| Author | Message | ||
     PETER DIXON Frequent User Username: petenlinid Post Number: 18 Registered: 8-2003 |
Hello all, I posted on this issue back in 2003 but am unable to find the original posting. There was a lot of good advice given at the time but in the end I had to acknowledge my limitations and the vehicle was taken to a Melbourne RR workshop on 2 separate occasions. The problem was one of intermittent but sudden total brake failure on both systems. The work listed below was undertaken . The vehicle has completed about 2,000 very gentle kilometers since the work was completed and 25% was the last return trip. The system is once again totally failing in exactly the same manner as previously. Basically whilst the vehicle is being driven the pressure seams to be OK. At least the lights are off, but under maneuvering conditions involving multiple light use of the foot brake e.g. 3-4 point turn, failure occurs. Work completed: 1.Overhauled accumulators valves and spheres. 2.Replaced accumulator and brake pump supply hoses. 3.Cleaned out brake fluid reservoir, replaced seals and sight glass and flushed through with new fluid. 4.Overhauled both low-pressure warning light switches. 5.Machine all brake discs and fit new brake pads. With my limited knowledge I guess I thought just about everything that could be done had been done, obviously not. Apart from the usual pump tests is there anything else I can do to work why I am still having this problem. Thanks in anticipation. Peter 1980 SSII SRH40250 | ||
| whunter Prolific User Username: whunter Post Number: 143 Registered: 10-2003 |
Pressure warning switches are not functioning. One way you can have total brake failure = hydraulic pumps going out = lack of pressure. If you are close enough to contact Bill Coburn, Please Do so soonest. My best guess is that one pump is dead, and the other is near dead. | ||
| PETER DIXON Frequent User Username: petenlinid Post Number: 19 Registered: 8-2003 |
Thank you for that WHUNTER, I will have to check but I think the chap that did the work for me checked and cleaned out the pumps at the same time. I think he said they had sludge in them??? Peter | ||
| Patrick Lockyer. Grand Master Username: pat_lockyer Post Number: 404 Registered: 9-2004 |
Peter,sounds as though you still have a restriction of fluid passing from the resovoir to the brake pumps if not then the pumps need to be checked for pumping volume of fluid. Are the brake warning lights comming on as the brakes fail. | ||
| PETER DIXON Frequent User Username: petenlinid Post Number: 20 Registered: 8-2003 |
Thanks Parick, Yes the warning light do come on but the left one takes a couple of touches more than the right. It also appears to happen after driving for a while when everything is good and hot. I have run pump test after a few minutes of starting from cold and running the engine for a while and get 20+ before failure. Once they have failed though they keep failing until the car has been left for a long period, say overnight and tests are run again. Cheers Peter | ||
| Bill Coburn Grand Master Username: bill_coburn Post Number: 392 Registered: 4-2003 |
Can I think aloud? For the brakes to work pressurised fluid has to get to the calipers. This comes from the brake actuation valves. The latter effectively keep the accumulator pressure up until they are opened. Is it possible they are defective and allowing the fluid to escape back to the reservoir without applying the brakes? Or, are the braided flexible lines from the accumulators to the chassis defective and not allowing pressure to get to the actuator valves. Is it possible the lining of these braided lines is coming adrift and acting as a valve? Above all I presume there is no overall loss of fluid. If this is so try this test. Ensure that your primary fluid levels are correct - 4 minutes running at least and car stationary on level ground. The miniscus's should just touch the full lines on each sight glass. Get the brakes to fail then immediately switch everything off, apply the hand brake engage Park and check the sight glasses. If the miniscus's are way over the line then the accumulators are exhausting somehow back to the reservoirs. If they are at a normal level, the brake pressure is not getting to the actuator valves. A blockage is almost inconceivable other than in the flexible line unless the metal supply line has been crushed during say an engine removal. It may also pay to take the actuator cover off under the driver's seat and see if there is evidence of work done there twisted pipes etc. If all that fails I would be removing the bonnet and getting a couple of high pressure gauges on copper brake lines and hooking them into the bleed valves of the accumulators and siting the gauges on top of the engine so that you can see them when you are driving. | ||
