| Author | Message | ||
     Stefan Morley Experienced User Username: myupctoys Post Number: 27 Registered: 7-2009 |
Hi, I'm trying to figure out if I have the right pressure regulator fitted. I have an Early 89 car, for all intents and purposes its 88 with the KE2 Bosch system. I have a fuel pressure regulator Bosch part number stamped on the case 0438 161 006. I tried to do searches on it and came up with a blank. But I did come up with 0438 161 013 which fits to later Turbo R's and Merc 560's and a lot more available. I approached Bosch, they suggest the 006 was supposed to be fitted to a Mulsanne 86>>90 and the 013 to a Turbo R 91 >> 93. So I still dont know what is supposed to be fitted and wonder if someone in the past put the wrong part on. BTW for interests sake the parts list suggest this is a Fuel Damper, not the Regulator it is. Bit like the TPS is listed as a Throttle position Pot when in fact it is a switch. Can someone check their Turbo R for the bosch part number stamped on the pressure regulator to sort it out. It is in the engine bay near the EHA next to the fuel distributor. Has three metal pipe connections for fuel and one breather pipe going to atmosphere on the top. The number is stamped on the case. Thanks in advance. Stefan | ||
| Stefan Morley Experienced User Username: myupctoys Post Number: 28 Registered: 7-2009 |
Hi, Just had an update from Bosch a couple of minutes ago. They suggest the 0438 161 013 is the correct part. They also suggest the 006 and 013 is not interchangeable. Physically I can vouch it is, but presumably pressure wise it isnt. Might account for my problem at 2500rpm dead point posted elsewhere. Still would like to know excatly what others have fitted to confirm Bosch are telling me the right story. Cheers Stefan | ||
| Stefan Morley Experienced User Username: myupctoys Post Number: 29 Registered: 7-2009 |
Hi, Thing about the 006 regulator fitted. It looks origional. Doesnt look like its been changed since new. If it had the metal would look slighly newer than other parts. Wonder if Rolls Royce had a sourcing problem at some stage and a number of cars came out with the wrong regulator, thinking near enough was close enough. Makes me wonder if the car ever quite did what it was supposed to. Given that other people with Turbo R's either go "wow" or turn around and think what is the fuss. Maybe this is it. Maybe I'm streching things. Both the 006 and 013 look exactly the same externally. BTW the 013 is alos fitted to Merc 560s so they should be reasonably available unlike the 006 which only went on Rolls Royce. My understanding is the fuel regulator forces a fixed pressure irrepsective of fuel volume into the fuel distributor. This fixed pressure hydrolically acts against the meter vane in the throttle body. This adjusted pressure from the vane is fed to the injectors. If the regulator pressure was low (and I dont know if it is) then the vane would move a lot further for a given volume of air meaning the pot to the Fuel ECU would reach max a lot earlier than it was supposed to. What does the Fuel ECU do in response to this and what interactions are there with the Boost ECU is up to conjecture but logically this isnt the way things should be. Just trying to think outside the box. Getting a quote locally. Available in the states for 470 or there abouts. Be nice to get something a bit more reasonable. Cheers Stefan | ||
| Stefan Morley Experienced User Username: myupctoys Post Number: 30 Registered: 7-2009 |
Hi, Bosch came back to me. The 006 and 013 are the same pressure and flow spec. There are plunger, spring and internal sealing improvements in the 013. Maybe the reasons for the change are why my 006 may not be functioning corretly any longer. Will measure the pressure (should be 82.6psi >> 85.5psi) based on the KE2 part of the RR manual. Stefan | ||
| Stefan Morley Experienced User Username: myupctoys Post Number: 31 Registered: 7-2009 |
Hi, Busy Day. Measured the primary pressure 85psi, and lower chamber pressure 78psi. Measurement taken at idle and at 2500 rpm. Pressure in both cases remained stationary. Perfect. That works. Now I'm still lost. Manifold pressure next. So the 006 is fine. But the 013 is a better replacement if anyone ever needs to. Cheers Stefan | ||
| Dr. Omar M. Shams Experienced User Username: omar Post Number: 43 Registered: 4-2009 |
Stefan, Mine is a 90 Turbo R built to Japanese specs. I have a Bosch Fuel Pressure Regulator part number 0438161013 installed. The part as you say is also shared with Mercedes Benz 560, 500 etc series. I replaced mine due to the old one leaking fuel. Thanks Omar | ||
