| Author | Message | ||
     Daniel Depil Yet to post message Username: lbal20 Post Number: 1 Registered: 1-2007 |
Sorry to bother you from overseas but I have trouble with my 87 spur, SCAZN0001HCX21924. Bought it 4 months ago and found out that the cruise control is not working at all. Speedo is doing fine. Where do I start to troubleshoot ? Any help and hints appreciated. Thanks from Switzerland Daniel | ||
| Mr. Ulrich Baumewerd Yet to post message Username: silvershadowii Post Number: 1 Registered: 12-2006 |
Good morning switzerland, please look at the german Web-Site www.bentley-forum.de or contact Mr. Erbrecht www.heavens-gate-garage.de Ulrich | ||
| Bill Coburn Moderator Username: bill_coburn Post Number: 853 Registered: 4-2003 |
Well good morning Mr Baumewerd. I was most interested to read the references you supplied to Daniel. His text that really stood out to me was 'where do I start to troubleshoot?' My schoolboy German detected that the website you recommended was mainly to advise of events and interesting cars and as far as I could decipher there was no discussion of anything technical about the cars other than perhaps sheer specifications. As to Mr Erbrecht he obviously has a mine of information to promote his business but I did get the impression that this was probably not freely available to the average owner. This Club in Australia is to my knowledge the only one in the world that endeavours to publish via the world wide webb the many technical publications put out by the old Factory. Our intent is certainly to help the owner/driver/mechanic but the long view is that if the repairer whoever it is has the right information he will hopefully not damage the car in his voyage of exploration and thereby it may last just that much longer. The information Daniel requires is contained in the Factory publication TSD 4701 which is section 'M' of the manual dealing with all cars produced in the 20 - 30 thousand chassis series. The electrical section is so comprehensive they had to print it in colour on A3 size paper. I have two excellent A4 scanners but double scanning and welding them together somewhat taxes my quotient of enthusiasm. So I have bought a manual A3 scanner but have yet to get the rotten thing to talk to my computer. Co-incidentally I have a 1989 Bentley Eight with exactly the same problem and the only clue I have at the moment is that the kickdown switch does not appear to work! So tomorrow when I am in a more sanguine mood I will endeavour to get the A3 scanner working, hopefully copy the five pages, create a PDF file and put it on our web site then all the world will know how to fix the problem. Not wishing to labour the point you will appreciate that all the material on this site with the exception of periodicals produced by and essentially instrinsic to our club, ARE PUBLIC and certainly not conditional on joining or paying! In fact we seem to have the approach that following this course of action preserves the car otherwise the alternative would seem to be endeavours almost solely directed to preserving the Club(s). You may care to pass this information to your Mr Erbrecht who may never have heard of us and maybe drop some detail on the German Bentley forum if you think they may be interested. And finally Daniel you are not bothering us - we hope to help. Cheers. | ||
| Daniel Depil New User Username: lbal20 Post Number: 2 Registered: 1-2007 |
Hope rises on the horizon, thx Bill. I anyway added my request on the recommended page as well. If I get an intresting answer, I will translate and publish it here as a little payback to the enormous contribution in maintenance work on this forum. Kind regards, Daniel | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 1150 Registered: 4-2003 |
I see from the RREC register, Daniel, that you live not far from my home. I assume that yours is a 20,000-series car like mine. If so, read on. First off, check that your centre stop lamp on the parcel shelf works. If the bulb has failed, then the cruise control will not engage as a safety feature. Also I assume that the main stop lamps function correctly. If that shows up nothing, then you may wish to try out my spare VDO control box from my 20.000-series Turbo R one afternoon as it has the same cruise controller as yours. It works when cold, but was dropping out after a time so I replaced it. I could also swap the one from my car as a trial in a few minutes. It would indicate if the fault lies there, and Opel Ruckstuhl can sell you a new controller off the shelf locally if my spare works better than your present one. Apart from those two things, not much goes wrong with these Bosch/VDO electrically actuated (no vacuum bellows) cruise controllers. Regards, Richard. (Message edited by Richard Treacy on 26 January 2007) | ||
| Larry Halpert Prolific User Username: larry_halpert Post Number: 108 Registered: 9-2003 |
What car do they say the controller is for at Opel Ruckstuhl? I know it as used in Holdens. What's their cost? Larry | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 1152 Registered: 4-2003 |