| Patrick Lockyer. Grand Master Username: pat_lockyer Post Number: 405 Registered: 9-2004 |
Peter.The one thing that is possible with my previous reply is that the brake hoses have not been replaced. They are the main source of the black debrie causeing blockage within the the system. As for the twenty reserve pumps,that sure is not enough and that points to the spheres being low on nitrogen pressure. Im thinking about Bills thoughts however your lights are going out and you are getting pressure but no reserve. | ||
| PETER DIXON Frequent User Username: petenlinid Post Number: 22 Registered: 8-2003 |
Thanks Bill, I will certainly give your recomendations a go. Cheers Peter | ||
| Gordon Norris Prolific User Username: crewes_missile Post Number: 151 Registered: 2-2005 |
Peter, All of the above are possible, but with the work that has been done, it sounds like the pumps are not generating enough pressure fast enough to keep up with demand ie/ as noted by whunter above, the pumps are probably in need of overhaul...just "cleaning them out" because they had sludge in them may not have been enough, and the last 2000km has seen them deteriorate further. I'd be checking the pump pressures and flow before anything else, and if marginal, get them overhauled. If they check out OK, then check the more obscure possibilities. Of course you realise that according to Murphy's law, it doesn't really matter what you check first..the LAST thing you try will always be the solution...  Cheers, GN. | ||
| Bill Coburn Grand Master Username: bill_coburn Post Number: 394 Registered: 4-2003 |
Once again we come back to using pressure gauges for diagnosis. If the pumps and accumulators were done the 'recovery' rate would certainly be checked. This is the rate at which the accumulators rebuild their pressure and is a product of the pump output. Whoever did your work would certainly have checked this. | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 711 Registered: 4-2003 |
This may sound high-handed. I apologise in advance, but please think it over. Given that you are not doing your own repairs, remote guessnosis is not helpful here. Brakes are the last things on which to take any risks. If your mechanic has returned the car twice in this condition, it's time to find a new mechanic immediately. No respected vehicle repairer would ever allow a vehicle out of his shop with faulty brakes once, let alone twice. Once the causes are known, it will be your decision to claim a refund or not. You guessed it: these situations anger me. RT. | ||
| William H. Trovinger II Prolific User Username: bill_trovinger Post Number: 198 Registered: 8-2003 |
What confuses me is with fresh rebuilt accumulators should he not be getting a lot more than “20+” pumps? Best regards, Bill | ||
| Richard Treacy Grand Master Username: richard_treacy Post Number: 713 Registered: 4-2003 |
Bill T, Agreed. I have my own interguessnosis of course, but why are both systems the same ? If a mechanic has failed to correct even one system in two visits, and has, knowingly or not, let the car go into service, he is not a suitable repairer I suggest. Look at Bill C.'s contrasting attitude. Through no fault of Bill's, the PVI he has taken on had been tampered with in the brake fluid department. He made sure that the car was not fully released for road use until he had sorted it out to his satisfaction. That involved an onerous multiple repair and research effort which exploded a few myths about the virtues of silicone brake fluid (DOT5). He took his responsibilities seriously. Peter's mechanic should have either done the same or given some sort of refund in my opinion. It's too late now, so a refund is the only option. Would you let anyone drive off with your knowing that the brakes are dodgy ? Even if you were a murderer, they may just crash into you... RT. | ||
| Patrick Lockyer. Grand Master Username: pat_lockyer Post Number: 406 Registered: 9-2004 |
Both Bills,yes my thoughts and that is why i go first for the brake hose inside rubber failure causeing restriction in the resovior internal filters giving a low volume of fluid to the pumps. Remove the top cover drain the fluid and check the filters,next the pressure test on the hydraulic accumulators, This will tell if the nitrogen pressure within the spheres is satisfactory. The pumps as far as i know carry on pumping when they are clapped out with noise and internal leaks up to the time they are replaced,do correct me if i am wrong. To do a brake overhaul without changing the hoses is bad practice. | ||