| Stefan Morley Experienced User Username: myupctoys Post Number: 32 Registered: 7-2009 |
Hi Omar, Does your car have the Motronic system? Mine also built to Japenese spec Early 89, effectively 88 with the KE2-Jetronic setup. Also discovered what I thought was an O2 sensor on the back of the catalytic converter is actually a thermocouple required of the japanese spec. My car doesnt have the O2 sensor but does have a catlytitic converter. Just trying to think about common threads between symptoms. Stefan | ||
| Dr. Omar M. Shams Experienced User Username: omar Post Number: 44 Registered: 4-2009 |
 Stefan, I have not seen my Turbo RL for so long that I have almost forgotten that I own it. I hope to get it back sometime this week though. I have attached an image of the engine bay for you to see the set-up. You tell me!!! what kind of fuel injection have I got?? | ||
| Stefan Morley Experienced User Username: myupctoys Post Number: 38 Registered: 7-2009 |
Omar, With my car I have a fuel ECU, and an Ignition ECU collectively known as the KE2-Jetronic. The two ECUs are mounted side by side just above the acellerator and brake pedals. I am not sure but think yours might have the Motronic system which combines the two systems into one. Not totally sure where its mounted in those cars. Engine bay wise the there arent too many clues. Think yours would have two engine position sensors, otherwsie most of the external parts look very similar to the two. The Motronic description in the manual is a lot better. I think the ECU for the Motronic is in the RHS of the engine bay, either near the ignition coils or near the shock/sprint mount. Stefan | ||
| Stefan Morley Experienced User Username: myupctoys Post Number: 40 Registered: 7-2009 |
Omar, Its occurred to me. My car idles beautifully, heaps of power down low, emissions passed, on the flat the car still acellerates beyond 2500, just with a lot less gusto that from idle to 2500. Up a hill fine to 2500 then not much more. I have found a couple of little issues and remedied them but none the root cause of the issue I'm trying to resolve. Ive tested current as per the manual to the EHA on the full load map and that is the first thing that doesnt follow excatly. I have the boost controller open the wastegate solanoid at about 2150 and noticeable reduction in power at 2500 rpm. Presumably the pressure reached to to physically open the wastegate after the solanoid has opened. (I have also done tests totally disabling the wastegate and dump valve but thats a separate story with the same net result in performance just greater boost) Both our cars are japenese spec. There are a couple of things known about the japenese spec and they are not related to performance just details. I wonder if there are some things that arent widely known related to import requirmetns into the japanese market. Like boost controllers opening wastegate early, and limiting power under boost conditions etc etc. Our symptoms are similar irrespective of the year of release and which controller we have. Udo on this forum also has a car with similar symptoms. I think his is a Motroninc like yours. I dont know the origion of his car. Its a long straw but........ Maybe the engine management systems are limited for japanese import requirements. Stefan | ||
| Stefan Morley Experienced User Username: myupctoys Post Number: 41 Registered: 7-2009 |
Omar, Not sure how to get to the bottom of that question. Would RR be happy about releasing that sort of info..... maybe not, even if they kept track of it. The easiest way of answering that question is knowing a car that was definetly for the japanese market and didnt demonstrate our symptoms, and it wasnt just a one off. The plus is our engines will be the least stressed engines there are. Some consellation. Stefan | ||
| James Feller Frequent User Username: james_feller Post Number: 70 Registered: 5-2008 |
Hi Stefan, I have just read the above. I couldn't help myslef I had to go and have a look at my fuel head to check this for you. My Turbo is a build June 89 and an orginal Aussie delivered car to Yorks in Oct 89. the fuel meter head number on mine is 0438 121 079.... mine does have K Motronic digital FI. Cheers j | ||
| Stefan Morley Frequent User Username: myupctoys Post Number: 56 Registered: 7-2009 |
Hi James, If my car had been a couple of months younger it would have had the motronic as well. Fine line. Thats why I say my car is an 88 to clarify the KE2-Jetronic. Dont know the differences with your fuel regulator. But if it aint broke....... :-) Mine came up fine, but nice to know what the differences are and that there is an alternate. Cheers Stefan |