Larry, Sorry to dissapoint you, but the VDO parts are the same as already advised and published on your site. The Crewe part is made by VDO: VDO part 412 212/4/1 The General Motors part is VDO part 412 212/3/2, which is GM Europe part number GM90213458. Opel Ruckstuhl is one of a number of Swiss dealer chains for General Motors Europe cars, that is Opel cars. Vauxhaull in the UK and Holden (eg VN Commodore etc) in Australia often used the same parts in this application, as did some GM North America cars. The VDO 412 212/4/1 has a mounting bracket with two mounting screw holes. The VDO 412 212/3/2 is the same (same size, same function and same electrically with the same plug), but one mounting screw hole is deleted. The holes are the same size. They are interchangeable without any modification whatsoever. The one I bought, without shopping around, cost CHF530 including value added tax at Opel Ruckstuhl, an Opel dealer in Zürich. That's about USD450 or AUD580. No doubt they are cheaper at other shops, and also in Germany, the US and Australia. I simply searched the VDO part number stamped on the original casing and found a near match in 412 212/3/2. A visit to the dealer showed availability, so I just bought it and presto. RT. | ||
| Larry Halpert Prolific User Username: larry_halpert Post Number: 109 Registered: 9-2003 |
Hi Richard, OK, just keeping tabs on my site's accuracy. I imagine that it is at least his controller, and it seems he would still do better getting his rebuilt with better more reliable parts than a new one along with better warranty from GDL labs at about $295 US. Saving about $150 in the process doesn't hurt, though I'm learning that many don't consider that a lot of money. They will also rebuild his actuator if need be. More info here: http://mutley.hypermart.net/RollsSubstituteParts.html Larry | ||
| Bill Coburn Moderator Username: bill_coburn Post Number: 859 Registered: 4-2003 |
Well Daniel it seems hope did come over the horizon. Firstly Richard's practical approach and now some will be pleased to know that the new A3 scanner actually works. Not only that but we have scanned Section 24 of TSD4701 and put it on the site. Interestingly the five pages amounted to 5MB even with PDF so it would seem we have a large job ahead of us. Hope this helps. | ||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 693 Registered: 4-2003 |
Hi Bill, I think your problem is the PDF format are you using for the files? I suggest you might be unnecessarily increasing the file size as you appear to be using the standard format which is set to be compatible with earlier versions of Acrobat. If you use the following menu commands in Acrobat V7 or V8 when saving the file, you can reduce the file size appreciably: FILE\REDUCE FILE SIZE\MAKE COMPATIBLE WITH ACROBAT 7.0 and LATER I checked your last PDF file Index to Tee-One Topics to Issue 59 and this is saved for Acrobat V5.0 and later - as an experiment I converted this file to Acrobat V7 and later with the following results: As-Downloaded Acrobat V5.0+: 864Kb As-Downloaded reduced to Acrobat V7.0+: 494Kb As most users of Acrobat Reader would be encouraged to update their version regularly; I do not believe backwards compatibility should be a concern when saving the PDF files. I think the priority should be to scan at the highest resolution possible for quality reasons and use the compression capabilities of the latest Acrobat version to keep the file size manageable for dial-up users [not all of us have access to proper broadband yet thanks to our monopoly which controls the link from your local exchange to your home  ]. (Message edited by david_gore on 30 January 2007) | ||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 694 Registered: 4-2003 |
Hi Bill, Have now downloaded your file at 5.05Mb and you must have been a mind-reader as you saved it as an Acrobat 7 PDF version. Out of curiosity, I applied the FILE\REDUCE FILE SIZE\MAKE COMPATIBLE WITH ACROBAT 7.0 and LATER tool and the file size was reduced to 4.3Mb with a small loss of quality when viewd at 200X and 400X magnification. Wish I had access to an A3 scanner when doing Volume 5 of TSD2476 - will have to combine the A4 pages manually when I learn how to successfully use the Adobe layers command. | ||
| Daniel Depil New User Username: lbal20 Post Number: 3 Registered: 1-2007 |
First, many thanks to Bill for making his scanner work and also publishing the long awaited informations. I will chase a local garage that was servicing RR & B until 2001 for the VDO test device, maybe they let me have it for a weekend. Second, I will meet Richard this Friday for lunch and he will give me his spare control box and a bunch of tips and tricks to solve the problem. Up to now many thanks everyone helping me out and the results will be posted next week. Have a nice day Daniel | ||
| Bill Coburn Moderator Username: bill_coburn Post Number: 860 Registered: 4-2003 |