| Bill Coburn Grand Master Username: bill_coburn Post Number: 395 Registered: 4-2003 |
Richard in fairness to the repairer I understand from previous efforts that there was absolutely no indication of anything but satisfactory performance of the brakes when the car left the garage. Furthermore the incidence of failure the second time I understand occured 6 months after the repair. I am aware that Peter is 600K from the repairer and is caught with the 'Canberra' dilemma of whether to make the trip or not. This problem is surely quite out of the run-of-the-mill category so 600K or not in fairness to the repairer he can hardly be expected to drop tools and charge off to the car. As you know the tyranny of distance in this country especially when looking for service in remote areas is a very real factor in deciding whether to buy one of these cars. The owner in this case appears to have accepted this hazard and now has to work out the best way to overcome the problem. I like to think that we are all offering help which may be of some assistance but in the end the car will have to go back to the repairer. Whoever it is I am sure he would want it no other way. | ||
| PETER DIXON Frequent User Username: petenlinid Post Number: 23 Registered: 8-2003 |
Hello again and many thanks to you all for your advice. Firstly please allow me to clarify a couple of points. The reason for my posting was a desire to seek advice and information to determine if further work on the braking system could be undertaken by myself. It was not my intention to have a shot at the people who did the original work. How could I when as I stated the problem is intermittent? If it isn't happening when the car is being checked I guess it's pretty hard to detect the fault. Bill is correct - when the vehicle left the workshop the brakes were severely road tested with me as a passenger. They worked just fine. Bill is also correct that there was a gap of 6 months between the first and second visits, I was unable to make the trip to Melbourne at the time of re-occurrence, that was not long after returning from the first trip. With great care on selected roads the vehicle has been driven on a fortnightly basis for an average of 75ks. The brakes though never truly put to the test ever appeared to fail. Obviously because of the circumstances I did not place myself in situations where they were required in an emergency and in Mildura there are no long steep downhill roads to test them on. Previously I said that the brakes had passed a 20 pump test. This was the test carried out after running the engine from cold for 10 minutes, turning off the ignition and then pumping to failure. This morning I tested again after the vehicle had been standing overnight. I ran the engine for a 5 minutes, turned off and pumped to failure which was 26 & 28 pumps. I started the engine and ran it for another 5 minutes then applied the pump test with the engine running at idle, failure occurred at 55 and 65 pumps. Under normal starting and running conditions there is no obvious problem experienced. Failure appears to occur after the car has been driven for a period of time and when a few brake applications are made in a short time frame. I am confident the original repairer did all he could under the circumstances at the time, all I would like to do, if I can, is by a process of elimination fix the fault myself. Cheers Peter | ||
| Gordon Norris Prolific User Username: crewes_missile Post Number: 153 Registered: 2-2005 |
Peter, In line with Bill C's even-handed suggestion above, I think I would print out all the above suggestions, make sure you black out individual names, and return to the repairer who did the work and hand him a copy for consideration and see what his response is. I suspect he will want to find and fix the problem, and the cost will probably be nil, apart from any necessary parts. From all the suggestions here it looks to be a possibly involved job that may drive you crazy, (plus see note re Murphy's law above!)and the original repairer should be given the opportunity to resolve it. Also, appreciating you may not be able to get back to the repairer immediately, I would give him a ring to let him know what is happening, and explain you can't get the car back until whenever. At least the persisting/recurrent problem is then on his records. (and if well experienced he will probably subconsciously work through the problem in his head and have some possible solutions in mind by the time you can get the car there.) GN. | ||
