| Author | Message | ||
     Randy Roberson Prolific User Username: wascator Post Number: 180 Registered: 5-2009 |
Hi, does anyone know of a documented overhaul of a V-8? I have interest in knowing how to inspect during dismantling, and what is done during rebuilding. Any repair procedures particular to the V-8 would be especially interesting. I have see here and there, portions such as removing liners, etc, (thanks Bill C.) but I have not found a comprehensive article. Thanks! | ||
| Jan Forrest Grand Master Username: got_one Post Number: 538 Registered: 1-2008 |
Have look here | ||
| Randy Roberson Prolific User Username: wascator Post Number: 182 Registered: 5-2009 |
Great articles; thanks for sharing! | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 2999 Registered: 4-2003 |
Interesting article agreed, but always beware of what's going on as even David Chaundy points out. What has always bothered me is that he says that the hydraulic tappets are from GM. They are not. Ther are from Chrysler on early S2s. Originally they were stock Chrysler parts, but there were quite some nasty failures of Crewe V8 camshafts under warranty by 1960. GM and Chrysler were consulted on many issues, but the lifters are very much of Chrysler DNA and nothing from GM. Later on, Crewe finished and assembled their own hydraulic tappets with different oilway configurations from the Chrysler ones, and that may or may not been part of the solution to one of the several maladies of the first Crewe V8s.. As David Chaundy says for himself and implies for others, nobody will ever go so far as to recommend an alternative to a Crewe tappet/lifter given the massive consequences of a camshaft failure. RT. | ||
| Randy Roberson Prolific User Username: wascator Post Number: 183 Registered: 5-2009 |
I suppose one day the Phantom Engineering lads will consider repouring some V-8 blocks; can't imagine what one would cost, though! | ||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 1371 Registered: 4-2003 |
Hi Randy, Bentley Motors have been using their L410 V8 engine in recent models which is an upgraded high-output version of the original 6.75 litre R-R engine. The current Bentley Mulsanne is the most recent use of this engine. I suspect they may be using the original patterns for the blocks which were sand-cast if my memory is correct. The cost of new patterns/tooling would dictate use of the old patterns if at all possible. Wikipedia states Grainger and Worrall in Bridgnorth, Shropshire, England cast the engine blocks which are fully machined and partially assembled at the company's machining facility in Telford, Shropshire, England. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolls-Royce_%E2%80%93_Bentley_L_Series_V8_engine I would expect blocks may be available on enquiry from Crewe Genuine Parts: http://www.crewegenuineparts.com/ | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 3000 Registered: 4-2003 |
I really think that considering the use of an engine block from a different series of Crewe V8 is close to a transplant. Just look at a new Mulsanne motor and compare it to an S2. The head bolts may be in the same positions, but there are an awful lot of machined surfaces and connections which are oceans apart. The original 6.23L S2-S3 SC2-SC3 engine blocks are very hard to come by these days and there is virtually no availability of repairable secondhand ones. However, brand new blocks are not far off now. They are in the advanced stage of being manufactured in the UK as a joint project between the aftermarket spares suppliers and one of the most renowned manufacturers who manufactures blocks for Bugatti among others. Crewe has nothing to do with this project. Although the new blocks are not cheap, there are lots of very valuable S2 and S3 continentals in need, and I think that the initial production run will be 50. The differences between S2 and S3 blocks are minimal, and S2s benefit from an upgraded block anyhow. The original drawings are being used. Some slight changes may be made to improve parts of the block, but mindful of VW’s Arnage disasters those changes will be limited. The Arnage problems are probably not related to the block to be fair. When the motor was updated and renamed the SY for the Silver Shadow cars (consequently called the SY series) it was changed in so many ways that using an SY block in an S2 or S3 would surely be impractical. The heads alone are completely different, and it would be a headache to modify fittings and machinings all over the place to suit a swap. There are a few good secondhand SY blocks around still, so a remanufacture is unlikely unless MPW Coupé values quadruple. When it was stroked to 6.75, it was renamed the SYL. There are plenty of SYL blocks around, likewise SZ blocks although interchanging those blocks would be rather tricky as one club member found out the hard way. By the time the 20,000-series SZ cars came around in 1987, the motor had changed name to the L410, Longitudinal with a nominal 410 cubic inch capacity. In 1988 the crankcases were cross-bolted and these are really good powerplants, probably the best from Crewe ever. By the end of the SZ cars, key parts of motor assembly and compionent manufacturing had been outsourced. There is a big question mark on those later motors, but usually the failures are limited to blown head gaskets. When the Arnage Red Label popped up with its Turbo R motor revived and hurriedly fitted to replace the BMWmotor, the motor problems were similar, but usually a top end overhaul done once corrects it forever. Then the woes really started. Along came the twin turbo Arnage R and T. It was a really good example of how to take a great motor and ruin it reliability-wise. These are not niggles like blown head gaskets but major problems at low kilometres. Crewe blames it all on poor batches of materials, but the failures go on and on. RT. | ||
| Geoff Wootton Grand Master Username: dounraey Post Number: 369 Registered: 5-2012 |
The solution for one off or low volume manufacture of engine blocks and cylinder heads is already in sight. 3D printing. Already metal parts are being printed using metal powder/laser techniques and this is a technology in it's infancy. I suspect custom manufacture of low cost blocks for all classic and historic vehicles is only a few years away. | ||
| Omar M. Shams Grand Master Username: omar Post Number: 386 Registered: 4-2009 |
Are there warning bells against buying twin turbo Arnages? It is only a matter of time before we start buying these modles to play with. If they are fraught with reliablity issues then it is best to stay clear. | ||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 1372 Registered: 4-2003 |
Richard, I have no objection to a transplant if it results in a "road warrior" staying on the road for decades to come providing much joy and happiness for the owner. Much better to have an engine with a pedigree than a nondescript American V8!! Of course, it would be seen as an abomination by "garage queen" owners and concours judges. To each his own, we make our choices cognisant of the trade-offs involved. P.S. I understand the 410 designation is not derived from the engine capacity but is derived from the 4.10inch cylinder bore dimension. | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 3001 Registered: 4-2003 |
Thanks, David, I stand corrected. According to the good contributors at Wikipedia indeed even the 1959 S2 cars have a motor designated L410 for its 4.1" bore. The L410 became part of the engine number in the 1980s,and I had always assumed (and possibly read) that the 410 was the capacity (which is really about 412 cu.in.). Omar, I suggest that you ask for a quote for a set of tappets and a camshaft for any Arnage R or T. Crewe sells lots of these. 18 camshafts in the past two months for the ones with conventional lifters for a start. Even if you can be given a fairytale land price there is no stock available at the moment. Say no more. |