Daniel it is my pleasure and I am sure it is Richards's also. let me know when the advice comes through from your German friends! We would be most interested in your diagnosis and cure when it is sorted out. For David Gore. isn't thiis great that we can help people this way. The acrobat thing is sorted out I am told. The hit list at 2315 hrs at the last day of the month came to Log Analysis Tool -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ACCESSES BY PAGE Australian RR Forums [884] Technical Library [24] Why Me? [230] Tee-One Topics [29] Index_to_Tee_One_Topics_Issue_59 [53] Hydramatic Gearbox Workshop Manual TSD 2042 [27] Service Instructions for Rolls-Royce Cars (Pre-War)... [13] Pre SZ car production and modification lists [41] Bentley Mark VI Workshop Manual [16] Wiring_Diagrams_for_Immediate_Post_War_Cars [33] Parts_List_for_1980-1989_SZ_cars [128] Workshop_Manual_for_Silver_Shadows_Pior_to_Chassis_... [13] Wiring_Diagrams_for_Pre-War_Cars [6] Supplementary_Parts_List_for_2_Door_SZ_Cars [23] NZRR&BC Technical Index October 2000 [42] R-R and B Vehicles Produced and Survival Numbers [56] Crewe Genuine Parts List [17] Post-1980 Rolls-Royce Vehicle Identification Number ... [13] NSW Branch Library Catalogue [23] Updated Vehicle Indentification Number Codes [40] SZ Workshop_ Manuals_ for pre-20,000_ Chassis [4] Spare_ Parts_ List_ for_ E_ Series_ Silver_ Dawn [19] Spares_Schedules _for_Mark_VI_Bentleys [14] MkVI_Service_Bulletins_2nd_loading [48] SZ_Workshop manuals for 20,000 - 30,000 cars [17] Anti-lock_Brakes_and_Hydraulics_ post 20,000 series... [12] Spares_Schedule_for_R_Type_Bentleys [3] Spares_Schedules_for_Silver_Dawn_Chassis_A_to_D [42] Service_Bulletins_for_SilverCloud_and_S_Series_Cars... [15] O_Ring_Specifications_ 2nd_loading [29] Workshop_Manual_for_the_General_Motors_Turbo_400_Gea... [24] Workshop_Manual_for_Silver_Shadow_Hydramatic_Transmi... [4] Service_ Instructions_ for_ Pre-War_ Bentley_ Cars... [56] Workshop_ Manual_ for_ S_ Series_ cars,_ Phantom_ V_... [38] Service_Bulletins_for_S2_Cars [20] Demonstration_ of_ Pre-War_ Car_ Hub_ Removal [23] Parts_List_for_Pre_ Shadow_Hydramatic_ Transmissions... [31] Consolidated_Service_Manual_for_Immediate_Post-war_C... [31] Sales_Directory_1992_TSD4440 [30] TSD 4701 Section M electrical - speed control Which makes it all worthwhile I think you will agree. Cheers to you all. | ||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 696 Registered: 4-2003 |
Hi Bill, Yes, the response has made it all worthwhile and the benefits will go on as long as there are enthusiasts prepared to take the time, effort and above all allocate money to the preservation and use of a very special motor vehicle. When I first proposed the International Technical Archive on the US Forum several years ago; a steering committee was set up involving representatives from the UK, USA and Australian R-R Clubs of which I was a member. The only positive response came from the Federal Executive of the RROC[Australia] and the UK/USA Clubs actually vetoed their involvement in the project - their involvement in sharing their technical resources had been seen as the critical element in making the Archive viable. The Committee ceased to function once these vetoes were issued as we were concerned about the issue of copyright if inclusion of material from private contributors was used as an alternative. Thanks to Richard Treacy, yourself and your willing band of like-minded enthusiasts; you solved the copyright problem and more importantly have been able to access a "gold mine" of information. The comments on other Forums as well as this Forum expressing appreciation and gratitude for what you have done confirm the achievement of the original objective of helping custodians repair, restore, preserve and, above all, enjoy their R-R/B vehicles. No doubt we will eventually see a reversal of the negativity of the UK and US Clubs leading to their future participation - however I fear the worst-case scenario of their setting up competing archives using copyright/membership restrictions to control access to their information. Sit back and allow yourselves a few moments of personal applause for your achievements. | ||
| Neville Davies New User Username: nev_davies Post Number: 2 Registered: 9-2006 |
David. May I second your comments, several years ago I tried to buy a repair manual in the uk the rrec said that they wern't available for non-trade but suggested the rroc America who quoted $1900 US I finally purchased One from America for $750 US inc freight. Now thanks to people like Bill and co.I can look at other RR models knowing info is available. | ||
| Daniel Depil New User Username: lbal20 Post Number: 4 Registered: 1-2007 |
Update Richards spare box did either not work or the bug is somewhere else in the wiring. But we had a good lunch and tech talk last Friday and I was also given some tips about decreasing the oil consumption of my SC III. Next steps: As soon as the Spur is street legal (has to pass the bi yearly control) and the salt washed from the streets, we will try the same again with the working VDO unit from Richards car. Looking forward on this to second half of March. Thank you for all your support and help and every success will be posted here. Daniel | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 1154 Registered: 4-2003 |
Daniel, Sorry to hear about the cruise control. To shortcut diagnosis, the next step is to put your control unit into my car to see if it works. If so, we can have a good look ar your wiring and pinpoint the source of the fault much more quickly. If not, we can put my working control box into your car, again to minimise diagnosis in the first phase. In fact, this could all be good news as the fault may indeed be simpler than expected. I use the cruise control especially in the city to be sure that I don't get caught by a speed camera, so I do regard it as an essential feature. RT. |