| William H. Trovinger II Prolific User Username: bill_trovinger Post Number: 199 Registered: 8-2003 |
Richard; Sorry I mentioned the accumulators, I didn’t want to raise your blood pressure!  Peter; The pump down test is done after full pressure is obtained in the system but with the engine turn on and not running. Doing it this way 20 or so pumps is a minimum safety zone. Freshly rebuilt and recharged spheres should get much higher than twenty some. To all; I must admit I have not tried repetitive pumping with the engine idling. However, I would think that the pumps along with the pressure in the accumulators would keep the systems from failing altogether. Is this an incorrect assumption on my part? Peter’s, detailed explanation makes me really question the rebuild of the accumulators. Peter, I am not trying to attack your mechanic, I am just looking at possibilities. Is it possible that either the new parts used where defective or something similar? Now to really muck things up.  I have not done a lot to my brakes (hoses, reservoir cleaning and system flushes) as they are in good working order (knock on wood). Most of my hydraulic work has been on the leveling system. With that said and as a person who lives by numbers I really question the odds that both systems fail at the same point and time every time. Rather than looking at what is redundant in each system would the odds not suggest that one part common to both systems is causing the failure? Best regards, Bill | ||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 443 Registered: 4-2003 |
Just another thought, has the car always used RR363 fluid or has it been using DOT3/4 fluid? I would be hooking up the pressure gauges ASAP as my suspicions are the pumps are worn and unable to deliver enough fluid at pressure when fluid demand is frequent; if there is no demand; the system can recharge itself over time until the next heavy demand event occurs. The pumps cannot cope; the pressure drops and accumulator reserves decrease as a consequence giving the 20/30 pumps observed. The pressure gauges will tell if the pumps are worn or if the pressure relief valve on the accumulator has a mind of its own from time to time! | ||
| PETER DIXON Frequent User Username: petenlinid Post Number: 24 Registered: 8-2003 |
Thanks for the advice David that makes sense even to me and will be acted upon. I have only had the car for a couple of years. The invoices I have indicate that recommended hydraulic fluid has always been used. Cheers Peter | ||
| Gordon Norris Prolific User Username: crewes_missile Post Number: 155 Registered: 2-2005 |
David, Great minds think alike...see my first post in this thread 24 April above...  GN. | ||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 444 Registered: 4-2003 |
Hi Gordon, Yes I was aware of your post but wanted to highlight my guess that the pumps were worn rather than subject to blockages/restricted suction. If worn pumps were responsible; the cost of overhauling them may not have been justified. Peter, the use of DOT3/4 may have occurred before your service specialist assumed responsibility for your car - one question we may never get an answer to however if it is found the pumps are worn; my money will be on the use of DOT3/4 at some stage in the car's life. | ||
| PETER DIXON Frequent User Username: petenlinid Post Number: 25 Registered: 8-2003 |
Thanks David, I guess only time will tell but if I find anything out I will post it for sure. Cheers Peter | ||
| Dick Wood New User Username: woody Post Number: 8 Registered: 3-2005 |
Just a thought but perhaps the one way valve at the top of the #2 pump is leaking back a bit. If it leaks the pump will not be able to pump any fluid. Cold fluid may be thick enough to pump but once thinned out it could go back through the one way valve. | ||
| Bill Coburn Grand Master Username: bill_coburn Post Number: 403 Registered: 4-2003 |
A note on DOT4 brake fluid. Firstly I always use RR363 because the Factory says so and I find it easier not to have to think about whether it is the best of not. But of recent times I have been miffed to find a number of cars that have very successfully run on DOT4 without any trouble at all. In fact I cannot say that I have ever been shown clear evidence that using the stuff is any way deleterious. The noises etc are difficult to use as evidence since it is quite possible that the second bleeding after the fluid change got rid of trapped air that was there beforehand. I am not going to get into the argument as to which is best. I use it because it is allegedly designed for the job and to save a few bob my efforts at personal empirisis are just not worthwhile. BUT what I want to say is let us not rely on the doubts about DOT4 as the answer to all our hydraulic problems. Certainly if there have been problems, switch to 363 as step one and rule that off the list as a cause. | ||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 448 Registered: 4-2003 |
