess that it has only done one clock turn. Mysteriously, its down on the docks again in December 1978 or there abouts, some clown has put 24 volts to it cranking out a bill of 2,300 sterling. OUCH! I have a Nebraska Certificate of Title dated Sept 1999 recording 98419 actual mileage. That certificate of Title has the name of the New York car dealer who shipped it directly to me in November 2010 it to me in Australia. So I hazard a guess that it is not a basket case, its not concours, its engine is blown (I assume blown because of the oil sludge and the fact the engine was removed in NY or Nebraska, its tappet cover is missing on one side, so is the radiator, regardless of the fact that I have emails from NY stating the car is complete.Typical but for $26,000 AUD I am quite happy considering the cheapest Camargue in Oz is a tad under 100K$ and can you believe it another, looks nice but at $295,000 AUD ah no thanks. No Bob, I think we will go for a non nos slight performance up grade including hand made extractors if I can make them fit. Then Bob, yes then I will try for another Camargue. We will fit the 600 hp Cadillac engine, with the beefed up Turbo 400 tagging behind it a Gear Vendors overdrive, followed by a Dana Fleetwood diff and custom made drive shafts hidden be the 50 percent NOS on 5 seconds cracko and we will paint it black Bob gloss black. Along with the CCCP personalized number plates who will notice it Bob until I floor the accelerator. Just 50 kilometres from my gate Bob I have stretches where 200 mph is quite safe I think of course the police would have a field day so perhaps by then I will have to good sense to hit the Autobahn to stir the Gerries. I may have drunk too many coffees this morning Bob. | ||
| Bob UK Unregistered guest Posted From: 94.197.122.93 |
Aluminum gbox sump pans are nice. But RRs are sold to rich people who in general don't care if the car has an aluminum sump or not. The aluminum sump does add strength to the gearbox case. Not that it needs it under 300 bhp. I find Americans can't see the difference between performance and custom. Your camargue is worth with a dodgy engine about £20k in the UK, and over double with a good engine. I would take the gearbox sump pan off, if it looks good just fit a filter and a custom sump and a new converter seal. The axle is probably ok as well. The law of diminishing returns. This engine is about 32 bhp per litre, which is about the same as a Morris Minor or a tractor. So getting a big initial power increase is relatively cheap and easy. The first 50% is £x but the next 50% is 5 times £x. The main tuning problem as with a lot a yank iron is the exhaust headers. Getting more is simply a case of making the engine suck more air in. More air means the engine can burn more fuel ( at the right ratio), more fuel means more power. And more heat. To get more air in the engine means more exhaust gas needs to get out. Watch out for bar stool engine tuners who think they know, they will lead you up the garden path with a load of technical rubbish. Such as very thick spark plug leads. I badly explained about the British and regulations. In certain things we are very strict such as domestic gas. But with cars we just let anybody fix, this is because accidents due to people making a mistake when fixing the car are extremely rare. Domestic gas is different because gas explosions in buildings is not. Domestic aircon is treated as domestic gas system therefore one must have a certificate. Car air con doesn't require a certificate. However only an idiot would muck about with it without reading up. Of course some are idiots, but they would carry on even if it was illegal. So we take the view that having an extra regulation which does nothing is a waste of time and money. Instead we have the health and safety executive. The regulations basically say if you do anything dangerous we will prosecute even if you didn't know it was dangerous because you should have checked. Plus its illegal to vent fridge gas to atmosphere, which is not policed. But if someone reports it then they investigate. It wasn't fridge gas sir, it was air from my air line the gentleman heard. The environmental officer then raises an eyebrow and end of investigation. But if one says I vent all the time and I will smash your face in, then it's prison. When I do things I do a risk assessment. Which could be as simple as looking left and right before crossing the road or it could be complicated like working down a mine. Which would require a written risk assessment. I want to do my own aircon so I read up and took a 3 day course. Which I got for free. Normally it costs £65. In return I worked for 5 days (3 of which was the course) For nothing. If it is illegal is Oz to do aircon then be careful what you say. However it's not illegal to work on cars so what does working on the aircon actually mean because the front bumper is connected to the rear bumper and every bit between them. So I bet the illegal bit is when the gas is put in. Because it's Christmas here's a thought for Christmas. First we had Jews, then some Jews became Christians then Islam was developed from both. The central core values are the same. The options and extras are different. Because of the different options and extras they fight about it. 400 years ago the two Christian religions in the UK started a civil war 1640ish. One of the differences was that Catholics eat only fish on Fridays. Doh. History books go into how the king abused his position etc, but the real problem was two different religions. One side tried very hard to get on with the neighbours, but they then decided to blow up parliment at Westminster. ( guy fawkes). Even now (Ireland) we still have the problem. All over fish on Friday. My view is that Ireland should be united and join the United Kingdom like Scotland Wales and Enland. Southern Ireland still has allegiance to the UK Crown, And the Queen it thought of by some Irish nationals as their Queen. We have Irish nationals in the UK police and military. The Irish Guards really are Irish. I have Irish cousins, they speak English in a different accent, so do Yorkshire people, they sometimes use the old Irish language but so do the Welsh and Scots. I think of Irish cousins the same as the Scot and Welsh ones. I have some in Yorkshire, now they are different. We don't mention the Norfolk lot. Ireland is part of Great Britian. As I said we are all the same. (Message approved by david_gore) | ||
| Jan Forrest Grand Master Username: got_one Post Number: 719 Registered: 1-2008 |
Hhmmm ... Fish and refrigeration in the same response. How apt. Roman Catholics are no longer required to eat only fish on Fidays as penance for - I forget what. This is because refrigeration and freezing has become so common that fish are rarely preserved in salt and so taste a lot nicer than in the Middle Ages. I was raised RC, but I got better. | ||
| Bob UK Unregistered guest Posted From: 94.197.122.77 |
Fish on Friday was a Mick take of all the stupid difference that people use to start a war. I am I suspose a Christian atheist. There are Muslim atheist and Jewish atheists we have turned atheism into a religion. Some things like not eating pork is really about public health. But in modern times with modern cooking pork is safe, however in hot poorer countries I would be very cautious, and therefore if I was in charge I would ban pork because cooked badly it can kill children and old people fast. The big yin said he was brought up RC and he had a degree in guilt. The green environmentalists work the same way, guilt. It like a religion. Vegetarians going on about killing ( nay even murder) cows, trying to make me feel guilty as I mop up the gravy with bread. It's like cows live for ever and never die. I think that it's everybody duty to be happy, and to be happy you have to keep other people happy. Because to be happy ones needs help and to get that help one has to help others so they can help you. People that aren't happy don't work well. And so on. (Message approved by david_gore) |