Bill, As you might recall I spent some time in the 1980's working for Atlas Copco who manufactured and sold a range of hydraulic mining equipment for above/below ground applications. Atlas Copco had particular expertise in the use of high-pressure [3000psi/200bar] hydraulics on this equipment and only used a special mineral hydraulic fluid manufactured for the Company by BP Australia because of the wear/fluid breakdown problems encountered in service. The use of alternative hydraulic fluids was strongly discouraged and prohibited if the equipment was subject to Service Contracts. When mineral fluids were finally banned underground due to their fire hazards after I left the Company; they were replaced by water-based mixtures which apparently have been a suitable replacement - before anyone starts thinking about using these in automotive applications; just remember mining equipment have recirculating systems and are always fitted with high-capacity hydraulic fluid coolers to control fluid temperatures. My experience gives me good reason to believe wear problems WILL occur in the hydraulic system of vehicles using fluids that do not include extreme pressure additives to protect those components subject to high contact loads and/or high surface speeds in service. | ||
| Bill Coburn Grand Master Username: bill_coburn Post Number: 404 Registered: 4-2003 |
Most interesting David and I am not even qualified to discuss it. It has occurred to me that given the limited market for 363 I cannot see the hazard of Castrol or Rolls-Royce coming out and telling us what is in it and why. We may get into an argument as to the effectiveness of a component or components but at least we could be assured that what is in there was put there for a reason and is not one of those much publicised practices of old of pulling out the Woolworths filter, putting it in a Rolls-Royce box and tripling the price! Meanwhile rest assured I shall use 363 just as I use RR coolant 'cause I am too stupid to know any different! | ||
| David Gore Moderator Username: david_gore Post Number: 449 Registered: 4-2003 |
Hi Bill, You could never be called stupid; there is one very important fact that protagonists of DOT3/DOT4 cannot explain. This is the fact that the total market for RR363 is so small in relative terms; there is no financial/marketing advantage for Castrol to repackage a standard fluid for this market - the corporate bean counters would eat the Marketing staff for breakfast if they ever tried this purely on ROI [Return on Investment] criteria. If they could sell several million litres of fluid a year then the Marketing staff might have a chance. RR363 is a "nuisance" product for Castrol and would be replaced by any alternative volume product if one existed as confirmed by their Technical Manager at the 2002 Federal Rally in Coffs Harbour - if my memory is correct; this confirmation forms part of the video record of the Coffs Harbour technical sessions held by the Sir Henry Royce Foundation. | ||
| Bill Coburn Grand Master Username: bill_coburn Post Number: 407 Registered: 4-2003 |
I agree David - to me it is a puzzlement! Meanwhile back in the garage, what has happened to Peter Dixon's hydraulics (and the ones in his car too). As they used to say in Operational Headquarters - SITREP please! | ||
| PETER DIXON Frequent User Username: petenlinid Post Number: 35 Registered: 8-2003 |
Hi all, nothing happening with the brakes just yet as I had to fix the cooling system before I can make the trip to the brake fixer type person. That should happen in the next month I hope. Completed fitting a new radiator today. Having large hands I found it much more difficult to put it back than it was to take out. You Bill will appreciate that as I have recently increased my herd of the RR of dogs, Cavalier King Charles Spaniels, by 3, now 12 week old, even the car must occasionally take second place. Cheers Peter | ||
| Bill Coburn Grand Master Username: bill_coburn Post Number: 408 Registered: 4-2003 |
And rightly so Peter. Tuppence is not over keen on car travel but lies near me when ever I am in the garage supervising no doubt.! | ||
| John Shostrom New User Username: silvawraith2 Post Number: 6 Registered: 4-2005 |
This discussion serves to illustrate why this Forum is so wonderful - and necessary. For what it's worth, I can point out that yes, pressurised fluid must reach the various points in the system. The problem could be brake pumps, but if the lines haven't been replaced - or thoroughly checked - I would certainly do that or have it done. This is a serious issue of safety to be sure. Recently, on my Silver Wraith II, I was losing fluid. And then, the #2 brake pressure light would glow. I topped up, drove the car for test, and the next morning, the same thing. I then decided to be even more diligent than ever in my search for a cure. It turned out that the braided hoses going into and out of the reservoir were "sweating" on the undersides, where it would not be at first apparent to the eyes. I found this malady by accident, whilst running my hands along those lines. Engine heat can cause early deterioration of such components (witness, the invisible cracks in spark plug wires). I had replaced all the other brake lines, both rubber and steel, and so fitted new ones to the accumulator. Topped up the system, bled the brakes and now all is fine. Good luck, and keep us informed as to how its going - we are all here to help. Kind regards from Hong Kong. | ||
| Phil Black Unregistered guest Posted From: 210.50.40.60 |
Soon I will be ready to fit my new rubber brake hoses after I bleed out the old fluid which might not be the right type as I think this car came from Hong Kong or maybe Japan. Before I fit the new hoses and free the front caliper pistons can I flush the lines out with methel. spirits or will this damage the two pressure pumps even if I only run the engine for say half an hour to fully clean out the whole system? Thanks (Message approved by david_gore) | ||
| Bill Coburn Grand Master Username: bill_coburn Post Number: 412 Registered: 4-2003 |
Phil No you will damage something and it won't get that much sludge out of the system. As an initial flush use the correct RR363 or if you wish DOT4 and put at least a gallon of the stuff through the system at full pressure. Then remove and open the calipers clean them out and re seal them including the seal between the two halves. Pull the outer covers off the pumps and clean those refit with new seals including the one for the low pressure input pipe. Replace the latter. Remove all the flexible lines and flush the metal lines out with metho under pressure. Fit the new hoses and bleed and flush the whole system. Re-flush the system every three months for a year and all should be well. | ||
| Phil Black Unregistered guest Posted From: 210.50.218.66 |
Thanks for that info. I just heard that an extra filter from a later Shadow or Silver Spirit model can be fitted somewhere in the back for more filtering. Would it be a good idea to do this after I get as much old fluid and stuff out as I can? (Message approved by david_gore) | ||
| Patrick Lockyer. Grand Master Username: pat_lockyer Post Number: 455 Registered: 9-2004 |
Phil black what rubbish you make up. | ||
| Rodney Peach Frequent User Username: rodney Post Number: 60 Registered: 12-2003 |
Hi All, I have had spirit 1980 stood up for 2 years ,now when i push brake pedal system 1 lights up take foot off goes out what is it sphere? Regards To all | ||
| Brian Vogel Frequent User Username: guyslp Post Number: 54 Registered: 6-2009 |
Rodney, That would be my first guess. It seems to me that your nitrogen charge is gone and the sphere is filled with fluid. You get up to pressure before you need to release any for braking but the moment you open up the system to send fluid to the brakes your pressure falls below where it should be. However, since you're talking about a Silver Spirit you might want to pose this question on the Silver Spirit, Spur & Bentley Derivatives technical forum. Yours is a mineral oil system and while there are substantial similarities to the older RR363 system as far as how they work there are differences as well. | ||
| PETER DIXON Frequent User Username: petenlinid Post Number: 50 Registered: 8-2003 |
My, how time does fly, six years in fact since I last posted on this forum. It took me around another 18 months before I could take the car to be worked on again. In that time she lived under dust sheets in the garage, was driven cautiously on country lanes for 10kilometres once a month. In 2007 when further work was eventually undertaken it was as follows "connect gauge to car and test system, found pressure recovery too slow. Dismantled pumps and inspected, found no visible faults, rebuild with new seal kits and second hand pump pistons an barrels. Bleed system and tested pressure (drove car for several days) tested OK. Removed gauge and tested further". The car made the 600 kilometres trip home fine but in the whole trip the brakes would only be used a few times. Three days later, first time out of the garage the pressure on cylinder one completely failed all by its little old self and and the second failed after 5-6 pumps on the pedal with the engine still idling. Revving the motor pressures them up again though I don't know by how much. Since then it has had the little trips I mentioned the brakes fail most times at some point particularly when I am light braking as I nudge it into the garage. Guess I had pretty much given up on the old girl, certainly lost all confidence in driving her. Frequently threaten to get rid of her but every time I lift the dust sheets, open the door and smell the leather I just bring myself to do it. Couldn't really sell her anyway not with dodgy brakes. I am recently retired and will probably attempt to fix her up in the near future. That is my bit of an update. Thanks to all who have shown interest in my problem in the past. I apologise for not posting sooner. Peter. | ||
| Hubert Kelly New User Username: h_kelly Post Number: 4 Registered: 3-2012 |
Peter, im no expert but having read the above, is it possible the accumulator spheres just aint holding pressure?. Reason I question the spheres, one you reconditioned the accumulator valve and secondly you reconditioned both pumps?. When the vehicle was driven for three days you had no problems but after sitting for three days the problem returns. Is it possible the accumulator spheres are the sole problem? If they have been pressurized while driving one might assume, they should remain at correct psi, while inactive?. | ||
| Omar M. Shams Prolific User Username: omar Post Number: 240 Registered: 4-2009 |
Dear Peter, I would like to offer my take on your problem. Your garage is crap mate. Your spheres were never really overhauled properly nor had they held nitrogen pressure like they should have done. That has been only part of your problems. The main issue you have is that your hydraulic system is not as clean as it should be and the pumps are unable to keep the system pressurised. If you get the job done properly you need not touch any of it again for at least two years. Take the pumps and accumulators off and get them overhauled properly - either yourself or through a qualified and experienced mechanic who knows what he or she is doing. If any hoses look at all dodgy - change them. Better still - for the relative cost of these - change them all. open the reservoir and give that a good clean. Put everything back and then bleed the system thoroughly. The end result will be a car that will astonish you - one that will work every time for at least two years - and you will never want to part with her again. There is nothing more rewarding than driving one of these cars with crappy brakes and then driving the same car when the hydraulics are almost perfect. Very rewarding indeed. Good luck Omar | ||
| Jan Forrest Grand Master Username: got_one Post Number: 328 Registered: 1-2008 |
This bit worries me "Dismantled pumps and inspected, found no visible faults, rebuild with new seal kits and second hand pump pistons an barrels." 1) The pumps do not contain any seals as the parts are individually engineered to fit, which means that they aren't even interchangeable on the same car. 2) Pistons and barrels are virtually all there is to the pumps, so why fit used units if you've replaced the (non-existant) seals? 3) If there were "no visible faults" why did they need parts replacing? It seems to me that this garage has seen you on your hands & knees and taken advantage of your position to ream you out good and proper! Certainly, unless there's a hydraulic leak, the nitrogen pressure in the accumulators should be good for several dozen uses of the brakes. Meanwhile the pressure should rise from dead flat to full in just a few seconds. I'm afraid that you need to start again with a better garage. | ||
| Brian Vogel Frequent User Username: guyslp Post Number: 65 Registered: 6-2009 |
Jan, Not that I don't think that your last paragraph isn't correct, but the brake pumps absolutely do contain seals, just not at the pistons/barrels. It would be hard to explain kit: - RH2438 - Seal Kit, Brake Pump, which has 7 O-rings in it or - UE36516 - O-ring, brake pump otherwise. I absolutely agree that I found the comment about replacing something that had "no visible faults" with second-hand items as highly suspect. |
